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[Bob4K]

Hi,

I am a total newbie here, I never used JRM.

I need to build an HTPC with only one purpose: being able unattended to accept an HDMI signal with any full lossless and lossy audio format (DTSMA, TRUEHD, AC3, AAC, etc...), any video resolution up to 4K/60, and output unchanged video with fully multi-pcm decoded audio.

Is that possible with JRM?

I built numerous PCs, and I have a good Windows knowledge, including building C++ apps.

Thank you in advance for any pointers. Knowing it's possible and where to find the various docs would be a great help.

[Awesome Donkey]

Enabling HDMI bitstreaming is probably the best first step to get you going. Some wiki topics can be found at the following links...

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Blu-ray#HD_Audio
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Connection_Type

[dtc]

Bitstreaming will pass the audio exactly as it came in. It seems the goal is to have the audio all converted to PCM without changing the video. For that, I think turning bit streaming off is the right approach. The question then is what audio formats does MC convert to PCM with the same number of output channels while preserving the video format. 

[craigmcg]

It sounds like you're trying to use an external device connected by HDMI to send into a pc where Media Center is supposed to pass the video through without change but convert the audio to PCM but is the PC supposed to then feed it to another external device?

Could you please clarify your equipment/signal chain? I think that it might help people to help you better.

[Bob4K]

So, I have a Dune Player HDMI output to be split. Its output currently goes to an HDfury Vertex splitter.

The Vertex output 1 goes to a video processor that goes to a projector.

The Vertex output 2 should go to a Goldmund audio processor. That should be simple enough.

But the audio processor is picky. Even though the Vertex shows HDCP 2.2 both on its input and output 2, the Goldmund does not decode DTSMA nor TRUEHD.

My workaround is to plug the Vertex output 2 to an Oppo 203 HDMI input, and then the Oppo audio only output to the Goldmund.

Somehow, the Goldmund "likes" what the Oppo outputs, and it decodes.

It works, but the chain is complicated, and I have way to often to power ON/OFF the Oppo to make it work, the audio just disconnects sometimes after a pause or a fast forward for example.

My idea is to replace the Vertex by a PC using JRM, using it as a simple splitter with 2 outputs, one video and one audio.

If the audio is PCM instead of bitstream, the Goldmund always work, and I can eliminate the Oppo.

So, I need a PC with an HDMI input, 2 HDMI ouputs, one for video, and one for decoded to PCM audio.

The main difficulty seems to find a GPU with one HDMI input, of course supported by JRM. any idea?

[jctcom]

The Oppo probably just converts it to PCM Multi-Channel.

MC already does that if you don't have Bitstreaming turned on under

Options > Audio > Settings > Bitstreaming  I think for your purposes you want it set to "None Recommended".

It also looks like that device supports a maximum bandwidth of 96kHz so you might also want to go into

Options > Audio > DSP & Output format

Leave Output Encoding at "None"

Set everything at or below 96kHz to "No Change"
Set everything above 96kHz to 96Khz

Carl

[Bob4K]

The Oppo probably just converts it to PCM Multi-Channel.

No, the stream is left untouched. The Goldmund display clearly shows DTS  or Dolby.

I don't think that the Oppo can convert every format (Atmos, etc...) properly.
Edit: it does not. No sound with ATMOS for example.

The Dune cannot. For Atmos for example, channels are randomly distributed, it's a real mess.

MC already does that if you don't have Bitstreaming turned on under

Options > Audio > Settings > Bitstreaming  I think for your purposes you want it set to "None Recommended".

Good, all I need to know is what GPU with HDMI input is supported. Google and ChatGPT could not help.

It also looks like that device supports a maximum bandwidth of 96kHz so you might also want to go into

Options > Audio > DSP & Output format

Leave Output Encoding at "None"
Set everything at or below 96kHz to "No Change"
Set everything above 96kHz to 96Khz

Carl

The 96K limit is already set on the Dune, but it's useful to know it can be set there too.

