Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[lalittle]

I thought I remembered seeing some information on this a while back, but I can't seem to find it now.

When installing MC11 on a system that already has MC10 on it, does the new install automatically utilize the data from the previous installation -- i.e. does it copy over the library, cover art, etc. from the MC10 folders into the new MC11 folders, or is this something we have to do manually?  If we have to do it manually, which folders/files need to be copied over (and where do they need to be copied to) so that we end up with the same overall library and cover art directory, but with the new version of MC11?

Is the question above influenced by whether or not you choose to let the MC11 installation uninstall MC10?  I've only installed MC11 on my "test" system to this point, but I want to install it on my "real" system, and I want to make sure that I end up with everything transfered over to the new version properly and as smoothly as possible.  Any information/advice, or possibly pointers to this information somewhere, would be appreciated.  As I said, I searched for it, but I was unable to get a clear picture of the proper procedure.

Thanks,

Larry

[Alex B]

I did a lot of upgrade testing and reported in this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=27914.0. I think you mean that thread. Actually, you posted there too.

I sincerely recommend taking the steps I gathered into my final "instructions" in this post: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=27914.msg194327#msg194327. Surely, there are other ways that work too, but I think the way I described is the most robust I have seen here in the forum. It avoids unnecessary hassle and some potential problems.

I wonder if JRiver folks could check the thread again and consider if the MC installer could be developed further. In my opinion the installer could automatically take those steps in an upgrade situation. It is quite possible that the instructions are not perfect and don't fit to everybody's setup but the developers certainly have more knowledge about the possible things that I didn't take into account.

[lalittle]

Thanks.

Regarding your instructions, since MC10's cover art is in a different path from where MC11 puts it (i.e. MC10's path is ".../Media Center" while MC11's path is "...Media Center 11") does this imply that the MC11 installer looks for the cover art in the previous location and copies or moves it over to the new path/location?  Will it really know to do this if MC10 was manually uinstalled first?  It seems like you'd have to install to the exact same folder (i.e. "Media Center") if this is where you put the cover art, but MC11 defaults to "Media Center 11" when installing.

Thanks for your help in clarifying this,

Larry

[Alex B]

Regarding your instructions, since MC10's cover art is in a different path from where MC11 puts it (i.e. MC10's path is ".../Media Center" while MC11's path is "...Media Center 11") does this imply that the MC11 installer looks for the cover art in the previous location and copies or moves it over to the new path/location?  Will it really know to do this if MC10 was manually uinstalled first?  It seems like you'd have to install to the exact same folder (i.e. "Media Center") if this is where you put the cover art, but MC11 defaults to "Media Center 11" when installing.

The cover art path in MC10 options is used only as the default storage location. After the cover art is linked the path is stored with each library item separately. It doesn't matter if all cover art files are stored in the cover art folder or if the files are in any other folders. When MC uses the external cover art files it reads the folder path for each file separately. If the link contains only the cover art filename without a path, MC uses the linked image file in the audio file folder.

I have used cover art files in the album folders for years. The advantage of this approach is that when the folders are moved the cover art links are always correct because they contain only the filenames. Before MC11 I linked the cover art files manually. Now MC11 has an option for storing the cover art next to the file too.

The cover art links are stored in the file fields in the library. MC11 (or the installer) does not change those links automatically. So if all cover art files were located in the folder that was defined in the MC10 folder options MC11 continues to use the same links.

MC does not have a functional system for finding and replacing the cover art links all together. The only way to automatically relink the cover files is to remove all cover art (without deleting the actual files) and use the "Quick Find…" tool after changing the folder path in MC options and physically moving the folder (outside MC). I have read some reports that the tool is not 100% reliable. I suppose that is because the file tags and/or cover art names are not always correct, but there may be some other factors too.

Because of the previous things I think it is easiest to keep the old cover art files in the old location(s). MC11 will save the new cover art files according to the options defined and continue to use the old files in the old location. You can change the default cover art path to the old path if you like to.

[lalittle]

Forgive me if I'm being slow here, but just to clarify, lets say I have the cover art in the previous location when I install MC11, which means I'll have to have both a "Media Center" and a "Media Center 11" subfolder under the J River folder.  What happens if I change the cover art settings in MC11 at this point -- for example, if I tell it that I want the cover art stored in the album folders?  Will it "copy" or "move" the existing image files for me automatically, or is there some process of "updating" that I need to do?

