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Author Topic: Cloudplay Ideas  (Read 883 times)

soundgals

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Cloudplay Ideas
« on: August 27, 2023, 02:52:15 pm »

Until today, I hadn’t taken CloudPlay too seriously. I tended to view it as a poor substitute for integration of the established streaming services. This afternoon though, I decided to give it a try and have been very pleasantly surprised. As a Jazz fan I’m finding the quality of the selections from contributors, coupled with the lossless flac files, quite compelling.

Keeping always in mind the need to stay legal; it’s my understaning that uploads of complete Albums/Artists are off the table; fair enough. With that in mind though, I see enormous further potential in CloudPlay.

Here are a couple of ideas I’d like to see implemented to make CloudPlay even better.

1/ As this feature consists of selections from users own music library, I’m sure there must be many “out of print” selections out there, and selections that may still be available for purchase on physical media; but not available on any other streaming service. I would like users who upload their playlists to be able to flag these in some way. Perhaps “Out of Print” and/or “Available only from CloudPlay” could be added as new categories. In some cases “Out of Print” albums might not be subject to the same legal contraints, so could perhaps be uploaded in their entirety?

2/ How about Vinyl rips? Again some real gems could be uploaded which are not to be found anywhere else. Such uploads should include as much detail as possible as to how the vinyl was ripped, and the equipment used. Vinyl rips should be a separate category.

3/ There was a post asking about the possibility of Multi-Channel DSD on CloudPlay and I understand why that would not be technically possible at this time. Multi-Channel flac though, could surely be possible. These should be placed in a seperate category as more technically demanding for streaming. Once streamed though, J River could easily handle any down-mixing for users who don’t have the necessary multi-channel support. This may seem like a niche; but with Apple’s push for Spatial Audio and a growing library in Dolby Atmos, as well as Tidal’s support for Sony’s 360 Reality format; Amazon music; etc. this is quickly growing beyond a niche. Qobuz have 20 or so albums in full 5.1 Multi-channel and streaming as high as 192khz on all 6 channels. I believe support for Multi-channel/Quadraphonic flac streams on Cloudplay would be a terrific addition.

Cloud sourced music has enormous potential and the way I see it, we’re just at the beginning!
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JimH

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Re: Cloudplay Ideas
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2023, 01:05:57 am »

Thanks for taking a look and for the ideas.  I thought it might be a generally useful thread, so I split it from the main thread.

Multichannel FLAC should work now.  You could try it.  User kr4 has talked about it here.

Multichannel DSD doesn't seem important enough at the moment. 

There is some general interest in Atmos audio (without video) but it's just starting, and I don't know if we support it in Cloudplay.  We probably should.

For now, out of print playlists could be collected in a thread like this one:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,121350.0.html
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soundgals

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Re: Cloudplay Ideas
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2023, 01:25:01 am »

You're welcome. It makes sense to split this off.

Great to hear Multi-Channel flac are now working. Will give it a try.

Supporting Atmos would also be great. If you decide to, it should also be lossless. Apple spatial audio is, of course, limited to lossy Dolby Digital, which doesn't allow us to fully appreciate all the releases that are available.

Some significant releases are increasingly being put out on Blu-Ray discs; but only a small percentage compared to those available via Apple's spatial.
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mlknez

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Re: Cloudplay Ideas
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2023, 11:39:16 am »

I really enjoy multichannel and would be happy for JRiver Cloudplay to support:

Multi-channel dsd audio

Atmos audio

Is cloudplay limited due to file size, streaming bandwidth or techical feasibility?
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soundgals

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Re: Cloudplay Ideas
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2023, 12:01:55 pm »

Well, as Jim pointed out; Multichannel flac is now supported.

As far as DSD is concerned, not everyone is using a DAC that supports it, whereas all DACs support PCM.

So those people end up converting any DSD they have to pcm anyway, either in real-time via playback software, or by creating PCM versions offline.

The latter could easily be carried out by anyone prior to uploading DSD originating content to CloudPlay in flac format.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a fan of DSD myself; but pre-conversion to flac for CloudPlay would just be more practical, I believe.

The situation is similar with Atmos. Not many of us have full 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 channel systems. 5.1 is much more common.

Although less trivial, it's also quite possible to also convert Atmos to multi-channel flac. As part of the process you designate the desired target speaker layout.

For upoading to CloudPlay the most common 5.1 would make sense.
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mlknez

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Re: Cloudplay Ideas
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2023, 12:25:39 pm »

Well, as Jim pointed out; Multichannel flac is now supported.

As far as DSD is concerned, not everyone is using a DAC that supports it, whereas all DACs support PCM.

So those people end up converting any DSD they have to pcm anyway, either in real-time via playback software, or by creating PCM versions offline.

The latter could easily be carried out by anyone prior to uploading DSD originating content to CloudPlay in flac format.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a fan of DSD myself; but pre-conversion to flac for CloudPlay would just be more practical, I believe.

The situation is similar with Atmos. Not many of us have full 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 channel systems. 5.1 is much more common.

Although less trivial, it's also quite possible to also convert Atmos to multi-channel flac. As part of the process you designate the desired target speaker layout.

For upoading to CloudPlay the most common 5.1 would make sense.

the question is WHY NOT support dsd and atmos.  what is the true limiting factor that is the reason to not support them.  Just because some people don't value it, does not mean it should not be supported.  In the end, the users of cloudplay should determine what they consume. 
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soundgals

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Re: Cloudplay Ideas
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2023, 01:24:58 pm »

Well it's not really a question for me. I was only speculating that there are probably practical limitations. Obviously JRiver are providing and facilitating the service. So they have the final say.

You could just as easily ask Qobuz, Tidal or Apple why they don't stream DSD or Atmos in its lossless form.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Cloudplay Ideas
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2023, 03:28:22 pm »

It's niche. I would assume Atmos would be more appealing to potential listeners than DSD in this case. I'm also going to assume supporting both in Cloudplay would make the server-side stuff more complicated (and obviously it wouldn't be backwards compatible with older MC versions) and there'd have to be a way MC could filter out Atmos and/or DSD Cloudplay playlists for those not interested or unable to play either format.
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jctcom

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Re: Cloudplay Ideas
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2023, 12:52:50 am »

It's niche. I would assume Atmos would be more appealing to potential listeners than DSD in this case. I'm also going to assume supporting both in Cloudplay would make the server-side stuff more complicated (and obviously it wouldn't be backwards compatible with older MC versions) and there'd have to be a way MC could filter out Atmos and/or DSD Cloudplay playlists for those not interested or unable to play either format.

Or instead you could focus on showing them what they are missing.  Thus perpetuating the interest in DSF and ATMOS?

Carl.
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mlknez

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Re: Cloudplay Ideas
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2023, 10:58:08 pm »

Or instead you could focus on showing them what they are missing.  Thus perpetuating the interest in DSF and ATMOS?

Carl.

This thread is cloudplay ideas.  Are you saying that DSD and Atmos support are not viable cloudplay ideas?  And if so, why?  Technical?  Financial?  Please no speculation... facts only please.
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