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[Xstatic]

I sense that we are closing in on launchtime for MC11, and I know Jim that you have hinted that marginal codecs like mpc and another one which I dont remember, might not be supported encodingwise in MC11.

I just want to raise the hopefull flag that you decide to handle the mpcencoder plugin, so it is compatible with MC11..

I really hope you will do that.

regards
Jesper

[glynor]

I'm just wondering why you like the mpc format?  What benefits does it offer over other, more widely used formats?

[Alex B]

Xstatic, thank you for making me feel less like a "one man band" on this subject
...  Sadly, MC does not feel "complete" without any mpc encoding ability.

You're not alone:

The FLAC encoder is a new third party plug-in, but I had the impression that MPC was one of the supported file types in MC10. I guess I was wrong.

This is not a biggie for me if MPC import, playback, tagging and conversions to other formats will continue to work. I have over 1000 MPC files (about 4 % of my audio library), but I don't usually convert to MPC.

As a workaround mppenc.exe can be used with the External Encoder option. For example, this is the "Parameters" string for Insane quality: --quality 7 %IN %OUT.

The users are not interested about who originally programmed the plug-in years ago. MPC encoding worked in MC9, MC10 and several months in MC11. Support for various file formats has been one of the strengths of MC. More formats would be better than less.

I would like to think that Matt could easily program an MPC encoder plug-in from scratch if it's not possible to fix the current plug-in by JRiver. After all it is just a link between the encoder and MC. Besides, APE v.2 tags are used in MPC format so that part should be familiar.

[Alex B]

I'm just wondering why you like the mpc format?  What benefits does it offer over other, more widely used formats?

I am too lazy now. Forgive me. Please read it from here: http://www.musepack.net/

[Alex B]

Xstatic & marko,

Have you tried the external encoder option? It works as a workaround. Actually, I like to watch it working in a command prompt. I was worried about tagging, but it seems to be OK.


Some quality settings (the range is from 0 to 10):

--quality 5 %IN %OUT   (--quality 5, previously "--standard", typical bitrates 142 ... 184 kbit/s )

--quality 6 %IN %OUT   (--quality 6, previously "--xtreme", typical bitrates  168 ... 212 kbit/s)

--quality 7 %IN %OUT   (--quality 7, previously "--insane", typical bitrates 204 ... 251 kbit/s)

[glynor]

I am too lazy now. Forgive me. Please read it from here: http://www.musepack.net/

Thanks!  That helped, and if anyone else is interested there's an interesting comparison of audio compression formats here which includes information on many of the major formats (including MPC).  That article really explained MPC well for me...

MPC uses a radically different approach to encoding than all other codecs save MP2, from which it is descended, so to speak. One could think of it as a VBR MP2 codec with lots of extensions and improvements; it is aimed at perfect quality above all other things. At just 160-170Kbps, it achieves higher quality than all other lossy codecs at any bitrate. There are extremely few known problem samples, and MPC is incredibly fast in both encoding and decoding: moreso than any other modern codec — it encodes at roughly 6x on a PIII-900 and decodes many times faster then even lightweights like MP3.

MPC is basically an audiophile's codec and it's built like one. Tagging is done APE-style or ID3. It also supports Replaygain neatly, unlike many of the alternatives. MPC is also gapless, unlike AAC or MP3, supporting many channels, 48Khz audio, and 32-bit precision. MPC is at SV7 right now; SV8 is currently in the works, and is expected to more or less complete MPC by adding better multichannel support.

Conceivably that helps to explain why it is difficult to re-write the plugin ("MPC uses a radically different approach to encoding than all other codecs").  My guess would be (and Jim can correct me on this if I'm wrong) that while they aren't considering this a blocker to v11's release, they never said they don't plan on fixing it.  I suspect that much like with the release of v10, they are in "blocker-fixing mode" right now, and all else has to be pushed aside until after the release party.

[hit_ny]

Thanks!  That helped, and if anyone else is interested there's an interesting comparison of audio compression formats here which includes information on many of the major formats (including MPC).  That article really explained MPC well for me...

Conceivably that helps to explain why it is difficult to re-write the plugin ("MPC uses a radically different approach to encoding than all other codecs").  My guess would be (and Jim can correct me on this if I'm wrong) that while they aren't considering this a blocker to v11's release, they never said they don't plan on fixing it.  I suspect that much like with the release of v10, they are in "blocker-fixing mode" right now, and all else has to be pushed aside until after the release party.