On a related note, given the initial situation above (with MC11 cover art still stored in the old cover art directory) what's the easiest way to get the cover art moved to the new "default" cover art location for MC11, which would be either in the album folders, or in a subfolder of the "Media Center 11" folder.

I have used cover art files in the album folders for years. The advantage of this approach is that when the folders are moved the cover art links are always correct because they contain only the filenames. Before MC11 I linked the cover art files manually. Now MC11 has an option for storing the cover art next to the file too.

This makes sense to me, which is why I think I'd like to start doing this, and why I need to find out more information on how to "convert" the current system to this new style.  When you have MC set to store cover art in the album folder AND store it in the tags (which is how I have it set up) will the cover art be in BOTH the mp3 files AND the album folder?

Thanks again,

Larry

[Alex B]

Forgive me if I'm being slow here, but just to clarify, lets say I have the cover art in the previous location when I install MC11, which means I'll have to have both a "Media Center" and a "Media Center 11" subfolder under the J River folder.  What happens if I change the cover art settings in MC11 at this point -- for example, if I tell it that I want the cover art stored in the album folders?

This will happen:

MC11 will save the new cover art files according to the options defined and continue to use the old files in the old location.

Will it "copy" or "move" the existing image files for me automatically, or is there some process of "updating" that I need to do?

No. MC doesn't have a function for that, except the "Quick Find..." tool I mentioned.

On a related note, given the initial situation above (with MC11 cover art still stored in the old .cover art directory) what's the easiest way to get the cover art moved to the new "default" cover art location for MC11, which would be either in the album folders, or in a subfolder of the "Media Center 11" folder.

KingSparta has made a plugin for moving the cover art to the album folders, but I am not familiar with it. I suppose it is the best option for moving the linked cover art files.

I started doing it manually about two and half years ago. Since then I have stored the new cover art files into the album folders and from time to time I have moved and relinked a bunch of old cover art files. I think I still have a few cover art files in the old folder, but the job is about done now.

This makes sense to me, which is why I think I'd like to start doing this, and why I need to find out more information on how to "convert" the current system to this new style.  When you have MC set to store cover art in the album folder AND store it in the tags (which is how I have it set up) will the cover art be in BOTH the mp3 files AND the album folder?

The cover art location options are used only when the images are initially added. When the files are stored externally each library file has the cover art link stored in the Image File field. MC reads the cover art info from that field on the need basis. You may want to make the Image File column visible in the view options. That might help to understand this better.

I have always used only external image files and I have never tested the behavior with image files stored in the file tags. I suppose no external files are needed if your cover art links are marked as "Inside file" in the Image File field. Just keep the old folder as a backup.

The currrent "inside" option obviously saves the cover art images in the file tags and in the defined location. I don't know what MC11 does with the separate image files when the images are stored inside the tags. I guess they serve only backup purposes. So if the file tags are lost for some reason the images can be readded from the cover art location.

[lalittle]

MC11 will save the new cover art files according to the options defined and continue to use the old files in the old location.

This seems like a really silly kludge for such a sophisticated program -- i.e. I now have cover art in two different locations.  I'm having a difficult time accepting that this is the way MC11 is designed to work.  What happens with MC12 comes out -- will I then have cover art located in THREE different locations, some under the "Media Center" folder, some under the "Media Center 11" folder, and the newest art under the "Media Center 12" folder?

It seems like there just has to be some relatively easy way to end up with all cover art in the NEW default location -- i.e. to shift it to the default MC11 folder/s (wherever that may be) without "removing" it and "re-finding" it.  It's one thing to not have this happen automatically, but to have to remove and re-find it seems like a kludge.  Is it possible that by letting the MC11 installer uninstall MC10 rather than unistalling MC10 manaully, it wil do this automatically during the installation?  Is there perhaps something I'm misunderstanding here?

Taking a different scenario, let's say I want to "extract" the cover art from some mp3's that have their art saved in the tags in order to use it in some other way or edit it.  Isn't there some way of doing this?

Given that I currently have my cover art stored in the tags, is the cover art in my MC10 "cover art" folder even used anymore, or is it just extraneous at this point, and I can put it wherever I want?

What would happen if a file wanted to see the cover art in a certain location and it was suddenely not there anymore?  How would I be able to tell the difference between a file that had no cover art, and a file that didn't see it's cover art where it expected it?

