Topic: Karenware's Replicator and Fragmentation? (Read 15420 times)

Jakester · « **on:** July 28, 2004, 05:29:24 pm »

I used Karenware's Replicator www.karenware.com to back-up my music collection from an internal 250GB drive to an external 400GB USB 2.0 drive. Worked great. The 400GB drive was brand new and Replicator was the first thing to write to it. After the backup I analyzed the disk with Windows Disk Defragmenter and it was almost all red (fragmented) on the display and recommended the drive be defragged. I did, then ran Replicator a few days later after a bunch of changes had been made. Again, very fragmented after the backup.

Anyone else seen this? Anyone with ideas as to why Replicator would cause such fragmentation? Especially the first time it backed up my music files, with a clean disk to back up to, it seems the files would have packed nice and tight onto the external drive with little to no fragmentation. I plan to play with copying files to internal and external drives using basic Explorer and Replicator to see if the tool/drive type combination makes any difference. I have two young kids, though, so who knows when I'll get around to it!

Also, I've read that with today's bigger faster drives there is no need to defrag anymore. So maybe this is a non-issue. Also, I suppose a horribly defragged back-up doesn't matter as long as it can not in any way introduce reliability issues. I just remember reloading my old 8086 on a monthly basis due to unreliable drives and am still a bit gun shy (although I've experienced no hard drive failures for at least 10 years now ...)

Comments?

Thanks.

Omni · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2004, 05:47:47 pm »

No comments about your specific issue, but I will say that it is my opinion (stress: opinion) that defragmenting a drive is never a bad thing.

It just seems logical to me that the less the drive heads have to bounce back and forth, the longer the little stepper motor (or whatever) will last.

Less wear and tear, so to speak. <shrug>

(Of course, as this depends what's being defragmented. If the files are rarely accessed, then obviously the physical act of defragmenting may yield more wear and tear.

)

KingSparta · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2004, 05:55:45 pm »

Quote

Anyone with ideas as to why Replicator would cause such fragmentation?

it's normal, and this program uses Visual Basic Calls to move and copy files. so it is not the program that is doing anything weard.

Ps. I looked at the source code

DocLotus · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2004, 06:52:51 pm »

I use Shutdwon Plus Pro to shutdown my computer.

Among other things, I have it set up to run the default Win XP Defrag program each night at shutdown. The first time it ran it took a couple of hours on a 120 Gig drive; each night thereafter, it was shorter & shorter until now it takes just 5 minutes to do a complete defrag.

What is happening is that only the last days fragmentation needs to be done as older files dated before today have not been used so they are not fragmented.

I turned defrag off for a few days to see what would happen when it was turned back on after some time & it again took a long time to run the first day but quickly returned to 5 minutes after a few days.

ShutDown Plus Pro is a wonderful product that gives you complete control over what you want to run at shutdown.

I liked it so much that I not only bought the program, but am now an official BETA tester for them.

www.wmsoftware.com

Omni · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2004, 07:46:22 pm »

Quote from: DocLotus on July 28, 2004, 06:52:51 pm

I liked it so much that I not only bought the program, but am now an official BETA tester for them.

Hey, no moonlighting allowed, buddy. I'm reporting you to management.

DocLotus · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2004, 07:55:29 pm »

Can't help it.

SD+ Pro is the MC of shutdown peograms

LonWar · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2004, 08:13:42 pm »

I use Diskeeper from Executive soft...

I get amazing results and it is FAST...

Omni · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2004, 08:31:36 pm »

Quote from: imjustagamer on July 28, 2004, 08:13:42 pm

I use Diskeeper from Executive soft...

I get amazing results and it is FAST...

*nods* Yeah, that's what I use, too. After a month or so, I finally took the plunge and did the "Set It and Forget It" thing so it would always be running in the background. I was initially hesitant because I feared it would bog down my system, but I am happy to report (to any skeptics) that it doesn't slow down the system one nary bit. (And like your name, I'm a gamer, so it's important to me to keep my machine as lean and mean as possible, and never has my FPS rate dropped because of DiskKeeper.) DiskKeeper rocks.

Jakester · « **Reply #8 on:** July 29, 2004, 11:04:18 am »

I'll check out ShutDown, but does it do anything that can't be done for free this way http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,115628,00.asp ?

Diskeeper also sounds nice - another thing to check out for sure.

KingSparta - can you explain a bit more why this is "normal"? I knew Karen uses VB, which did concern me a bit (I'm all for a solid compiled language like C or C++). Is it her choice to use VB that somehow causes excessive fragmentation? Do you use Replicator?

Thanks.

Rands · « **Reply #9 on:** July 29, 2004, 11:17:48 am »

Interesting. I didn't realize people still shut down their computers. The only time I ever shut mine down is if I'm leaving for a few days. Otherwise, it just hums away and is always instantly ready when I need it.

KingSparta · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2004, 11:54:59 am »

Quote

KingSparta - can you explain a bit more why this is "normal"? I knew Karen uses VB, which did concern me a bit (I'm all for a solid compiled language like C or C++). Is it her choice to use VB that somehow causes excessive fragmentation? Do you use Replicator?

the commands in vb is like

COPY FILE FileName1 TO FileName2

or

Name FileName1 As FileName2

Name is really a rename, but if you put in a new location it is moved.

when files are moved\copied it is really handled by the OS and the drive

when i file is copied to a drive it may be fragmented when doing so even if it is updating a file.

DocLotus · « **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2004, 11:57:00 am »

Hi Jakester;

I saw the PC World link... Looks like a lot of work to me using a lot of things that can cause trouble... Windows Schedule, creating a shutdown file, creating batch files (anyone still use those ? ).