Interesting summary. Makes you wonder why it isn't widely supported in portable players.....at all. If any other alternative to mp3 was to come out this would have to be it.

I don't understand why it's so important for MC to be able to encode (apart from convenience of course), rather i would think it more important to be able to decode and allow tagging. Does MC support the decoding part at all ?

Encoding can be done by EAC or similar....right

[GHammer]

I'm currently trialling dbpoweramp's audio convertor in the meantime.

Have you given GX::Transcoder a shot? I've used it for a few things on someone else's machine and it did a nice job.

http://www.germanixsoft.de/en/

I've only used the beta versions, and the reason was the person wanted MPC and does not own MC. No need to refer them now if MPC is not supported.

[Xstatic]

I still have hopes that JRiver will fix the encoder plugin - they have saved the MPC compatibility with MC/MJ before, and I think/hope they will do it again.

Alex/Marko - if you have the energy and patience, would you care to give a simple instruction in how and where to download the latest mpc external encoder, and how to use it through MC?

thanks :-)

Jesper

[Alex B]

Download the encoder from here: http://www.musepack.net/index.php?pg=win

The file you need is titled "mppenc 1.15v". The zip package has a file named "mppenc.exe". Put it in any folder on your PC.

In MC options select "External Encoder", click "Advanced" and configure it like this:



That's all.

[Xstatic]

thanks alot!

Works fine as a temporary workaround 

[Alex B]

I wonder what is needed to change in the External Encoder plug-in to make it a "Musepack Encoder" plug-in.

APE v.2 tagging works with it, so the obvious missing things are selectable quality options in GUI and an internal switch for running the encoder hidden. Does that mean that only a few lines of code are needed to change or add?

[Cmagic]

Hi,

Since I only encode to mpc using the external encoder, I did not notice the integrated mpc encoder from Treelane was not functionning anymore in MC11.00 until I saw this thread.

It's true that it should logically
A/ be fixed to work with MC11
or B/ be removed from the available MC11 plugins.

If I remember well, the mpc encoder plugin was developped by a user (Michael Rhoades aka Treelane) and not  by JRiver (althought Matt helped a lot).
I guess it should be quite possible to make a MC11-able musepack encoder based on 1.15 v code (source available).
Treelane, are you tuned ?

Anyway I have no problem living with the external encoder interface (which I always did) as long as MC continues reading the mpc format and the associated APE2.0 tags.

C.

[Alex B]

The biggest annoyance with using the external encoder is that the command prompt steals focus every time a new file is started. That makes doing anything else with MC or other programs difficult.

I started using Musepack with MJ8 in 2002. At that time the plug-in was listed in the encoder options just like MP3 encoder. MJ8, MC9 & MC10 downloaded the plug-in automatically when needed. I didn't even know it was a third party plug-in until now.

[sdcoochie8]

I to would like to see MPC encoding back to the way it was with previous versions. MC will not be complete without it as far as I am concerned. Yes the external encoder will work but it will also work for mp3 and Ogg if set up for that but that wouldn't be appropriate for most of us at this point. I had e-mailed M. Rhoads at one time but never got a reply I just assumed that he was no longer interested in supporting this plug-in. However I do think with all the talent at J River that someone there has the stuff to get this going as it was before.

[lambert282]

I would like to think that Matt could easily program an MPC encoder plug-in from scratch if it's not possible to fix the current plug-in by JRiver. After all it is just a link between the encoder and MC. Besides, APE v.2 tags are used in MPC format so that part should be familiar.

If Matt's the expert around here maybe a good start would be for Matt to provide a quick outline of why the encoder got broken and roughly what needs to be done to fix it.  If it worked before surely it's only a minor tweak that's needed to get it working again.  Maybe Matt could provide some pointers.

[bob]

I just put up an updated mpcencoder plugin for MC 11 on the plugin page. I've tested it, though fairly lightly. I'd treat it as beta.

[Alex B]

Great News!

I'll test it ASAP and report. My first finding is that you have correctly selected the latest encoder version, which is 1.15v. I have used it since it was published without problems.

Thanks!