[Bob4K]

I need to use MC as a splitter, the source being a Dune media payer.

Thank you in advance for any information about a supported a GPU with one HDMI input and two HDMI ouputs

[David Sydney]

A mid-range AV receiver will do this, like my 10 year old Yamaha RX-V777.

GPUs do not usually take input from media player but from the computer itself?

Maybe more details would be helpful in trying to understand the background to your question?

[Bob4K]

A mid-range AV receiver will do this, like my 10 year old Yamaha RX-V777.

GPUs do not usually take input from media player but from the computer itself?

Maybe more details would be helpful in trying to understand the background to your question?

Here is the reason:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,139871.0.html

If there is no such GPU, is there an HDMI capture card supported by JRM and working with an HDCP stream?

Is that even possible?

[jctcom]

Maybe I am not understanding you all the way?

Is your source for all your music going to be the PC?

If yes then why do you need an HDMI Input on the PC?  Shouldn't you rather be looking for 2 Outputs?

That would be very easy to find.  There are even many motherboards with it built in.

Carl

[Bob4K]

No, the source is exclusively the Dune media player.

What I need is a splitter than can output video on one output, and decoded audio on the other.

The Dune feeds the splitter, that feeds the Video Processor and the Goldmund audio processor, which only works well with PCM for some ridiculous reasons.

The Goldmund does work well with streams from a regular Blu-ray player, but not with a Dune. On the other hand, it sounds better than any other high end processor, so there is that.

[jctcom]

Not sure what exactly you are trying to achieve?  Are you trying to play music to the Dune? From the Dune?

Either way I think JRiver should be able to see it on the network and either control it, Play music to it or both.

This thread might be a start as to what you are looking for:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=120787.0

They never actually posted their final findings but I still think that is a better direction?

Carl

[Bob4K]

I am trying to build an HDMI splitter than take its input from a Dune media player playing MKV files, outputs on its first HDMI output the untouched video, and on its second HDMI the decoded to PCM audio.

It will be a passive device, no use of the GUI at all. Just splitting an HDMI stream from the Dune and decoding the audio to PCM.

You can buy a splitter for $40 on Amazon, but it does not decode the audio stream, there is no such device on the market.

Nor does any receiver: they decode, but only to output analog signals to be sent to the amps.

[jctcom]

Can you tell me exactly which model of Dune Media Player you have?

Also while you are at it you might as well tell me which Goldmund processor you have?

Mimesis 16.8 or 32.5?
Or something different?

Carl

[Bob4K]

Of course.

Dune Solo 8K: quite better than the previous models, its picture quality is now as good as the reference Oppo 203. The red push, especially when you convert SDR to HDR is gone now, colors are neutral.

Goldmund 16.8: annoying with some decoding quirks when sourcing from a non blu-ray player, but with its 2 channel PCM outputs and floating point processing allowing phase an frequency correction, just the best by a wide margin to drive amps with included DACS, bypassing every thing analog up to the last power output stage to the speakers.

And while I'm at it, Envy Extreme processor, and Barco Freya+.

[jctcom]

So forgetting the splitter for now.

You are trying to go from the Dune to the Goldmund then from the Goldmund 1. to a video display and 2. to an AMP / receiver or something like that?

The main issue is that the Godmund does not decode digital codecs (DTS-HD, Dolby TruHD)?  But maybe is does decode the lossy ones (I think you mentioned somewhere that it displayed Dolby Digital and DTS?)

So are the 8 RCA Outs on that to combine to make an analog 7.1 capability?

You are using this setup for both movies and music?

Carl.

[Bob4K]

You are trying to go from the Dune to the Goldmund then from the Goldmund 1. to a video display and 2. to an AMP / receiver or something like that?

The Goldmund is the AMP receiver.

