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[cascius]

P.S. - Believe it or not be he never even heard of MC before i had emailed him..  that came as a total shock.

Well I'[m actually not surprised. While MC is the best all around Media Center software, it seems that they lack the advertising ability of other softwares.

WMP, Real Audio are known because of their proprietary wide spread codecs.
Itunes/ Quicktime player: Ipod + music store
Musicmatch Jukebox: comes with Ipod and other handhelds (god i hate that piece of nuts!)

I hope one day MC will be as present as those inferior softwares.

Maybe they could make a deal to sstart shipping with new handheld technology...

[gpvillamil]

P.S. - Believe it or not be he never even heard of MC before i had emailed him..  that came as a total shock.

Well I'[m actually not surprised. While MC is the best all around Media Center software, it seems that they lack the advertising ability of other softwares.

WMP, Real Audio are known because of their proprietary wide spread codecs.
Itunes/ Quicktime player: Ipod + music store
Musicmatch Jukebox: comes with Ipod and other handhelds (god i hate that piece of nuts!)

I hope one day MC will be as present as those inferior softwares.

Maybe they could make a deal to sstart shipping with new handheld technology...

Not to mention that WMP, RealPlayer, Winamp, iTunes happen to be free... which must have a lot to do with their widespread distribution.

It is very important that the multiple advantages of Media Center are clearly explained and easily communicated in order to justify the (reasonable) price. Some of the MC advantages (like Media Server, multi-zone, audio analysis, etc) are fantastic for knowledgeable users, but difficult to explain to a beginner.

I'd suggest splitting the forum, with a "Tips & Tricks" area that talks about using the more advanced features, and a "Development" area that talks about bugs & feature requests. Someone that is thinking about a purchase might misinterpret what goes on in the forum and get a distorted idea about bugs/stability. Whereas if you could point them to a part of the forum that is purely about using the product, they might understand the value of this software.

Oh, and I can't wait for G-Force! Thanks Andy!

[Rob L]

I certainly agree about the marketing/awareness issue. I'm getting pretty tired of explaining to people that I *don't* mean Windows Media Center Edition! It's a real problem.

And although Windows Media Player is free, there are costs: for instance you have to pay to be able to encode to MP3.

Similarly, WinAmp may be free, but you have to pay for the Pro version to still only get a subset of what MC does.

And clearly RealPlayer is heavily supported by advertising and trying to force you into subscribing for their services...

[jleerigby]

Speaking from a selfish point of view I'm very happy that MC has it's own niche market.  I don't want mass market software.  I like MC because it is unique, powerful, special and has a great community.  I don't want another WMP or MMJB.  Long may it continue.

[DocLotus]

Yes, RealPlayer / RealOne Trial version is free but like MC10 if you want all the features you must pay for it or subscribe to their service on a monthly basis... not so cheap

[gpvillamil]

Perhaps it would be interesting to draw a comparison chart of total cost of ownership for the various "free" music players compared with MC.

[Sauzee]

Speaking from a selfish point of view I'm very happy that MC has it's own niche market.  I don't want mass market software.  I like MC because it is unique, powerful, special and has a great community.  I don't want another WMP or MMJB.  Long may it continue.

Couldn't agree more

[KingSparta]

I am Sure That J River\JimH is aware Of The Issues Since they Have Been Talked About Many Times.

I Do Know That If There Is Any Constructive Ideas JimH And His Sales Department Is Willing To Lend A Ear As He Has Done Before.

[DocLotus]

What I really like about MC10 is the rich feature set, customizability, & slick interface that sets it apart & way above other players.  That is true value in my humble opinion.

It totally amazes me that the Europeans are trying to force Microsoft to remove Microsoft Media Player form Win XP.

I don't see Microsoft Media Player as another IE verses NetScape scenario.

Unlike the browser wars where both IE & NetScape were fairly even in capabilities, media players are different as there is no so-called "standard".  Most all media players will read most all file formats & a simple plug-in will take care of the ones that it won't currently read.

Media Player is ok I guess but a Media Center it is not.

[gpvillamil]

Actually, I would like for MC to have as great a market share as possible. Benefits?

* More support from hardware manufacturers of things like MP3 appliances and portables - consider how much effort SteveG has to spend reverse engineering the iPod, with no support from Apple
* Larger community of 3rd party developers of skins, plugins, visuals - think Winamp
* More money for J River to spend on development - shortened development cycle, more testing, more features, etc.
* More money for J River to spend on license fees for things like DVD & AAC codecs
* Ability to influence the market in terms of codec development, business models, standards, etc.

I think it's a bit selfish to try to keep MC as a hobby for a select few... though there is no reason why this can't continue, and the hard core user community is certainly a great asset!

In terms of how to do it, there are some options (and I am sure that J River has already explored most/all of them).

* Free version of MC with reduced feature set
* Bundling with hardware devices
* Close cooperation with specialist computer audio forums (iPodLounge, AVSForum) - doing a pretty good job here BTW
* Close cooperation with complementary software products (Girder, NetRemote, myHTPC, ZoomPlayer, etc) - have done in the past, but could streamline a bit more, maybe explore bundling/joint promotion? I really think there should be a one-stop purchase option for MC + Girder + DVD Codecs
* Reduce the learning curve - ie gather the most frequently asked questions from the Forum and make them easy accessible, have a Getting Started forum for new/prospective users that doesn't expose them to what appears to be a long list of bugs/trouble reports, etc.
* Some kind of system integration/configuration service - delivered through a mix of software and working with 3rd party consultants. It's taken me a year or so to get everything working just right, it would be great if new users could take advantage of the learning process that advanced users have gone through.
* Make sure that the "Wow!" features are easily visible and accessible "out of the box" - such as Theater View, Remote Server, Smartlists, Track Info options, Visualizations, Video & picture support, etc. I've seen too many posts along the lines of "I didn't know MC could do that..."

