Topic: Inexpensive way to send MC audio 100' to stereo system. (Read 3914 times)

lalittle · « **on:** April 08, 2004, 05:16:38 am »

What's the least expensive way to get audio from my computer to a stereo system about 50 to 100 feet away -- without losing quality. I've never had much luck with wireless products built for this type of purpose -- too much interference and to much quality loss. I don't mind running cable through an attic, but line level signals over regular audio cables is obviously out of the question.

The only solution I've come with so far would be to split the output of the sound card and use a couple audio/video baluns with CAT 5 cable. The problem is that the baluns are still at least $60 each from what I've seen, and once you add the cable and connectors, you're pretty close to something like an Audiotron (which I asked about in another thread.)

I'm wondering if there is a really inexpensive way to simply get the audio into the stereo for the time being while I investigate the Audiotron type products.

Thanks for any information on this,

Larry

cascius · « **Reply #1 on:** April 08, 2004, 05:29:07 am »

Well, actually, in my parents house in San Francisco, the main receiver is in the 1st floor and we installed fat ass cables to run to inwall speakers 2 floors above and on the other side of the house. It was probably quite expensive though considering the gauge of those cables; but it can take the distance (70+ feet) without any noticeable loss.

Just a thought,

-Olivier

lalittle · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2004, 05:35:24 am »

Quote from: cascius on April 08, 2004, 05:29:07 am

we installed fat ass cables to run to inwall speakers 2 floors above

It sounds like you ran wire for speaker connections, not line level audio. Speaker wire can be run over much longer distances without loss since the signal is so much more powerful.

I need to get line level audio to the other location since the amp is in the same room as the speakers and not in the room with the computer. Regardless of the guage of the wire, line level signals are much more susceptible to interference over long runs.

Thanks for you input,

Larry

cascius · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2004, 05:42:18 am »

How about optical cables a hundred feet long?

I'm sure that wouldn't be expensive at all, lmao.

Well, good luck with it.

-Olivier

glynor · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2004, 07:09:56 am »

There are these things:

http://www.minicom.com/av_avds.htm

I have no idea how expensive they are, but they sound cool. I can't remember where, but I have also seen the same thing that does it with svideo, AC3, and 5.1 sound, so you might want to Google for it a little.

I've actually done it with cat-5 and just sending the line out directly through the cat5 (by re-wiring a ethernet wall plate to a RCA jack wall plate). I don't know if I would go this route for you, as I only have it running about 60' and there is some audio degradation even at that distance (it's not too bad though).

nivw · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2004, 07:24:36 am »

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/bchafy/mp3.html
I am figuring out what to do with these two pentium 133 I got. one will server as a router, while the other may end up as a music client.
just slap on a sound card, a remote (lirc), no need for keyboard/mouse/screen)

I may report when I get it runing,
Niv

Mastiff · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2004, 08:26:03 am »

Use a cheap ass RadioShack mini jack to phono cable to send SPDIF to a receiver with digtal inputs. I use that, and there's no dropouts (and of course no loss, we're talking about bits and byte here, so don't believe the cable voodoo cult that says that they can hear the difference between cheap and expensive cables for SPDIF - that's pure bull). You can of course run analogue that far, but the loss will be there, no matter what kind of cable you use, if you don't go totally over board like cascius. I'm pretty sure his cables cost more than my receiver!

JohnT · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2004, 08:30:03 am »

How about running digital audio over cheap coax cable?

Nolonemo · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2004, 11:57:26 am »

I did this, although my run is only about 60'. I run the speaker-out audio from my sound card into the aux in of my receiver. I used RG-6 quad shield coax, and ran three lengths: left channel, right channel and video (so I can see Theatre View on my TV and use an ATI Remote Wonder to control the music). Quad shield coax is under $20 for 100 feet, and the connectors are cheap of course. The run was a combo crawlspace/outside wall deal (the living room is built on a concrete slab), so I put in wall plates that have F to RCA connectors in them so the setup would look nice (to the extent that you can see it), and use a stereo minijack to RCA out of the pc and an ordinary RCA patch cord into the receiver. My research indicated that you should be able to do a 100' line level run. The reason for the coax is to prevent interference with the line level signal. It seems to work fine for me. Here are some links for materials:

Coax: http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&Start=2&ObjectGroup_ID=474&sm=1&so=2&search_type=33360852&desc=ASC

Wall plates and connectors:

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&DID=7&CATID=39&ObjectGroup_ID=192&filter=single+gang

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&DID=7&CATID=43&ObjectGroup_ID=276&filter=three

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&DID=7&CATID=43&ObjectGroup_ID=277&filter="F"

I really like this setup, and it was a LOT cheaper than messing with a dedicated wireless or ethernet box, most of which have crappy software anyway. This way I get to use MC to run the music.

Total cost for 200' of coax, connectors, new video card and ATI remote was around $150. Of course, if all you want is the wiring, that would be around $50.

Good luck.

(BTW, having said all this, if you can do digital to digital over the coax, even better, and if you have a video card with digital video out and an HD TV with digital video in, that would be better also.....)

fex · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2004, 12:57:00 pm »

I love all the good answers, but what about all these walls?

Mastiff · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2004, 01:56:59 pm »

Through the wall, up on the ceiling, up on the attic and down again in the correct room.