I used to do it that way but was always running into limitations such as...

* I wanted certain program to run on only certain days.
* Wanted my backup program to run one way on M, T, W, T, F, & S but run another way on Sunday (but, only after a certain time of day).
* Wanted shutdown programs to run only once in a day & not for every shutdown.
* Wanted the ability to quickly (with a single mouse click) temporary bypass the running of all shutdown programs for a shutdown.
* Wanted some programs to run only once a week.
* Wanted some programs to run only after a certain time of day.
* Wanted to be able to instantly make changes without modifying BAT files, folders, & the Windows Scheduler.
* Wanted the flexibility to make the shutdown process work on my terms.
* Wanted the ability to quickly add a new shutdown program & configure it to run just they way I wanted & only when I wanted.
* Wanted the ability to run certain programs only on certain drives & not others at shutdown.

Yes, SD+ Pro does a whole lot more then simply run some programs & shutdown the computer.

It does all of the above & much, much more through a simple tabbed interface.

A small icon stays in your Task Bar (next to the clock) where you can very quickly bring it up for instant modification.

SD+ Pro also uses almost no resources while in the Task Bar. It does not come alive until you do a shutdown which can also be accomplished simply by double-clicking on the SD+ Pro icon. At that point you have the choice to run all items at shutdown or you can uncheck some items or uncheck a master do not run box.

The SD+ Pro shutdown items are added to the normal Windows shutdown box so all shutdown items are there on shutdown.

VERY SLICK INDEED

I have used many, many so-called shut down programs over the last three years (I usually try them all out) but when I discovered SD+ Pro I was in love.

KingSparta · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2004, 07:26:33 am »

I am still wondering who makes a

Quote

external 400GB USB 2.0 drive.

the largest i can find is 300 gigs, and i have one

LonWar · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2004, 07:39:41 am »

Quote from: KingSparta on July 30, 2004, 07:26:33 am

I am still wondering who makes a

Quote
external 400GB USB 2.0 drive.

the largest i can find is 300 gigs, and i have one

LaCie Big Disk (USB2, Firewire 800 and Firewire 400)
Upto 500 gb at 7200rpm and 8mb cache

LaCie BiggerDisk also Tripple interface, 1TB.....
7200rpm and 8mb cache.

KingSparta · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2004, 07:46:15 am »

interesting, i wonder who makes the drive it's self

LonWar · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2004, 07:50:37 am »

LaCie as far as I know are there own company. They Manufacture the drives.

Oh ya they now have a 1.6 TB drive...

http://www.lacie.com/

1.6 TB of ape's... Now that would be a collection.

I looked into getting one a few days ago, There a little more expensive then the Maxtor one touch.

But the drives for anything over 250gb has a faster goto time.

KingSparta · « **Reply #16 on:** July 30, 2004, 08:01:50 am »

Quote

FireWire 800, FireWire 400 and USB 2.0 connection

the firewire 800 sounds intresting, because i never heard of it.

something about the company

http://www.lacie.com/about/

i never heard of them

Fixer · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2004, 11:22:14 am »

Neither VB or C++ standard file functions access the low level routines (directly) for disk I/O. The language does not determine at all where a file or part of a file is written to the hard disk.

Sir Alan · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2004, 12:03:12 pm »

Quote

I use Diskeeper from Executive soft...
I get amazing results and it is FAST...

I've used Diskeeper Pro for two years and would recommend it to anyone. Excellent product, good value. Just set it to run in the early hours while you're asleep and forget it's there.

Quote

I didn't realize people still shut down their computers ... it just hums away and is always instantly ready when I need it.

I hope you're using all those spare cpu cycles for something useful, like cancer research: http://www.grid.org/download/

KingSparta · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2004, 03:10:51 pm »

Quote from: Fixer on July 31, 2004, 11:22:14 am

Neither VB or C++ standard file functions access the low level routines (directly) for disk I/O. The language does not determine at all where a file or part of a file is written to the hard disk.

I think I said that, But not as Techie

Wile E. One · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2004, 04:44:46 pm »

Quote

the firewire 800 sounds intresting, because i never heard of it.

I believe this is a Mac thing... PCs get stuck with the 400

Jakester · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2004, 10:45:52 pm »

DocLotus - Sure does sound like a nice utility program. I'll have to dig into it a bit. Thanks for all the details!

KingSparta, Fixer - thanks for the info. Makes sense. Not sure why I would have expected Karen's Replicator to do low-level I/O as if it were a device driver.

Yep, my 400GB external drive is a Lacie triple-interface (Firewire 400/800 USB1.1/2.0). Works like a charm, but the case likes to buzz at times - a simple touch quiets it back down - a simple resonance problem. It doesn't actually have a 400GB drive (like the Hitachi: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,115839,00.asp) but instead has two 200GB drives in a Raid 0 arrangement. Their 500GB drive is just two 250GB drives, etc.

DocLotus · « **Reply #22 on:** August 01, 2004, 06:11:12 am »

Jakester;

I forgot to memtion some another neat things about SD+ Pro.

You can tell SD+ Pro to run any single (or all) shut down items at...

* Shutdown.
* Restart.
* Logoff.
* Standby.
* Hybernate.
* Or simply lock the computer so no one else can get into it.

The latest version is now up to v6.5.

WMSoftware has many versions of SD+ for single end users or networks. It is also avaliable in Standard, or Pro versions.

KingSparta · « **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2004, 10:12:55 am »

i would like to see a raid 1 usb external drive that would be cool

anyone know of one?

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Karenware's Replicator and Fragmentation? (Read 15420 times)

Fixer