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[tlongacre]

Does this already exist??? If so, just point me in the right direction. If not, please accept this as a REQUEST for a new plug-in (that seems more appropriate than a built-in feature, I think.)

As I am ripping my entire collection, another long-term goal of mine is getting accomplished -- catalogueing my collection!!!

Now, I would like to be able to take the "catalogue" part of it with me. So, there are programs that exist that keep a catalogue on the PC and have a synched version for PocketPC. However, the ones I've seen can only take input either directly or imported via CSV file. I've looked but don't see any function in MC9 to Export to a CSV file.

I can see a variety of ways to get what I want, but essentially what I care about is -- a) being able to indicate if I have loaned someone a CD (who, date lent, date they said they'd return it) and b) being able to carry the catalogue listing on my PPC (name of album, artist, genre, tracks, and the lending info).

So, if there were a plug-in that could export the MC9 library to a CSV file, I could import it into an existing program. Not the most elegant, but it would work. Or if someone wanted to create a plug-in that added the lending info to MC9 and created a PPC database and the ability to synch with it (not the actual songs, just the library info), that would be excellent.

Or maybe there is already a way to do this and I just can't see it?

Lemme know. I'll be very grateful  

[ricklearned]

I found a way to do this by selecting the Audio Media Library and then using File, Export Playlist. You have several choices including ASCI.  You can open that in Excel, you have to specify the delimiter "|". I create two sheets in the workbook, one sorted on title and one sorted on artist.  I also delete some of the columns I don't need in order to make the file smaller on the pocket pc

[tlongacre]

Oh, sweet, sweet, sweet. Yee haw! That is brilliant. I just didn't know where to look. God, I love this program.

Do you use any of the PPC programs or do you just use Excel?

[sraymond]

Does the PocketPC have PocketAccess?  You could use the Export Playlist as MPL and then do an XSLT transformation to allow an import into a DB.  The plugin MCXMLExport will do all the work for you - you'd just need an XSLT and a program to import it into.  With MCXMLExport, you can also have a preset for this scenario - making export as simple as a one- or two-click operation.

Is there any other PocketPC database available?

Scott-

[ricklearned]

tlongacre,
I only use Excel but it would be nice to have something preset to make it a single step update. I just use it when I am shopping to make sure I don't buy something I already have. I am on Pocket PC 2002 and there is some reference to Access db but I have not been able to use MS Acess on the Pocket PC

[tlongacre]

Does the PocketPC have PocketAccess?  You could use the Export Playlist as MPL and then do an XSLT transformation to allow an import into a DB.  The plugin MCXMLExport will do all the work for you - you'd just need an XSLT and a program to import it into.  With MCXMLExport, you can also have a preset for this scenario - making export as simple as a one- or two-click operation.

Is there any other PocketPC database available?

Scott-

Well, there are several PocketPC databases available -- HanDbase, at least one MS Access dbase and others. So that is a definite possibility. But I have to say, with all the acronyms, I didn't understand about 60% of your message.

[tlongacre]

tlongacre,
I only use Excel but it would be nice to have something preset to make it a single step update. I just use it when I am shopping to make sure I don't buy something I already have. I am on Pocket PC 2002 and there is some reference to Access db but I have not been able to use MS Acess on the Pocket PC

Ah, you must have a collection like mine. There is nothing more embarrassing, particularly in front of your spouse, than realizing you've bought something you already own.

[sraymond]

I've been working on a way to generate customized HTML (among other things) from the MC library.  Here's a screenshot of what you can do using scott_r's MCXMLExport plugin and my XSLT:  http://pages.sbcglobal.net/scottraymond/XAlbumTomcat.jpg.

The plugin is available here:  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=16966
The XSLT is available here:  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=16293

As far as being confused about the acronyms, I'm going to write a primer on XML (I've been saying this for a week now, so I hope I finish it soon).  It will explain everything you need to use MCXMLExport.

Scott-

[tlongacre]

I've been working on a way to generate customized HTML (among other things) from the MC library.  Here's a screenshot of what you can do using scott_r's MCXMLExport plugin and my XSLT:  http://pages.sbcglobal.net/scottraymond/XAlbumTomcat.jpg.

