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[Manni]

I use BD Menus for BD and UHD blurays (all my titles are ripped 1:1 from the original disks to BD folders) and until MC29 most of my titles played menus fine, with the very occasional hickup.

With MC31 (including latest build 43), I'm getting "frozen" menus on an empty screen, especially with recent Paramount titles (so it might have to do more with this than with the MC version). If I right click and switch to title, the main title plays, but of course that defeats the point of using menus.

Some examples:

Deep Impact (4K UHD Bluray UK): plays the Paramount intro then stuck on blue screen. Right Click Menu does nothing.
The Truman Show (4K UHD Bluray UK): plays the Paramount intro then stuck on blue screen. Right Click Menu does nothing.
The Italian Job (2003) (4K UHD Bluray UK): plays the Paramount intro then stuck on blue screen. Right Click Menu does nothing.
Double Jeopardy (4K UHD Bluray UK): plays the Paramount intro then stuck on blue screen. Right Click Menu does nothing.

Not all recent Paramount releases have this issue, for example the menu of Scream VI plays fine.

All these titles play the menu fine with both my Oppo 203 and my Dune Pro Vision Solo 4K, so not a bad rip issue. However, these Paramount titles display a series of warnings in various languages about equipment with the Oppo or the Dune. I have to press the menu button on the remote to get to the menu.

Happy to provide a copy of the structure of the blurays (without the main movie content) if you don't have them and would like to try to reproduce the issue. Please provide a way to do this privately if needed.

[Manni]

Two more examples:

48 Hours (4K UHD Bluray UK): plays the Paramount intro then stuck on language choice blue screen. Right Click Menu does nothing.
Another 48 Hours (4K UHD Bluray UK): plays the Paramount intro then stuck on language choice blue screen. Right Click Menu does nothing.
Part of the language menu is visible on these, it looks like the attached screenshot.

[JimH]

Are you using AnyDVD?  Or?

[Manni]

Are you using AnyDVD?  Or?

I use various tools depending on which one supports each title.

It's irrelevant anyway, given that all these rips play fine with two different players (Oppo and Dune), as reported. It's clearly a JRiver issue with recent Paramount 4K UHD Bluray titles.

Added Double Jeopardy to list in the first post.

[JimH]

Let's keep an open mind until we find out the cause.

You've probably considered antivirus and ruled that out.

[Hendrik]

We can't guarantee playback of all Blu-ray menus. Many of them employ copy-protections or other safeguards that break access in various ways. Some of those can be by-passed, some cannot. Other players may behave differently in presence of those.

I'll try to look at some of those, but as said above, there are no guarantees. And it might just not work.

[JimH]

I use various tools depending on which one supports each title.

Please update those tools.  It might help Hendrik if you spelled out what you use.

[Manni]

We can't guarantee playback of all Blu-ray menus. Many of them employ copy-protections or other safeguards that break access in various ways. Some of those can be by-passed, some cannot. Other players may behave differently in presence of those.

I'll try to look at some of those, but as said above, there are no guarantees. And it might just not work.

As I said, I'm not expecting jriver to play all menus, but usually it does a very good job and only fails rarely.

I'm only reporting an issue that affects most (but not all) recent Paramount UHD Bluray titles. It would be great if you could take a look, but if you don't care you can also leave it that way. For me, menus support is one of the best things about JRiver, so it's an important feature, but I'm sure many users don't use menus so will never notice.

When I refer to other players, I'm referring to both UHD Alliance licensed players (Oppo 203) and non-UHD Alliance licensed players (Dune Pro Vision Solo 4K). This is to confirm that there is nothing wrong with the rip itself, and that both licensed and non-licensed players are able to play the very same rips from these titles. Almost no title fails with the Oppo (as it's licensed), but some titles have minor issues with the Dune. I also report it to them when it's more than a single title (they have cosmetic issues with some Universal menus, JRiver doesn't). JRiver can't play the recent Paramount titles, Dune can. Oppo plays them all without a glich (as it's licensed).