[GHammer]

No tag info is preserved if you convert from APE/APL to MPC.

Didn't try any other type to convert from.

[Alex B]

No tag info is preserved if you convert from APE/APL to MPC.

Didn't try any other type to convert from.

Strange. It works for me. I converted some APL files to MP3 and MPC. The tag info was preserved similarly with both formats. I tried with imported and unimported files. Is it possible that you accidentally converted cue tracks?

Unfortunately converted cue tracks do not contain tags. APL for other formats besides APE would be a sleek solution to this and many other problems, but that is a different topic.

I converted several other formats to Musepack and everything seems to work so far. I ripped a CD using the encode and analyze on-the-fly options and again everything worked fine.

[bob]

brilliant news!

Could be the weekend before I can get into a heavy encoding session though.
Thank you for listening. Was putting it together a team effort or a one man show?

Mostly John and Matt teaching me to use visual studio .net

[sdcoochie8]

This is great news thanks to all that may have worked on this plug-in I was starting to think that this feature would not be included in version 11. It just goes to show that jriver continues to try and listen to it's users even if we aren't the majority.

[sdcoochie8]

Just a quick question for those mpc guys. With this new version are the ---alt-preset fast options done and is it just the --quality presets now?

[sdcoochie8]

Nevermind, what was I thinking this is for Lame not MPC. As you can see I haven't used mpc since version 8. Sorry for the confusion.

[GHammer]

Strange. It works for me. I converted some APL files to MP3 and MPC. The tag info was preserved similarly with both formats. I tried with imported and unimported files. Is it possible that you accidentally converted cue tracks?

Nope. I do not import CUE files as there is little functionality.

Start with tagged APE and APL. Convert to MPC. Untagged files are created.

[GHammer]

Easy to fix once I knew it was working elsewhere.

Tools-Options-General-Update tags when file info changes.

Not what I'd think that setting should do, but it does.

[Alex B]

Bump

brilliant news!

Could be the weekend before I can get into a heavy encoding session though.
Thank you for listening. Was putting it together a team effort or a one man show?

marko, where's your feedback?
Xstatic, are you still with us?

Personally I have not found any functional faults.  Thanks again for the good work.

Only the encoder name should be updated. Officially MPEG+ was changed to Musepack a long time ago. (Something to do with the copyrighted MPEG name...). As a test I already changed it using a Hex Editor.


Bob,

Would you like to do another coding exercise? The MPC input plug-in "in_mpc.dll" needs to be fixed too. I am constantly encountering this error message:



It comes up when using e.g. multizone playback, when using Library Server or when trying to analyze mpc files during playback of other mpc files.

As far as I know that limitation is no longer necessary when the current decoding library is used. Some other programs can decode multiple MPC files simultaneously just fine.

[Alex B]

Did they fix "the limitations of the architecture"?

Actually, I just guessed that. I suppose there has been a good reason for the "limitation" at some time. However, I have not found any explanation. My searches with Google or inside Interact have returned nothing. In any case, when using other programs that seems to be possible without any apparent problems.

[bob]

Only the encoder name should be updated. Officially MPEG+ was changed to Musepack a long time ago. (Something to do with the copyrighted MPEG name...). As a test I already changed it using a Hex Editor.

I wondered why the plugin name didn't seem to relate to the website. I'll at least change it in the dialog.

Bob,

Would you like to do another coding exercise? The MPC input plug-in "in_mpc.dll" needs to be fixed too. I am constantly encountering this error message:



It comes up when using e.g. multizone playback, when using Library Server or when trying to analyze mpc files during playback of other mpc files.

As far as I know that limitation is no longer necessary when the current decoding library is used. Some other programs can decode multiple MPC files simultaneously just fine.

I'll check into it, thanks...

[bob]

I changed the mpegplus mpc encoder to Musepack for MC 11 on the plugin page. You'll need to uninstall the mpegplus encoder then install this one. Note any changes from stock encoder settings before you remove the mpegplus encoder because you'll have to reenter them after installing the musepack encoder.

The decoder should be able to be updated. This is more involved than fixing the encoder was however...

[Alex B]

Thanks again, bob.

I hope the decoder plug-in can be updated too.

Does anyone know what is the issue with multiple decoding processes? I really couldn't find any information about it.