The main issue is that the Godmund does not decode digital codecs (DTS-HD, Dolby TruHD)?  But maybe is does decode the lossy ones (I think you mentioned somewhere that it displayed Dolby Digital and DTS?)

Yes it does, but there is a weird handshaking problem that prevents it from doing so from the Dune, but not from an Oppo.

And if there is the same problem with the JRM based splitter that I would like to build, then JRM can do the decoding.

So are the 8 RCA Outs on that to combine to make an analog 7.1 capability?

These are 8 SPDIF RCA outputs, and each of the 16 channels can be assigned to anything you want, each channel with several specific phase and frequency filters.

That's done by the reseller, with measuring tools, not by hear. Hearing comes at last, but only to optimize a little bit.

You are using this setup for both movies and music?

Carl.

Oh yes!

[mattkhan]

personally I wouldn't do this using MC as MC's TV module is quite limited in my experience vs MPC-BE or MPC-HC, I can say that using the latter with any of hte magewell cards or usb devices works fine with an appropriate splitter in front to strip HDCP. Using one of their pcie cards will give sufficient bandwidth to handle 4k60 input  (I have this one https://www.magewell.com/products/pro-capture-hdmi-4k-plus), if you only need 4k24 then any of the USB ones are fine. Either of these come up quite cheaply on ebay quite regularly. I've tried 3-4 cards with MC and none of them worked at all well hence why I'd say don't use it unless you can find someone who can positively affirm that a specific card works well.

[jctcom]

The Goldmund is the AMP receiver.

Yes it does, but there is a weird handshaking problem that prevents it from doing so from the Dune, but not from an Oppo.

You have tried a different HDMI Cable?  A higher end cable can make a big difference as to what makes it through the handshaking.  I use 8K rated cables on all my system even though my TV is only 4K.

These are 8 SPDIF RCA outputs, and each of the 16 channels can be assigned to anything you want, each channel with several specific phase and frequency filters.

Normally SPDIF cannot carry lossless Multi-Channel Signals (DTS-HD, TrueHD).  This may be different  this case since I also don't think normal SPDIF can carry 16 Channels. 

I guess it's possible that Goldmund has created their own protocol or something?

In any case I am off to bed (after 2am here).  Will be interested to see how this thread progresses in the morning.

[Bob4K]

Normally SPDIF cannot carry lossless Multi-Channel Signals (DTS-HD, TrueHD).  This may be different  this case since I also don't think normal SPDIF can carry 16 Channels.

The Goldmund decodes to PCM (if there is no problem) any HDMI stream, and then repackages 2 by 2 each channel on the SPDIF outputs that remain standard stereo ones.

Output 1 can carry for example L+R
Output 2 can carry SR+SL
Output 3 can carry (SUB Left + LowFrequency filetered of SL) + (SUB Right + LowFrequency filetered of SR)

and so on.

It outputs what ever input channel (mixed with another if needed, and frequency and phase filtered) to any of the 8x2 stereo outputs.

[craigmcg]

I'm not the expert that some JRiver users are but it seems to me that you could simplify the signal chain you mention to avoid some of the issues that you are reporting.

My "keep it simple" suggestion would be to test then use a powerful Windows pc to be the source instead of the high end Android box you mention. Most modern  video cards have support for multiple monitors/video outputs and can do upscaling with or without AI enhancements. You could connect one of the video card's HDMI to the projector and another to the Goldmund. This should avoid the need for the use of the Dune Solo 8k and the Oppo 203 reducing the number of places where something could go wrong.

My two cents.

[David Sydney]

You said you are building a HTPC set up? A Standard PC builds can split audio and video to different devices anyway? If you player is USB / streaming or SATA device, then the PC itself can spit the video and Sound to separate devices that you choose. Most GPU card have more that one video output either HDMI or DP which windows can control as extended /mirrored etc. Video would go out to your display device and sound can go out via digital audio if your motherboard supports it or USB to your DAC/amplifier - again you can choose which device the audio is passed to. No need for HDMI hardware splitters to do anything?

