Networks and Remotes > Remotes
Chromecast Audio & WiiM Pro Plus
madbrain:
So, after playing a few hours with the wonderful DLNA support in the Wiim Pro Plus, I decided to try Google Cast in JRemote2 just for kicks. This time I cast to the Wiim built-in CCA. It's back to non-working state - initial cast sound and that's it. Qobuz app can still cast successfully to this CCA, and is sounding great, except for gaps. But the album I'm listening to right now isn't gapless so that's acceptable. Bottom line, there are still intermittent issues with Google Cast on CCAs and with JRemote2, and many other Android apps, but not all. Not sure if I'm the only one running into them.
madbrain:
--- Quote from: markf2748 on November 04, 2023, 09:19:40 pm ---it would be nice if you further report your experiences.
--- End quote ---
So, I tried the WiiM in my best seat in the house, in my home theater with Energy Veritas 2.3h speakers and a Marantz SR7011 receiver. I first connected the SPDIF optical output. I had to use the Wiim app to select it. Only one output can be active at a time. So, the analog out that was still connected to the other receiver for the other zone got disabled. I then use the Qobuz app to find some high res content - 24 bits 96 kHz, and cast use Google cast protocol. I played the very familiar 1981 Goldberg variations, of which I own several versions includin the SACD. But here it was high-res PCM obviously on Qobuz. I listed to 8 tracks. They all sounded great, except for the gaps. There is also a very annoying fade-in / fade-out at the start/end of each track. Most inappropriate for classical. Not sure if there is a setting in the Wiim or Qobuz app to disable it - I haven't found it. Anyway, using the receiver's DAC, these Goldberg sounded as good as I remember the DSD version sounding. I made sure to set the receiver in Pure direct and 2 channel stereo mode only (the HT has 15 speakers). Other than the gaps & fades, I really couldn't fault the playback at 24/96 using the receiver DAC.
Then, I decided to use the analog outs from the Wiim and connect them to a stereo input on the Marantz SR7011. I switched the Wiim to the analog out. This made all casting stop - I had to restart it.
Anyway, long story short : it sounded even better with the Wiim Pro Plus DAC doing the decoding. Not sure I can really explain how, but it did. This was not a blind test, obviously, much less double blind. It could be that the levels are very slightly different between DACs, and that could influence my impression. Louder is often perceived to be better. Anyway, the DAC sounds absolutely great.
I suppose after this, I could just bitstream the DSD version of the disc to the receiver from the Sony HDMI disc player for a comparison. Time to get off my couch. Actually, the disc was still in the player from the last time I demo'ed the sound system. So, I set the receiver in Pure mode, and it displayed "DSD Direct". This is using the receiver's built-in DSD DAC. The level from my Sony UBP-X800 is clearly a lot higher than with the previous two DAC tests with the PCM Qobuz version, or maybe this is just the way the SACD was mastered. When variation 1 started loudly, my cat who was listenin got really startled at how loud it was. Time to pick up the trusted Radio Shack SPL meter, which is right here on my CD/SACD shelf.
I was able to get a measurement peak 96 dB C for the first 10 seconds of variation 1 on DSD from the SACD player, with the receiver set to 0dB. Then, unfortunately, the 6 year expired 9V battery ran out, and I was unable to take the measurement with the Wiim Pro Plus DAC. I think there is at least a 3dB difference between the two, and possibly more. I unfortunately don't have another 9V battery in the house, sigh.
Without adjusting for volume, I still like the DSD version the best of the 3. With a compensating volume adjustment, in a blind listening test, I can't guess which of the 3 versions I might prefer.
Actually, it turns out the content I chose on Qobuz was the wrong one - it was a hires version of the 1981 Gouldberg, but in 24 bit 44.1 kHz, not 96 kHz. No wonder I preferred the native DSD version. But there are definitely major mastering differences, in volume.
I also happen to have the SACD ISO for that Goldberg disk. So, I streamed it to the Wiim Pro Plus using MC31, with transcode to 192 kHz PCM stereo. The volume was much lower than when bitstreaming DSD from the disk player to the receiver over HDMI. I estimate about 9 dB lower. This is either due to the DAC in the WiiM having lower volume, or some artifact in the transcoding. Anyway, I set my receiver to +9dB and started listening. Then suddenly, after one (automatic) track change, I heard extremely loud white noise through the speakers. My cat got scared and ran away really quick. I had to reboot the Wiim Pro Plus to be able to resume playback. This was the second time it happened today with DSD transcoding, but the first time, I didn't have to reboot the WiiM, and the zone I was playing in wasn't set to +9dB.