Most importantly, have a clear & compelling answer to "Why should I pay $25 for MC when WinAmp/WMP/iTunes is free?" - I believe there are reasons, but we just need to deal with this issue head-on, put it on the website, in the FAQ, support our answers with well thought arguments and PUT THEM IN A PLACE WHERE THEY ARE VISIBLE TO POSSIBLE BUYERS, NOT JUST EXISTING DEDICATED USERS!

[cryst]

My fear is that if MC became really huge, it wound inevitably devolve into what 99% of other players already are: Postage-stamp-sized cutesy-boxes that require a magnifying lens combined with the skills of a neurosurgeon to use with anything approaching ease, especially at higher resolutions.  That's what the kiddies want, apparently.  It's bad enough that we're stuck with skinned mode now with MC; I'd rather not go further down that path.  I use a player to (quite shockingly) just play music.  There are probably even two or three other people on the planet who do the same.

[gpvillamil]

Well, there are 9600 or so users registered on the forum. If all of them spent $25 every year upgrading, that means a total of $240,000 per year of revenue for J River, which isn't a lot.

So clearly MC has a userbase which is not represented in the forums, which probably represents the bulk of revenues. Got to pay attention to them too...

[JustinChase]

Actually, I would like for MC to have as great a market share as possible. Benefits?

* More support from hardware manufacturers of things like MP3 appliances and portables - consider how much effort SteveG has to spend reverse engineering the iPod, with no support from Apple
* Larger community of 3rd party developers of skins, plugins, visuals - think Winamp
* More money for J River to spend on development - shortened development cycle, more testing, more features, etc.
* More money for J River to spend on license fees for things like DVD & AAC codecs
* Ability to influence the market in terms of codec development, business models, standards, etc.

More money for J River to spend bringing us all to the twin cities to check out the new media lab, and get drunk.  woo hoo.

[paulr]

I don't even remember how I found out about JRiver, but when I first checked them out, the Jukebox was the only software that was available I think...

Years ago, I had paid for the full version of Musicmatch (included unlimited lifetime upgrades).  But after the upgrade fiasco that they put their users through (not honoring the lifetime upgrades), and the response to an email regarding lossless codec support (they weren't interested)....  Well, that was all that it took for me to switch to MC, and I am not looking back.

Every so often, I stumble upon a site that talks about media players, but I almost never see anyone suggest MC.  I have tried to point people here, but there is only so much one can do.

It's just kind of curious to me that such a great piece of software isn't more well known, simply because of its own merits.  And I still have no idea how I found out about it, but very glad I did!

[cascius]

Hmm, so someone took my post and made a new thread with it... Cool!  

I think we pretty much all agree on these points. I also think GPvillamil had some very good about advantages that would come with MC having a bigger market share.

To Paulr: Well I remember how I got to try MC: after reading the amazing review from CNET that stated it was the best media management software on the market. Damn right CNET!

-Olivier

[Rob L]

Yep, in a very recent (previous to current, I think) edition of a major UK PC magazine, they had a review of the "top" digital music players, and they included a couple I'd never heard of at all, and there was no sign of Media Center at all...

[Madcow]

It'll be interesting to see if J River can do more with MC10 than they have been able to do with other versions.  To my mind it's the first genuinely stable and robust version of MC they've produced, and the first I can recommend without qualification to others (previous versions have always been more "it's very good but you have to watch out for this... and this... and this").  The past few weeks have clearly been frustrating for the developers - endless bug fixes can be soul-destroying - but it's exactly what needed to be done, arguably what should have been done prior to the releases of 9.0 and 9.1, and gives J River a solid basis from which to push their product.

The problem with MC is definitely that it's expensive - people are so used to free media players, it's very hard to push something that costs money, let alone something that appears to be in a constant cycle of further paid-for upgrades - and also that it's overwhelming for new users.  For 10.1 or 11, J River need to think hard about how to simplify the product without losing the functionality.  Even as someone who's been using the product for many months, I still find myself having to think hard about how to achieve something, or stumbling across features I never knew were there.  I don't know how this could be achieved - maybe a new Mode, somewhere between Full Screen and Mini mode, that presented the most commonly-used functions in a more accessible manner?  or perhaps something as simple as a comprehensive tutorial? - but it's certainly going to be a challenge.

To my mind the worst thing that's happened to MC was the release of iTunes.  Almost accidentally it found itself with a niche in the market - it worked exceptionally well with the iPod and was a hundred times better than MusicMatch - and it attracted a lot of users in that timeframe, including myself.  Now, iTunes provides what is fundamentally a really excellent music player for the masses, and most people won't see why they need to look at MC.  I'm not sure I would have made the switch had iTunes been available at the time I bought my iPod; of course, now I've been using MC for a while, I could never go back, but I'm sure you all appreciate the problem.  How do you sell something to people who don't even know they need it?