Nolonemo · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2004, 02:05:51 pm »

One more thing. I had thought about using Cat5 for the audio run, but for reasons I can't recall, thought the Coax would be better. But if you do use Cat5, why use Baluns at all, just wire the Cat5 straight into a stereo miniplug (or if you are using the wall plate method, to an RCA plug that will plug into the back of an RCA to RCA wall plate connector)? I don't think the Baluns will convert the analog signal to digital, which would be the only reason to use them (I could be wrong about this, though).

nivw · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2004, 04:56:28 pm »

Control-Alt-Recycle:
http://slashdot.org/articles/04/04/08/1226232.shtml?tid=137&tid=164&tid=185
did some googling and it seems that there are also quite enoth windows based solutions.

I write this as I gather you also want to be able to control the music u play.

one linux project has all software needed to drive a small 20$ LCD using the parralel. very nice.

niv

lalittle · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2004, 12:22:57 am »

Quote

I write this as I gather you also want to be able to control the music u play.

Actually, I'm interested in BOTH ways -- i.e. I'm interested in what my options are that would allow me to control the content from the stereo system (something like the Audiotron from TurtleBeach) AND I'm interested in finding the least expensive method of simply getting the audio output of the computer to the stereo.

My thinking was that I'd simply set it up for now without control capabilities (i.e. simply get the audio to the stereo) and then research the "full control" options like the Audiotron. What I'm finding, however, is that the cost of getting just the audio to the stereo is nearly as expensive as an Audiotron -- the baluns (which are apparenlty needed for a clean signal over this distance) are at least $60 each, so that's already $120 without any cable or connectors. Since the Audiotron is only $199, it seems a bit wasteful to spend $120 for a temporary solution.

Unfortunately, nobody is responding to my "Audiotron" thread, so I'm having some difficulty researching this as it pertains specifically to MC users.

Thanks again,

Larry

glynor · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2004, 08:02:37 am »

I've never used the audiotron, but I can tell you that I had nothing but trouble with my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card (which came out around the same time as the audiotron).

As for control ...

What about an ATI Remote Wonder II? If you use one of those, and run the Video Out of your computer to your TV (with a hotkey combo set to fix the resoluton/enable the TV out/mapped to a key on the remote), then you've solved the remote issue and gotten yourself not just an audio player, but a video one as well!

Nolonemo · « **Reply #15 on:** April 10, 2004, 11:38:38 am »

lalittle, can you post a link with info about baluns that's diving your thinking. From what I have read so far, the purpose of a balun in an audio run is to eliminate ground loop and other interference. They do not appear to act as signal boosters, though I could be wrong about that. I think in the length of run you are talking about using coax will sufficiently address the interference problem (at least it has for me). Of course if a triple coax run won't' work for you, then you're back to square 1. Although before I shelled out $120 for baluns for sure I'd spend a couple of bucks on some bulk cat5, wire it up to connectors and see how that worked. It might be that for the length of run you have the twisting would provide enough shielding and you wouldn't need baluns at all. When I was starting out, I did a test running from the PC to the receiver over 50' of stere minijack extension cord and couldn't hear any difference between that and a 6' run.

As for contol, you just can't beat MC10's theater view on a TV (I have a 32" regular TV).

lalittle · « **Reply #16 on:** April 10, 2004, 04:32:29 pm »

In this particular setup, the TV is not where the stereo is, so these approaches wouldn't work.

As far as the baluns go, based on my experience with audio in general it's difficult to send an audio signal over this distance without using an actual balanced run. The twisting of the wire pairs in a cat5 cable will help reject noise, but a balanced connection will actually cancel out any noise that enters the signal. Remember that Cat5 is actually designed to carry a balanced signal -- i.e. it's not just the twisted pairs that make it work.

You may be right, however, that in certain cirumstances where the run isn't too long the cat5 will be enough to get an acceptable signal across. Your advice to try this first may be worthwhile. The real way to "do it right," however, is defintely to use baluns. I'll see if I can find a link that talks about this and post it here.

Larry

pbreet · « **Reply #17 on:** April 10, 2004, 05:10:19 pm »

Quote from: JohnT on April 08, 2004, 08:30:03 am

How about running digital audio over cheap coax cable?

That's what I use, RG6 coax cable, cheap, easy to work with, and no losses.

Radio Shack and others sell adapters to convert the coax cable connectors to male RCA connectors.

lalittle · « **Reply #18 on:** April 10, 2004, 05:20:42 pm »

Quote from: pbreet on April 10, 2004, 05:10:19 pm

Quote from: JohnT on April 08, 2004, 08:30:03 am
How about running digital audio over cheap coax cable?
That's what I use, RG6 coax cable, cheap, easy to work with, and no losses.

Radio Shack and others sell adapters to convert the coax cable connectors to male RCA connectors.

Over what length runs?

Thanks,

Larry

pat1066 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 10, 2004, 06:21:37 pm »

Help an uninformed lurker:
Is digital audio SPDIF or digital speaker output or something else
Thanks,
Pat.

JohnT · « **Reply #20 on:** April 12, 2004, 10:12:21 am »

Quote from: pcorker on April 10, 2004, 06:21:37 pm

Help an uninformed lurker:
Is digital audio SPDIF or digital speaker output or something else
Thanks,
Pat.

Speaker output is always analog and high power. The usual way to move sound over a long run is to run analog or digital from an output on your PC's sound card to an audio amplifier in another location. The speaker outputs come from the audio amplifier.

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Author Topic: Inexpensive way to send MC audio 100' to stereo system. (Read 3914 times)

fex