Has anyone else experienced this white noise problem ? It is a random inconsistent problem. Not sure why transcode would be any different than playing straight 192 kHz PCM files from JRiver. I don't have any of those, though. Maybe I need to do a file transcode of my SACD ISOs to PCM and try playing them to see if the problem happens again. I have never heard the white noise when transcoding within JRiver without streaming to Wiim - ie. using a local renderer.
madbrain:
My enthusiasm for Wiim is waning a bit due to the issues trying to play DSD on it. Good thing my initial Ebay bid on ebay for 11 more units wasn't accepted. I have a reasonable counteroffer to respond to.
Anyway, I can't work around this white noise issue with on-the-fly DSD transcoding. Thinking 192 kHz might be an issue, I switched the on-the-fly DSD transcoding to PCM 24/96 kHz in MC, but unfortunately the extremely very loud white noise happened again after playing about 8 tracks. It seemed again to be at the beginning of a new track. I'm really concerned about blowing up ears/amps/speakers due to this problem, and I can't take the chance of it happening again.
Next, I did a DSD to PCM file transcoding with JRiver MC. I didn't specify any kHz sampling rate - didn't run DSP studio. This resulted in 352.8 kHz PCM stereo files. I was converting the Gould 1981 Goldberg SACD ISO to FLAC. I then played the entire 32-track album through the WiiM . I never once experienced the white noise issue. However, there were problems at the end of each track - clicks & pops during the last 3 seconds. This is not good, but nevertheless much better than the white noise I experienced with on-the-fly DSD conversion.
FYI, the WiiM DAC is supposed to accept up to 768 kHz PCM. I was pleasantly surprised it accepted the 352.8 kHz files as-is. I believe only the WiiM Pro Plus goes to 768 kHz, the Pro and Mini won't. The WiiM home Android app showed 352.8 kHz.
Right after this experiment, I played a regular album - CD 16 bit 44.1 kHz stereo in FLAC using MC31 onto the Wiim, and there were no gaps, clicks or pops at the end of any track - it was completely seamless.
I'll try converting the SACD again to a lower sampling rate than 352.8 - maybe 176.4 kHz or 88.2 kHz, and see if those clicks and pops disappear.
Edit: transcoded again to 176.4 kHz and it's playing fine - no gaps, pops, or clicks. Looks like DSD64 needs to be offline-transcoded to 176.4k on the Wiim right now. Not sure where the bug lies - on MC or Wiim side - but it's clear this combination was not tested by the Wiim folks.
markf2748:
Thanks for all the detailed reporting on Wiim Pro Plus. I'm pretty much limited to "redbook" 16-bit 44.1KHz, which I'm glad to hear you report works fine.
--- Quote from: madbrain on November 04, 2023, 09:21:13 pm ---I see. Windows updates really are a PITA. I am going out of the country late next week and I hope that doesn't happen while I'm there. This is why I care about VPN access to MC.
--- End quote ---
Just a reminder that in Win 10/11 you can pause updates for up to 5 weeks (35 days), if that helps. I don't know if pausing eliminates all problems, but it's free to try.
Re your experience of sudden loud volume white noise, MC has a setting Audio > Volume > Volume Protection.
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume#Volume_Protection
Not sure it will protect you 100%, but may be worth checking that box while experimenting.
Re any tests involving Android apps, there may be differences between MO 4Media and JRemote2 (I am personally biased towards favoring the former). For example, in my limited casting with JRemote2 it indicates "Transcoding 320 kbps MP3" at the bottom of the player window, while other apps as least show flac 44.1-16bit. In any case, if you are not doing it already, then I'd suggest first testing Wiim DLNA directly from the MC server before bringing any Android app or casting into the loop.
rec head:
I just bought my 3rd Wiim Pro and think they are pretty nice. I have old Chromecast Audio's, but they were always unreliable. It is a shame you need to get the Wiim Pro version to get CC. So far my main case has been to cast Audible to the 3 of them and it works great. Using Audible I have to cast my phone because the app doesn't support CC but it is hassle free. I have also cast music from MO4 and MC without issue. Using them as DLNA zones works well too. I find that having a CC group made for the speakers is easier than using the Wiim app to group them.
A funny note about the Wiim app is that it is just the generic app for the chipset or something. Other brands of streaming boxes use the same app.
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