[Manni]

Please update those tools.  It might help Hendrik if you spelled out what you use.

I always use the latest version of each tool (fox, fab and makemkv). For these titles, I used the fox, but again it's not relevant as these rips play fine with the Dune and the Oppo.

As I said, my rips are 1:1 (though they are BD folders, not ISO, so not as 1:1 as they could be I guess). I don't remove anything, which can be an issue with some tools.

[JimH]

I always use the latest version of each tool (fox, fab and makemkv). For these titles, I used the fox, but again it's not relevant as these rips play fine with the Dune and the Oppo.

That software works with something else does not prove or disprove anything.  That's how bugs are.  They can be triggered by a certain set of circumstances.

So be patient and don't jump to conclusions.

[JimH]

Fox == AnyDVD ?

[Manni]

Fox == AnyDVD ?

Yes.

[Manni]

That software works with something else does not prove or disprove anything.  That's how bugs are.  They can be triggered by a certain set of circumstances.

So be patient and don't jump to conclusions.

I'm not jumping to conclusions, I'm only reporting that the same 1:1 BD folders rips plays fine with two different hardware players, but don't play with JRiver MC.
I'll let Hendrik conclude if something could/should be done so that JRiver MC supports these titles too, or not.
I've offered to provide the disk structure of one of these titles in order to help reproduce the issue, if Hendrik doesn't have access to any of the recent Paramount 4K UHD titles I've listed.
Anyone with the titles listed above or any recent paramount 4K UHD bluray title can also try to reproduce the issue (play them with JRiver and bluray menus enabled) and report their results, as well as the tool used to rip their title if it's not AnyDVD. That way you might get more data points if needed.
To clarify, I'm not asking for any help or any immediate resolution. I've reported an issue and am happy to help if needed, when/if the developer decides to look into this. That's all.
For now, I'm perfectly happy with Hendrik's reply.

[TheShoe]

MakeMKV produces a true 1:1 rip.

AnyDVD will but that depends on the options you have selected. For example. it can modify the rip to attempt to bypass ads (does not always work), and certain key functions that might be disabled by the java code on the disc.

I find lately that when you do that, it can be problematic in some cases.

I don't use AnyDVD except for Lionsgate titles, where playlist obfuscation is often a problem.

Try a rip that does not work, with MakeMKV and see if it makes any difference.

Also - some BD-J titles can take a little time to start up.  I've noticed on recent titles if I am patient, it'll eventually load.

Finally - I do full rips for two purposes:  1 - complete backup; 2 - easier to watch the special features.  In general, I always create a particle in Media Center to the correct MPLS file and playback from that.  It skips all the ads, jumps right to the feature, and if you select the correct playlist, bypasses the playlist obfuscation Lionsgate uses and it supports seamless branching which a straight m2ts playback will not.  And you don't need to create an MKV, consuming significantly more space.

Just some thoughts...  I'll give a couple of your titles a try and report back my experience

[Manni]

MakeMKV produces a true 1:1 rip.

AnyDVD will but that depends on the options you have selected. For example. it can modify the rip to attempt to bypass ads (does not always work), and certain key functions that might be disabled by the java code on the disc.

I find lately that when you do that, it can be problematic in some cases.

I don't use AnyDVD except for Lionsgate titles, where playlist obfuscation is often a problem.

Try a rip that does not work, with MakeMKV and see if it makes any difference.

Also - some BD-J titles can take a little time to start up.  I've noticed on recent titles if I am patient, it'll eventually load.

Finally - I do full rips for two purposes:  1 - complete backup; 2 - easier to watch the special features.  In general, I always create a particle in Media Center to the correct MPLS file and playback from that.  It skips all the ads, jumps right to the feature, and if you select the correct playlist, bypasses the playlist obfuscation Lionsgate uses and it supports seamless branching which a straight m2ts playback will not.  And you don't need to create an MKV, consuming significantly more space.