The plugin is available here:  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=16966
The XSLT is available here:  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=16293

As far as being confused about the acronyms, I'm going to write a primer on XML (I've been saying this for a week now, so I hope I finish it soon).  It will explain everything you need to use MCXMLExport.

Scott-

Well, I gotta admit, that looks cool. Particularly if it is searchable. If it looked like that page (the page with the James Taylor album) on my PPC, that would be excellent.

[sraymond]

Well, I gotta admit, that looks cool. Particularly if it is searchable. If it looked like that page (the page with the James Taylor album) on my PPC, that would be excellent.

A nice thing about XML is that you can present the data for different form factors (i.e. PPC) easily enough.  I did the search using server-side XSLT processing - which probably isn't an option for you on a PPC.  The alternative is to do a search using JavaScript or some other client-side process.

How big is your library?  There are practical limits to how big of an HTML document you want to open with a webrowser - especially one on the PocketPC.

If you want to play with using a database on the PPC, let me know what application you can use and we can see how to best import - it is easy enough to write an XSLT that creates SQL statements for an import.

Scott-

[tlongacre]

How big is your library?  There are practical limits to how big of an HTML document you want to open with a webrowser - especially one on the PocketPC.

Well, as of this moment, I've got 12,217 songs, and I'm about 2/3 the way through my collection. I've always thought I had somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 CDs. So now that I think about it, perhaps having every song listed is not all that practical and I should just do Albums. . .

[tlongacre]

Okay Scott, now I actually have the PocketPC PDA and I'm back on this.

I got the XML Export plugin for MC9 and that seems to work fine. But now I don't know what to do with the document it creates. What I'd like is to convert it to a database. There are a couple of Database programs for the PPC that can use an Access file. I thnk I'm going to use DB Anywhere.

So how do I get an XML file into an Access mdb file?

Then, any ideas about how to keep the database up to date without overwriting the primary key (which I need to keep intact to keep it synched on the PDA)?

Thanks.

BTW, I've got about 17,000 and think it may top out at 18-20,000.

[sraymond]

Okay Scott, now I actually have the PocketPC PDA and I'm back on this.

I got the XML Export plugin for MC9 and that seems to work fine. But now I don't know what to do with the document it creates. What I'd like is to convert it to a database. There are a couple of Database programs for the PPC that can use an Access file. I thnk I'm going to use DB Anywhere.

So how do I get an XML file into an Access mdb file?

Then, any ideas about how to keep the database up to date without overwriting the primary key (which I need to keep intact to keep it synched on the PDA)?

Thanks.

BTW, I've got about 17,000 and think it may top out at 18-20,000.

I've rewritten the XSLT for importing the MPL into Access - it now replaces all illegal element characters with a character reference.  This is how Access deals with the problem, so the end-result is that the Access DB field names are identical to MC's field names.  The only downside is that it can take some time to generate - it uses recursion to parse through each filename, looking for illegal characters.  It takes about two minutes to process my 3,000 item library  using MCXMLExport.  I'm pretty sure the performance is linear, so I guess it would take you about 15 minutes to process your 20,000 item library.

(I do have a very straightforward XSLT that just translates “_” for a space, “N” for “#”, and removes “(“ and “)”.  It runs extremely fast, but it doesn’t result in Access field names that are identical to MC)

You can download the XSLT and a brief explanation at http://pages.sbcglobal.net/scottraymond/MPL2Access.zip.  The config file won't work with MC XML Export (yet), but it should give you an idea of what settings to use with MCXMLExport.

Concerning updates and primary keys...  the [Filename] field should be suitable for a primary key, if I remember correctly.  That is, it must be unique within MC.  I'm not sure what you're after with "updates".  Can you explain in more detail?

Scott-

[tlongacre]

Thanks. I don't mind about the time, but it helps to know so I don't abort it thinking it isn't working.

