Topic: Is there a soundcard limit for multizone? (Read 3366 times)

m00j · « **on:** January 10, 2005, 07:12:37 pm »

Is there a limit to the number of soundcards that will work reliably in a PC?

For my multi zone setup I was planning on running 4 Sound Blaster Live 24 Bit cards (giving me a theoretical maximum of 12 zones).

In reality I have 9 separate zones with one containing 3 sub zones that can be turned on/off. At absolute most only 4 of those would be playing at any one time and most likely it will never be more than 2. I just want the flexibility of choosing which room I am listening in.

Mastiff · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2005, 01:42:30 am »

No, I haven't seen that yet. I believe my personal best was seven zones with one card for each, and that didn't give me any problems. But one thing about those SoundBlaster Live!: You need to use the kX drivers for that, and playback is no problem at all. What is a problem is turning on and off inputs (for syncronized playback from one zone to all zones). Which is why I now have dumped those drivers from my main media server, and I'm instead using several different types of sound cards:C-Media, Audigy, Live!, SoundBlaster PCI128. I need two more, and for that I'm going to use one Envy based card and one external USB card. One of the reasons for this is that it's tidier, since you can see right away what card is what, instead of what you get with for instance two C-Media cards (which I have used without any other problems, mind you): Two cards named the same in the zone configuration view.

Bill Kearney · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2005, 06:36:00 am »

I'm using two external USB soundcards; the entry-level Creative MP3 cards, each off their own port of a PCI USB-2.0 card. They work reasonably well with the exception of MC11.168 not being able to properly select them in DirectSound mode. CPU consumption, with both of them playing along with a motherboard ESS chipset, hovers around 25-33%. This on a 1GHz/256mb box running XP. I'm carefully planning the USB setup as to avoid swamping any one port with more traffic that necessary. I've a firewire card that could host others but as yet no external devices are available at reasonable prices.

Mastiff · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2005, 07:28:48 am »

Wow! I've got around 40 % CPU when playing 7 zones at the same time on my server, with a server OS and an AMD XP-2600. Do these USB cards steal a lot more CPU?

Bill Kearney · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2005, 05:27:12 pm »

Quote from: Mastiff on January 11, 2005, 07:28:48 am

Wow! I've got around 40 % CPU when playing 7 zones at the same time on my server, with a server OS and an AMD XP-2600. Do these USB cards steal a lot more CPU?

I don't know that they do. The jump from 33% on a 1Ghz box with 3 zones to 40% on a 2600 with 7 zones might be an equivalent consumption of CPU. I'm sure what *is* different is the amount of USB bandwidth being consumed.

I've got my players spread out on individual USB ports but they're still cranking through the same card. Thus far I can live with the consumption. I'm out of slots on the box unless I yank the as yet unused firewire card. I'm figuring by the time I get around to needing more than just four zones there should be reasonably priced fireware-based output soundcards available. Or if not I'll either replace it with another USB card or a PCI soundcard that does multiple zones with as little hassle as the separate USB devices.

Mastiff · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2005, 01:37:17 am »

Lisa discovered that DSPs through the DirectX interface plug-in will steal a lot of CPU, and I'm using that, so I guess without those plug-ins I'd be much lower in usage.

m00j · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2005, 10:10:10 pm »

thanks guys!

So there is no way to rename the soundcards at all? The lives are just so cheap compared to everything else so I figgured they would be best. I guess it won't be too much of a hassle once I have it all set up.

The computer it will run on is a 1.8Ghz Pentium 4 - should be more than powerful enough. If not I can overclock it to 2.4 easily

Mastiff · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2005, 09:38:05 am »

No, there is no way to rename the cards.

m00j · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2005, 09:40:07 am »

yeah I know you can name zones, I thought there may have been a way to name cards as well. Oh well I will just have some fun working out which is the correct card :p

Bill Kearney · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2005, 02:55:51 pm »

Near as I can tell you can't reliably pick cards that have the same names using DirectSound for output. MC11 doesn't understand how to differentiate which one's which, although it seems like it should. I actually had no luck trying to select the second of two devices named "USB Audio", it always defaulted to the first one regardless of which one was picked.