Just some thoughts...  I'll give a couple of your titles a try and report back my experience

Thanks.  I am not removing anything from the rips when using AnyDVD.

I don't use MC as a front end, only as an external player from CMC, and we all have various reasons for doing things the way we do.

I want menus because I have no time to waste to identify the correct playlist, which often doesn't select automatically the correct forced subtitles based on the language chosen through the menus. I want all the extras and I don't mind the ads, watching them takes less time that trying to do it any other way. I rip 1:1 and watch the film as it was intended, with the correct forced subs and access to all the extras.

It would be great if you could try at least one of the titles I listed and report back on the outcome, with the tool used to rip it/them. Thanks!

[TheShoe]

I can confirm that both The Truman Show (UHD) and Double Jeopardy (UHD) exhibit the problems you are seeing on the latest MC 31 build 43 release.

Will check my Dune 4K Max Vision later.

[Manni]

I can confirm that both The Truman Show (UHD) and Double Jeopardy (UHD) exhibit the problems you are seeing on the latest MC 31 build 43 release.

Will check my Dune 4K Max Vision later.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to confirm. Please could you let us know which tool you used to rip these? I don’t think it’s relevant here but it would help to definitely discard the tool as a possible cause if you didn’t use AnyDVD. Also are your disks also from the UK? Most UHD Blu-ray titles use the same discs in all territories as they don’t have a region code, but just to have all the info.

[TheShoe]

For these two I used AnyDVD HD 8.6.5.0

-

They are not from the UK - both were domestic US orders.

I'm going to re-rip one using MakeMKV to see if there is any difference.  For AnyDVD, I checked the boxes to skip ads and to bypass lock-out features

[Manni]

For these two I used AnyDVD HD 8.6.5.0

-

They are not from the UK - both were domestic US orders.

I'm going to re-rip one using MakeMKV to see if there is any difference.  For AnyDVD, I checked the boxes to skip ads and to bypass lock-out features

Thanks for this. I don’t check any boxes with AnyDVD. I’ll be surprised if you get a different result with makemkv, but it’s always a possibility, so it would be good to know for sure.

[TheShoe]

MakeMKV made no difference.  Still freezes after the Paramount logo, on a blue screen (which in the pasts for Paramount movies, is usually a language selection screen for me).

MakeMKV is v1.17.4 (Windows)

[Manni]

MakeMKV made no difference.  Still freezes after the Paramount logo, on a blue screen (which in the pasts for Paramount movies, is usually a language selection screen for me).

MakeMKV is v1.17.4 (Windows)

Thanks a lot for this confirmation, that's what I was expecting.
This is definitely the language selection screen, as shown in the two "48H" movies, that partially show the language selection menu (slightly different behaviour as the screen is not just the full blue background, but still recent Paramount 4K UHD bluray release).

Let's hope that Hendrick can identify the issue and fix. I'm happy to provide the structure of one of the titles for him to look at and reproduce if he doesn't have access to any of the titles in the list.

[Manni]

Hi Hendrik,

I just wanted to know if you had a chance to look at this. There are more and more Paramount titles that have this issue: Election, Ghost, etc.

Please let me know if you need anything from me.

Cheers!

[Manni]

I forgot to say that it was still an issue in MC33. Could we move the thread to the MC33 forum, or should I open a new thread there? Thanks!

EDIT: Also the issue is the same if you make a 1:1 ISO copy (using AnyDVD HD or xReveal) or even play the original disc, so DEFINITELY NOT a ripping/third-party software issue, given that the same rips play fine with other players supporting full menus (Dune HD players, Oppo 203 clone, etc).

[Manni]

As I didn't hear back, I created a new thread in the MC33 forum, with a link to this one, so please add any content to the new thread so that everything is in one place.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,140712.msg975922.html#msg975922

Mods, please could you lock this thread so that new replies go to the new thread? Thanks!