By updates I mean -- I am always adding new music to MC that I would then want reflected in the database. I am imagining that if I just do a complete export from MC and then import into the database, when it overwrites records (will it overwrite records??) the primary key would be lost. But maybe I'm worrying unnecessarily?

I'm only planning to take the Name, Album, Track#, Artist, Genre, and Date(yr) fields.

[sraymond]

Thanks. I don't mind about the time, but it helps to know so I don't abort it thinking it isn't working.

By updates I mean -- I am always adding new music to MC that I would then want reflected in the database. I am imagining that if I just do a complete export from MC and then import into the database, when it overwrites records (will it overwrite records??) the primary key would be lost. But maybe I'm worrying unnecessarily?

I'm only planning to take the Name, Album, Track#, Artist, Genre, and Date(yr) fields.

Just those six fields won't take long as tall.

Let me play with Access to see what it does with importing records that already exist.

Scott-

[sraymond]

Thanks. I don't mind about the time, but it helps to know so I don't abort it thinking it isn't working.

By updates I mean -- I am always adding new music to MC that I would then want reflected in the database. I am imagining that if I just do a complete export from MC and then import into the database, when it overwrites records (will it overwrite records??) the primary key would be lost. But maybe I'm worrying unnecessarily?

I'm only planning to take the Name, Album, Track#, Artist, Genre, and Date(yr) fields.

OK.  When importing XMl into an Access database, it will automatically create a new table.  If the table name is taken, it will append a number to make it unique.  This is actually quite helpful, as it allows you to use an "Append" (or "Update") query that will look for new entries.  So, in answer to your question ("will it overwrite records?):  No.

This seems only useful if you're making changes to your Access database.  Otherwise, why not just delete the existing table and reimport "fresh"?

Again, I don't think you'll have any trouble with primary keys.  To start with, importing an XML document doesn't even create a primary key.  Why do you need one?  The XSLT I provided creates a "flat" structure - one table.  If you wanted something relational (for example, a table for artists, albums, genres, and tracks), let me know and I could develop the appropriate XSLT.

I'm also thinking about playing with SQL as a means of importing into Access.  I think it would provide much greater control over the resulting tables and records.  I'll have to refresh my SQL skills first, though.

Scott-

[tlongacre]

The primary key is needed for synching the Access database on the PC with the PDA. DBAnywhere specifically mentions this, but it makes sense -- it allows for making changes on either side and keeping things up to date. I see what you mean about using a query--I could come up with something that sees adds/changes and puts them into the main table.

I also need a primary key because I want to add a few new fields, maybe as a separate table -- to show if I've lent a CD out, to whom, and when it's coming back. As I am ripping my entire collection, I've now realized I've lost at least 5 CDs I know. Bummer.

I did the export with the plugin and tried just importing that into Access, but I got a table with one field with numbers in it (maybe the track# field?), that was it. So it seemed like I was missing something.

[sraymond]

I did the export with the plugin and tried just importing that into Access, but I got a table with one field with numbers in it (maybe the track# field?), that was it. So it seemed like I was missing something.

Sounds like you weren't applying the XSLT (or you were using the wrong XSLT).  The resultant file should look something like

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<dataroot xmlns:foo="NoURL" xmlns:od="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:officedata">
  <MediaItems>
    <Album>Daydream</Album>
     .
     .
     .

OK...  for the PK, just use Filename.  I'm quite certain that MC requires it to be unique.  Again, importing the XML doesn't give you many options.  Using an Update/Append query sounds like the best way to go for you - you can tailor your table, import the XML (it will be a new table), and then update/append.

If you post the first fifteen lines of your XML that you're trying to import, perhaps I can tell where you're going awry.

Scott-

[tlongacre]

"applying the XSLT"??

oh, not doing that. How do I?

[sraymond]

"applying the XSLT"??

oh, not doing that. How do I?

Assuming you're using the latest beta version (4b) of the plugin, here's a screenshot:  http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~scottray/mcxml/mcxmlexport4.jpg

Note that there's an option for "Apply XSL Transformation".  This is the one you want.  Make sure you browse for the XSLT that I gave you (it's called MPL2Access.xsl) so that the path is right.  Select a file for "Save output as" - because this will be the XML file that you import into Access.  You don't need to "Save raw XML as", but it won't hurt.