[Bob4K]

I like the Dune, I don't want an HTPC.

Except if I can't find another solution as a plug & forget device serving as a very specialized splitter.

I am going to test an HDFury AVR Key though. It's a splitter specialized in solving HDMI audio problems. If that works, I won't need JRiver, but that's not sure at all.

Another avenue would be to use an HDCP stripper to connect the Dune: posting on various forums like this one and getting feedback made me think that perhaps the HDCP Dune implementation is not 100% right, and my processor just does not accept it. Without HDCP at all, it might no longer have decoding problems.

Thinking of it, it seems more problable than some handshaking problem.

[Bob4K]

You said you are building a HTPC set up?

Not at all, I want to keep my Dune as the sole source.

An HTPC built as a plug & forget splitter able to decode streams to PCM is just an idea to solve the connectivity problem between the Dune and my Goldmund processor.

I got other ideas discussing here and on other forums: maybe use an HDFury AVR Key, a splitter optimized to solve audio problems, or use an HDCP stripper behind the Dune. The Dune HDCP might not be 100% compliant, which could very well mute the Goldmund.

[JimH]

Split mattkahn TV problems

I'll move it to the TV board later.

[dtc]

The main difficulty seems to find a GPU with one HDMI input, of course supported by JRM. any idea?

This seems like the first order of business. Are there any HDMI input cards that support 4K and the audio formats and that MC supports?

[dtc]

The Panasonic DP-U9000 player will split the audio and video and also decode the audio to PCM.

As suggested before, why not use a AV Receiver with 2 HDMI outputs? It can split the signal and decode to PCM.

[mattkhan]

This seems like the first order of business. Are there any HDMI input cards that support 4K and the audio formats and that MC supports?

I think cards exist that can potentially do it but it requires use of their own SDKs and I am not aware of any publicly available software that can do it.

[Bob4K]

That seems to much work for this, I will abandon the idea.

Thanks for saving me time!

[Bob4K]

The Panasonic DP-U9000 player will split the audio and video and also decode the audio to PCM.

As suggested before, why not use a AV Receiver with 2 HDMI outputs? It can split the signal and decode to PCM.

Because I have already a very good AV receiver, and I just want to make it work.

And I am already using for the moment an Oppo 203 the same way you suggest with the Panny. That works, but with too many devices in the loop (as it would be with another AVR), sometimes there is an handshaking problem that needs powering off and on to get back the audio.

Anyway, as I said, I'll try an HDCP stripper. It seems now like the simpler solution.

[dtc]

The suggestion is to just use the receiver as a splitter and decoder.

[Bob4K]

The suggestion is to just use the receiver as a splitter and decoder.

Actually, good idea, I did not understand exactly what you meant.

I did not realize that a cheap receiver can decode and output PCM over HDMI. It could indeed serve as a simple splitter, for much less cost than an HTPC.

Edit: I'm not sure that it's allowed for an HDCP device to decode to full PCM muti-channel protected content. Most of the time, receivers are set to send PCM when they speak to a TV that needs only a stereo input. Another can of worms!

[dtc]

Agreed, I do not know the HDCP implications.

[craigmcg]

@Bob4k - I understand the desire to use hardware that you already have because I have non HDMI audio and HDMI video because I can't justify the cost of replacing good quality audio electronics to myself, much less my wife. I was very fortunate that the now discontinued Topping DM7 DAC permitted this for me (with the support of JRiver expert users). This said, based on the information provided by you and more expert people than me, it seems that your options are either:

1) to keep dealing with the nuisance behaviours using your current hardware workarounds or
2) get lucky with the HDCP stripping that you're considering or
2) to make hardware changes to either go with an HTPC as the source through your Goldmund based audio system or replace your Goldmund setup with an AVR.

I hope that you or the experts can find an acceptable solution,