Linux > JRiver Media Center 33 for Linux

Feature Parity with Windows for Home Theater

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mattkhan:
Jim asked me to start a thread on this subject as a result of this discussion - https://www.avsforum.com/threads/jriver-media-center-owners-thread.1352282/page-141?post_id=63488497#post-63488497 - in which a potential user wanted to use linux MC in a dedicated cinema setup.

The gaps as far as I can see are listed below. This list may not be exhaustive, it's just the issues I'm aware of.

1) ability to bitstream over HDMI
* why? most obvious benefit is to enable atmos decoding downstream

2) BD folder support
* why? not everyone rips to mkv so this requirement limits the market & folder is a complete backup of the disc rather than a rip of a particular track

3) no line input (e.g. alsa loopback, equivalent of WDM)
* why? many streaming sources are playable via browser so if you use MC as your DSP engine then you can't use linux build without loopback

4) windows/linux interop (e.g. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=114800.0 & https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135226.msg936774.html#msg936774)
* why? to allow all clients to playback a local file directly without transcoding by the server (which is cpu and network intensive activity in a video setup) in a mixed OS setup

my understanding is that 2 is a feature of lavfilters (i.e. a windows only component) while 3 & 4 are feature gaps in MC itself, I'm not sure if 1 is an MC issue or something that affects linux more broadly (I don't bitstream so can't really comment on that)

if I had to put these in order of impact, I'd guess that 1 is the most severe issue (no atmos is an immediate hard stop for someone who has an atmos setup) followed by 2 then 3 (as not everyone who wants to use MC in a cinema setup would use either of those features).

4 is a bigger issue than just video so benefits a larger group of people (people have asked for this many times) but the impact on user experience (of playing a local file vs transcoding from server) is significant for a video setup in my experience so I'd personally place this at the top of my list & I guess you must have local playback though in order to bitstream you couldn't add a linux client to an existing windows server and be able to use bitstream (once it's supported) without this feature.

mwillems:
Are we talking about all feature gaps that might affect home theater use?  There are a few others too, although some of them may be harder (or impossible) to fix:

5)  Remote control and media keys

On Windows MCE remote controls and keyboard media keys work as expected in JRiver.  Using them on Linux is challenging and requires significant work on the user's part.   

There are two separate remote/media key issues.  The first issue is that some media key presses don't seem to be implemented or work correctly.  For example, using a standard MCE remote that worked perfectly on Windows, I have never managed to get the remote control number keys working in theater view on Linux the way they do on Windows. This is the case even using the exact same Linux environment that the devs use for testing (XFCE4 on Debian).  Theater view on Linux just doesn't seem to respond to the number keys on the remote control at all even though they're sending the correct keypresses.  To be clear, typing numbers on the keyboard works fine, but the remote control number keys do not work even though they're sending the same keycodes!  Check out this thread for a recent(ish) example of another user struggling with remote control configuration seeing a similar issue: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=136975.0.

Second, there's a separate issue in that many common Linux desktop environments (DEs) (like Gnome, KDE, and I think Cinnamon too) consume some of the media keypresses and expect programs to use the MPRIS API to get them, but JRiver does not use MPRIS so using any remote or media key that the DEs "manage" requires a user workaround.  So for many Linux users the most common remote or media keys (play/pause, stop, volume control) will fail out of the box, and require some fairly laborious workarounds to get them working (remapping keys using custom JRiver configuration, and then remapping the remote to hit those new keys). 

To summarize, if you spin up JRiver on a default install of Debian (which uses the Gnome desktop environment as a default), Ubuntu (uses a modified Gnome as default), or Fedora (also Gnome by default), the majority of the remote control keys just won't work with no feedback as to why they're not working, and only some of those keys can be made to work via workarounds on the user side. 

6) Keeping the Screen on During Playback

MC does not successfully inhibit the display from turning off on Wayland desktops when audio or video are playing, even when the setting to do so is enabled.  That means you have to wiggle the mouse every fifteen minutes or so to keep the screen on or turn off the OS level power management and manually handle or script your own power management (which is what I ultimately did on my HTPC boxes). 

Because most Linux distros now default to a Wayland desktop (i.e. Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora default to Gnome on Wayland), I think that will be a pain point for many home theater users.  I have tested this on Gnome and sway, but because I think MC relies on xset to keep the screen on, I think this would be an issue on any Wayland desktop.

7) DVD or Blu Ray menus

This is a subset of your 2), but an important one.  For several years MC for windows could play folder formats, but didn't support menus, which is limiting if you're using a remote control/10 foot interface.  Now I think MC for Windows supports Blu ray menus, which would ideally also be plumbed in for Linux.

8 ) Integrated Browser/Netflix

The windows version now has integrated netflix handling (and maybe other services too?), which is absent on Linux, but that may be unresolvable because of the DRM requirements and the embedded browsers available.

9) Television Support

The Windows version supports a wider variety of television tuner hardware than the Linux version; even some Linux tuners that have drivers and are supported on Linux are not supported by MC, I think because there's no unified API for MC to target.

10) Automatic display mode setting

On Windows JRiver can automatically change the refresh rate (among other things) of your display to match the content.  There's no equivalent functionality on Linux (the Video dialog options are there, but don't actually provide any choices other than "desktop settings").

There are some other gaps, but they're either minor or wouldn't affect a cinema type setup.  Credit to the JRiver team for closing a lot of other longstanding gaps over the years (i.e. TV support is much improved and CD playback and ripping now works).

mattkhan:
good post

the conversation on avs was about fundamental blocking issues but that doesn't mean that serious user experience issues don't exist, just that you don't get to experience those if the blocking issues exist as you don't use it long enough to find those things out.

Awesome Donkey:

--- Quote from: mwillems on August 18, 2024, 01:06:30 pm ---9) Television Support

The Windows version supports a wider variety of television tuner hardware than the Linux version; even some Linux tuners that have drivers and are supported on Linux are not supported by MC, I think because there's no unified API for MC to target.
--- End quote ---

This came up recently and Bob responded to it and explained why it only works with networked tuners on Linux and Mac: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,139439.0.html

Honestly if I was building a HTPC or recommend it to someone, I'd install or recommend to install Windows and not Linux simply because chances are it's going to just work on Windows and be a less of a hassle to setup and less work involved. Yes, Windows isn't free but you can buy legit Windows pretty cheap on sites like StackSocial: https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-windows-11-pro-6

Windows 11 Pro is on sale for $20 right now. Paying $20 for Windows is worth more than dealing with Linux and the quirks and hassle you'd have to deal with and/or workaround, IMHO. Yes, there's those who want to move away from Windows but honestly that's not really as easy as you'd think. You'd have to weigh the pros and cons and decide is potentially undertaking the task of switching to Linux is worth it, because chances are it may not be.

Just my two cents.

mattkhan:
Let's keep on topic

The point of this thread is what would be required to uplift Linux MC so it can replace windows MC. Whether it's feasible or not is another q, one that the MC team can answer as they like.

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