When Scott releases the final version of his plugin, all this gets easier because it will allow for relative paths.  That means you'll be able to just unzip a "configuration" file into the root MCXMLExport directory (i.e. an "Access" file  that does all we're talking about) and everything will be good to go.

Scott-

[tlongacre]

Brilliant! Yes, this is what I was looking for.

Now if there were just someone who was a whiz at Access, or had time (which I do not) who could whip up the appropriate query. . .

Today, I have 17,260 songs in MC and 17,260 songs on my PDA. Life is good. Thank God for CF Cards.

Thank you for your assistance. It all seems so simple now.

Now that this is working technically, I can see that I definitely want to put the tracks in a table separate from the albums. So it is going to take some thought about how to do this. So if anyone out there is fast with databases and has a little time, maybe I'm not the only one who is interested in this and we could create something that would automate the process and work really well.

Thanks again for all your help.

[sraymond]

Now if there were just someone who was a whiz at Access, or had time (which I do not) who could whip up the appropriate query. . .

I could do this for you...  an update query is pretty easy to do!  But you never answered my question about how you'd use the database (in terms of why you'd need to update vice import freshfly), so I'm not sure what you need.

Now that this is working technically, I can see that I definitely want to put the tracks in a table separate from the albums. So it is going to take some thought about how to do this. So if anyone out there is fast with databases and has a little time, maybe I'm not the only one who is interested in this and we could create something that would automate the process and work really well.

It's not hard to do with XSLT, though it will definately increase the time required to generate.  You might also run into memory problems with a large library (one of the downsides to XSLT is that it has to put the whole XML document into memory).  In any event, I could normalize the one table...  a quick scan makes me think it would be the four tables I mentioned before (artists, albums, genres, and tracks).

Of course, once the tables are normalized, we'd need queries/forms to relate them back together.  And reports might be nice, too.  So there's a bit more work than just creating the tables.  Oh, and a macro would be nice to import the XML and perhaps another to run the queries.

But all very doable.  If no one volunteers in the next week or so, and others would find it useful, I'll give it a whirl.

Scott-

[tlongacre]

Well, since you asked, I'll tell you what I want in a fair amount of detail.

Context: I am currently ripping my entire music collection to MC. I'm pretty close to done actually and that may happen by the end of the weekend. I am trying to make sure everything is complete, accurate, coded, etc. as I go along (I've been getting all the cover art and lyrics I can find as well as making sure Genres, artists, spelling, and filenames are correct as well). However, I am always getting new music, so I will always be ripping or adding music to MC. Don't know if I'll be making many changes to current files or not. At the moment I am often making changes as I clean things up. The only other big project part of this is that I realize that I have got to get serious about playlists (or smartlists) because, with a 40gig iPod and over 100gigs of music, I have to pick and choose in a way that makes sense and has me able to carry around what I want. Besides, the program is now slowing way down on me (on startup -- takes a good 10 minutes or so) which I think is a function of some smart/playlists being really large.

What I need: Some way to know what music I already have, what I have lent out, to whom, when I lent it and when I expect it to be returned. This has to be mobile so I can, for instance, look it up when I'm standing in a music store or at a friend's house.

What I envision: an Access database that can be synchronized to the PDA with DBAnywhere. The Access database would allow for Album view and Track view. Track view would show the name of the song, artist, album, genre and maybe duration. Album view would show the album, artist, year, genre and might have a sub-form that displayed the tracks on the album. There would also be a view that would show (or perhaps this would be in album view as well) when I lent it, to whom and when they said they'd give it back.

Reports needed:  list of albums currently OUT showing album/artist, to whom, date lent, date expected back, sort by date expected back, them possibly also: alpha list of albums, alpha list of albums by genre, alpha list of artists & albums, maybe alpha list of tracks (but this may just be easier to do with a find). But reports aren't so important as having Forms (in Access and in DBAnywhere) so I can just look something up quickly and easily.

