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[soren]

Since it is beyond me why CUE file support has not yet been implemented (got to be the most asked for feature for the last couple of years now.. yes I think it has been requested for years now!) I just wondered if we can have an alternative approach.

Whenever MC finds a cue file could it start creating .APL files and tag them as normal.
It should then import the APL files and ignore the APE file.

Is this an acceptable approach?

/Sören

[hit_ny]

Join the club....  

Whenever MC finds a cue file could it start creating .APL files and tag them as normal. It should then import the APL files and ignore the APE file.

Is this an acceptable approach?

I support this and would be interested to know what JRiver thinks about CUE.

What are the issues ?

[hit_ny]

Might want to change the title of your post Soren to include the word CUE in it, i think it got missed, something like "Cue support"

There is demand for CUE on this board.

[hit_ny]

*BUMP*

I  have split[/u] a few albums that have low BPMs and are CBR only. The result seems ok.

Faster BPMs and VBR are not recommended with the above method, with VBR its not possible to bit-perfectly combine a split album so best not to split it (unless u have a backup copy). Doing a wav compare finds differences as well with the original.

I use VBR a lot as it gives good quality for size.

..would be great if they could be used as is...without having to resort to hacks like the above

[milknkukis]

cue support would be great, it would mean i could get rid of powerdvd and deamon tools in one go!

[hit_ny]

it would mean i could get rid of powerdvd and deamon tools in one go!

Can you explain how you use CUE with powerdvd and daemon tools ?

I was referring to the audio side of things, was not aware CUE could be applied to Video as well.

....the more support for CUE there is, the better

[Sauzee]

It must be difficult to implement.

Win Amp users are always requesting cue support as well. All they have is an ancient plug-in which doesn't work well now.

As far as I'm aware foobar is the only app that has native support for cue files - but its media library is very poor compared to MC.

[hit_ny]

It must be difficult to implement.

Lots of things in MC are difficult to implement,  MCs media library is a glaring example. Who makes one that works as well !!

Win Amp users are always requesting cue support as well. All they have is an ancient plug-in which doesn't work well now.

Guerillasoft guy who implemented it did a runner. I'm still using winamp2.91 (for cue stuff).

I'm curious how good the media library for winamp5 is ?  i tried winamp3 some time back and it was not worth the upgrade.

As far as I'm aware foobar is the only app that has native support for cue files - but its media library is very poor compared to MC.

Yep and the interesting thing is you can mix up the apls and it still plays so i say the fubar cue implementation is even better than the cue plugin for winamp 2.x. Its possible for example to pick a few apls from an album and mix them up wth apls from another. I was floored when i learned this.

and fubar is open-source, so the implementation is not a secret.

if this gets leveraged in MC with its library thats 2 apps going into the trash.

[milknkukis]

Can you explain how you use CUE with powerdvd and daemon tools ?

Sorry, my mistake i think we are talking about different things....
I was thinking of the the CD image files (*.cue + *.bin), a format i have a few SVCD's in. I think what you are talking about is some type of playlist correct? My mistake, sorry!

What i would like is SVCD support. Daemon tools allows me to mount *.cue files as a virtual drive and play it without having to burn a disc (it also means if you create several virtual drives and create a playlist you don't notice the change from disc to disc).

[negopus]

To put it simple: what is CUE? A semi-standard (not yet complete) for defining markers inside of mp3/audio files?

Nothing to do with CD burning, of course.

[hit_ny]

To put it simple: what is CUE?

Look at xen-uno's answer

A semi-standard (not yet complete) for defining markers inside of mp3/audio files?

Nothing to do with CD burning, of course.

Actually CUE was created by Golden Hawk in their cdrwin program as a way to specify a cd-layout before mastering/burning  a CD.


Its been used since to define markers in audio. Its quite precise in that its possible to define where a mp3 track starts right down to the frame. The reason its used mostly with mp3 is that separating mix tracks (or ripping mix CDs as separate tracks) creates a perceptible gap between tracks (even with MC's Gapless playback option),  which is more noticeable with higher BPM mixes.

So to avoid the "gaps" problem, compilation CDs are ripped as one long track+CUE. Cue with an appropriate plugin (available for winamp & fubar) allows to display track names while this big mp3 is playing.

APE does not have this gapless play problem, but mp3 is pretty much a legacy standard that will be with us for a long time and is widely used on portable players. I'm willing to sacrifice a lack of track information on a portable as long as it can be heard gaplessly. But on the desktop, and with MCs power it seems natural to want to have this information.

CUE is also used by daemon tools to create a virtual cd-drive, quite a handy idea if you want to watch a movie without having to burn to CD/DVD+import into MC. In other words, a movie can be viewed in raw CUE/BIN format on the HD but it actually appears as a CD to MC (using daemon tools)

[negopus]

Interesting, yet I cannot grasp the link between audio and the  format used for CD burning.

I would use CUE more or less in the following way, adding "sub-indexes" to tracks, but I would need a label for each "sub-index", such as Intro, Verse 1, Chorus 1, Verse 2, Chorus 2, Bridge, Solo, Ending

FILE "Artist - Track.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Track"
    PERFORMER "Artist"
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:00:30
    INDEX 02 00:01:00
    INDEX 03 00:01:30
    INDEX 04 00:02:00

Moreover, markers could be shown when seeing a complete waveform view, letting you "see" the track structure.