Mastiff · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2005, 01:48:06 am »

Lisa, sorry for shooting you down again, but with the kX drivers that's not a problem since all cards are individually named in them. I'm not sure if they support external cards, though.

m00j · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2005, 05:08:59 am »

Ah so the card are named differently in the KX drivers!

Then it should not be a problem, since I am using the KX drivers for my sound cards.

So can I just get this confirmed, because if what wkearney99 said is true than I should not purchase the sound cards. I have put my order in for them but not sent credit details yet so I can still change it if need be.

Thanks.

Bill Kearney · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2005, 02:42:08 pm »

Quote from: m00j on January 14, 2005, 05:08:59 am

So can I just get this confirmed, because if what wkearney99 said is true than I should not purchase the sound cards. I have put my order in for them but not sent credit details yet so I can still change it if need be.

Let me be clear, when using more than one of the same souncard it appears that MC11 doesn't differentiate them properly when using DirectSound for output. When using Wave Out MC11 appears to put extra effort into naming them sequentially (when there's more than one) and thus can select them properly.

Whether this is true for cards other than the USB devices I'm using I can't say. It's a reasonable assumption but until someone else chimes in with evidence it's just that.

Mastiff · « **Reply #13 on:** January 14, 2005, 03:33:31 pm »

I have had two C-media cards, and they are named the same, but sound has always stayed on the correct card when I have set it to one. The card that's first in Windows is always the upper card.

m00j · « **Reply #14 on:** January 14, 2005, 03:58:48 pm »

Okay I think I should just "suck it and see" :p so to speak. If it turns out for the worse I can always swap one of them with the Live Value in the other computer - assuming a Live value appears different to a Live 24 Bit! If not it was not too expensive of a venture anyway.

Thanks for the help guys! Be sure to look out for my next question which will be on amps

Mastiff · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2005, 04:54:00 am »

I can tell you my approach: I use cheap receivers, many of them my earlier main receivers (I tend to change a bit...) and put them in the room the speakers are. Then I run phono with analogue or digital sound to them, instead of having all the amps in the same place and run speaker wire. Easier, and I get local volume control, and in addittion I can use them as a regular FM radio when i want to.

m00j · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2005, 05:22:34 am »

that would be a good solution but I have already run the speaker cable through the ceiling and we are putting in ceiling speakers in the rooms for that professional feel.

When using the soundcard for multi zone does it output each channel discretely through SPDIF as well? Then I could use standard amps (although with limited volume control - I would need some way to control the volume since you cannot change the volume of the spdif afaik).

I was looking at getting a couple of these: http://europe.rotel.com/products/specs/rmb1066.htm
as I can find them fairly cheap (compared to other brand distribution amps) here in Australia.

Mastiff · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2005, 10:33:58 am »

I read earlier in the thread that the Live! cards has two separate channels on it's SPDIF jack.

m00j · « **Reply #18 on:** January 19, 2005, 08:43:56 pm »

well I got 2 soundcards to test. I am VERY glad I only purchased 2!

It is not the cards being the same that was the problem though.

The problem is that the cards I purchased were Sound Blaster Live 24 Bit Cards. KX does not support the SB Live 24bit! There is a restocking fee at the store I got them from but I have luckily found a workaround. I switched one for the Live Value in my sisters computer and I am trading the other for a Live Value that my friend has.

Next time I will pay the AU$4 more to get the Live DE. The live 24 bit should have been a better card!

JoeDDS · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2005, 12:38:26 pm »

I bought an Audiotrak Maya EX5 (5.1) USB sound card to try out as a 3 zone stereo output. I have set up two zones with MC, one zone to output using the "front" speakers and another zone to output using the "rear" speakers. I can't seem to separate the audio output. Both MC zones play through each set of speakers.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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