I don't think there's any need to hold onto the Lent info -- so that once something was returned, those fields could just be cleared, rather than building a history of what was lent to whom at what time. I'm not a library, just a bit too forgetful to match the level of my generosity.

This may be a whole other level of complexity, but it would be neat to be able to build playlist ideas on the PDA. I can't envision how to do that--maybe have a playlist table and a playlist/track join table--but I find the iPod functionality a little too clunky and obtuse for me and it would be cool to be able to sit on the train and create playlists, even if I had to actually input them separately once I got back to the desktop--I'd be doing the thinking on the train which is the thing that is hard to get to when I'm home.

Lemme know if you wanna know more!

- Tracy

[Havana]

Though it's a separate program from Media Center, it might be what you are looking for: www.musicwise.com.

[sraymond]

Well, since you asked, I'll tell you what I want in a fair amount of detail.

Context: I am currently ripping my entire music collection to MC. I'm pretty close to done
.
.
.
the train which is the thing that is hard to get to when I'm home.

Lemme know if you wanna know more!

- Tracy

Well, it sounds like you want a fully-functional relational database on your PocketPC.  Are you familiar enough with Access to generate your own queries, forms, and reports if I create an XSLT that will populate the tables?

Do you need to update the database on the PocketPC?  If not, this gets a lot easier because "synching" is essentially a "delete existing records in the remote database and then do a complete import from the MC database".

I think you've piqued my curiosity - I'm going to play with XSLT this weekend and see if I can't create an XML that imports into Access while maintaining referential integrity.

Scott-

[tlongacre]

Though it's a separate program from Media Center, it might be what you are looking for: www.musicwise.com.

nope, I have musicwise. Have had it for ages. they've not updated it for years. That's a bad sign. Besides, why on earth do I wanna re-input all my info? never gonna happen.

[tlongacre]

Scott,

Well, the synch between Access and the PDA is handled by DBAnywhere -- that is what it does as a program.

I have the capability to do the queries and forms in Access, but not the time. I may have time next summer, but definitely not before then (own a business, going to school, active volunteer. . .)

[sraymond]

Well, the synch between Access and the PDA is handled by DBAnywhere -- that is what it does as a program.

I meant the synching between MC and Access (on the desktop).

I have the pleasure of being a salaried "full-time" student, so I've had some free time as of late.  It's looking to get a bit busier (I need to finish my thesis one of these days), but I might have time to give this some idea some time.

Scott-

[sraymond]

Hmm...  I spent a few hours playing with MS Access (which is pretty paltry when it comes to XML support) and a product called XML-DBMS.  Unfortunately, I can't get XML-DBMS running (it's a java application that depends on some other java apps and I *hate* CLASSPATHs).

I'm thinking maybe the best way to proceed is to create SQL statements to be run from within a database.   I'll keep thinking.  If anyone has an idea, I'm all ears.

Scott-

[scott_r]

Besides, the program is now slowing way down on me (on startup -- takes a good 10 minutes or so) which I think is a function of some smart/playlists being really large.

MC takes 10 mins to start? Are you sure it's not the MC XML Export plugin? If you've got that set to auto-start with MC then it will take aaaaaages with a 20,000 file library. Once you do get MC running, open the MC XML Export plugin and make sure that "Auto-start with MC" is disabled (at the bottom of the window).
If you don't need them I'd sugest deleting any Hard Disk Location view schemes you have (by default MC comes with four). This is what's causing the slowdown - then you can re-enable autostarting.

Scott.

[tlongacre]

Yes, I was reading the other thread about the Export plugin and realized that this must be what is slowing MC down. I uninstalled it 'cause I didn't know about the auto start feature. I just did an export and figured I'd just reinstall the plug-in the next time I needed it.

Can't tell you how happy I was to figure out what the problem was!

BTW, on that thread, you said you didn't have a very big library and I know mindracing sent you his. I sent mine as well since it is so large. But it was a very large file, so I don't know if you got it, or if it was useful.