[hit_ny]

Interesting, yet I cannot grasp the link between audio and the  format used for CD burning.

With burning it allowed to set markers very precisely so that the burner program would apply them. This same concept  is being used to set track markers when listening to an mp3. It must be understood here that its the CUE plugin (in winamp or fubar) that takes note of the cue file and displays the relevant track names, the actual mp3 file is untouched. The markers are specified in the Cue file (txt file) that references the mp3 file.

I would use CUE more or less in the following way, adding "sub-indexes" to tracks, but I would need a label for each "sub-index", such as Intro, Verse 1, Chorus 1, Verse 2, Chorus 2, Bridge, Solo, Ending

I am not aware that any of the CUE plugins will display subindex titles.  Dont think that sub-index works with TITLE. I think you would have to use TRACK to specify indexes and use some sort of naming convention to make things clearer eg.

FILE "Artist - Track.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Track 1"
    PERFORMER "Artist"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "Track 1 - Intro"
    PERFORMER "--"
    INDEX 01 00:00:30
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
   TITLE "Track 1 - Verse1"
    PERFORMER "--"
    INDEX 01 00:01:00
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
   TITLE "Track 1 - Chorus1"
    PERFORMER "--"
    INDEX 01 00:01:30
    ... and so on

Moreover, markers could be shown when seeing a complete waveform view, letting you "see" the track structure.

I think this job might be better handled in Media Editor (dunno if Media Editor can do this as yet), or better in Wavelab.

[xen-uno]

I wonder...has anyone done a comparison between an ape apl and a flac cuesheet? I don't have any 1 CD to 1 file ape rips, so if someone has an apl of Dark Side of the Moon (or any album) in a 1 file rip, could they post it here?

Better yet...post it here

10^-27

[negopus]

I am not aware that any of the CUE plugins will display subindex titles.  Dont think that sub-index works with TITLE. I think you would have to use TRACK to specify indexes and use some sort of naming convention to make things clearer eg.

FILE "Artist - Track.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Track 1"
    PERFORMER "Artist"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "Track 1 - Intro"
    PERFORMER "--"
    INDEX 01 00:00:30
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
   TITLE "Track 1 - Verse1"
    PERFORMER "--"
    INDEX 01 00:01:00
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
   TITLE "Track 1 - Chorus1"
    PERFORMER "--"
    INDEX 01 00:01:30
    ... and so on

Far too complex! I think I will never use CUE this way.

Moreover, markers could be shown when seeing a complete waveform view, letting you "see" the track structure.

I think this job might be better handled in Media Editor (dunno if Media Editor can do this as yet), or better in Wavelab.

Yes, I know that Media Editor (or any audio editor) is better suited to display a wave together with sub-index marks, but I would prefer a waveform view inside Media Center, to see the track structure while listening to it.

[hit_ny]

ar too complex! I think I will never use CUE this way.

Agreed But the possibilty to have an arbitrary number of names for 1 track is there and you can do whatever you want with it.

Yes, I know that Media Editor (or any audio editor) is better suited to display a wave together with sub-index marks, but I would prefer a waveform view inside Media Center, to see the track structure while listening to it.

I wonder whether a suitable waveform visualiztion plugin could do this.  Or better.... they integrate media editor into MC, now wouldn't that be interesting. An extra view to comlement the others, call it Media Editor View.

[negopus]

Agreed But the possibilty to have an arbitrary number of names for 1 track is there and you can do whatever you want with it.

What will the effect be on database? Will there be n duplicates for each track?

I wonder whether a suitable waveform visualiztion plugin could do this.  Or better.... they integrate media editor into MC, now wouldn't that be interesting. An extra view to comlement the others, call it Media Editor View.

That's exacylt what I meant, but I didi't come up with tje catchy name "Media Editor View".

[hit_ny]

What will the effect be on database? Will there be n duplicates for each track?

No. Say you want 4 subindexes on 1 track. What i suggested above is a workaround for the lack of sub-index support in CUE. Those 4 sub-indexes are actually 4 tracks as seen by the cue plugin. i suggested using a naming scheme so when you saw this, it would be evident. Its a hack for sure.

But it does not rule out the  possibility that JRiver could add MC specific CUE extensions to address this.

Personally i dont have any need for subindexes, just track markers and more importantly displaying individual tracks so i can rate/random acess/AA them

I wonder whether a suitable waveform visualiztion plugin could do this.  Or better.... they integrate media editor into MC, now wouldn't that be interesting. An extra view to comlement the others, call it Media Editor View.

That's exacylt what I meant, but I didi't come up with tje catchy name "Media Editor View".

, if enough ppl make a loud enough sound it might happen.

[TAFKAFEX]

Or just (direct) cut the file in separate tracks and save them whitout the need of tagging again. And keep the 'mixed' or 'live' file for other occasions.

Try mp3DirecCut (freeware) at

http://www.uni-frankfurt.de/~pesch/