Thanks again,

Larry

[lalittle]

On a related note, if I do use the MC11 installer to uninstall MC10, which if any of my previous files and/or settings will it use?  In other words, given that I'm installing MC11 "on top" of MC10, will it assume that I want to use my previous library, settings, cover art, etc.?  If so, will it move and/or copy any of this data to the new MC11 folder automatically?  It would strike me as very odd if the MC11 installer just uninstalled MC10 without using any of the previous data for the MC11 installation.  It seems much more logical (and typical) if MC11 would instead "bring over" much of this data during the install.

Thanks,

Larry

[Alex B]

This seems like a really silly kludge for such a sophisticated program -- i.e. I now have cover art in two different locations.  I'm having a difficult time accepting that this is the way MC11 is designed to work.  What happens with MC12 comes out -- will I then have cover art located in THREE different locations, some under the "Media Center" folder, some under the "Media Center 11" folder, and the newest art under the "Media Center 12" folder?

I agree and hope the installer will be developed further. However, you don't have to use many folders. MC11 uses the cover art folder you have defined. For now, you can keep your cover art in e.g. Media Center\Data\Cover Art\ and use that. It is just a folder name.

In general I have never used default folder names. I like to have as short filename paths as possible:
I have all installed software in a root folder named C:\Soft\
My main media library is in C:\MClib\
I have MC11 in C:\Soft\MC\
My old global cover art folder is currently located in X:\_img
My music files are in X:\[Artist]\[Album]
My video files are in Y:\[Album]
etc...

I have asked for the editable Image File field several times. It would be nice if all image file links could be changed e.g. from "D:\Music\Cover Art" to "E:\Music\Cover Art" just by using the Find and Replace tool.

Because that is not possible I have imported the cover art files so I can move them together with other files using MC tools. Because the image files are in the album folders the links don't contain paths and they are always correct.

It seems like there just has to be some relatively easy way to end up with all cover art in the NEW default location -- i.e. to shift it to the default MC11 folder/s (wherever that may be) without "removing" it and "re-finding" it.  It's one thing to not have this happen automatically, but to have to remove and re-find it seems like a kludge.  Is it possible that by letting the MC11 installer uninstall MC10 rather than unistalling MC10 manaully, it wil do this automatically during the installation?  Is there perhaps something I'm misunderstanding here?

AFAIK there is no such a mechanism. The cover art location for existing files is defined in the Image File field. The folder location in the MC options is completely separate of that field and the whole media library.

The only way to edit the old links is to export the library in XML format, edit the Image File fields with some other software and import the XML file to a new empty library. However, the import system is a bit buggy. I have reported about the problems a few months ago.

Taking a different scenario, let's say I want to "extract" the cover art from some mp3's that have their art saved in the tags in order to use it in some other way or edit it. Isn't there some way of doing this?

I don't know. Have you tried: Right-click > Image > Copy to Clipboard? That works for external images.

Given that I currently have my cover art stored in the tags, is the cover art in my MC10 "cover art" folder even used anymore, or is it just extraneous at this point, and I can put it wherever I want?

As I said earlier, I don't think it is used.

What would happen if a file wanted to see the cover art in a certain location and it was suddenely not there anymore?  How would I be able to tell the difference between a file that had no cover art, and a file that didn't see it's cover art where it expected it?

Did you check the Image File field? Internal cover art is marked as "Inside File". There is no cover art link in that case. MC does not look for the file elsewhere unless the "Quick Find in File / Cover Art Directory" tool is used. External cover art would of course be missing.

Actually, if your cover art images are marked as "Inside File" you don't have a problem. Your MC10 Media Library does not contain any other information about your image files. That information does not magically change when you restore an MC10 library backup in MC11 or point a new MC11 library to an MC10 library location.

[Alex B]

On a related note, if I do use the MC11 installer to uninstall MC10, which if any of my previous files and/or settings will it use?  In other words, given that I'm installing MC11 "on top" of MC10, will it assume that I want to use my previous library, settings, cover art, etc.?  If so, will it move and/or copy any of this data to the new MC11 folder automatically?  It would strike me as very odd if the MC11 installer just uninstalled MC10 without using any of the previous data for the MC11 installation.  It seems much more logical (and typical) if MC11 would instead "bring over" much of this data during the install.

In my opinion the upgrade process should be transparent for the user. I have found that it is not (I explained that in the thread mentioned earlier). MC11 is internally quite different and understandably the options need to be reconfigured, but the library transfer should be automatic by default.

I have no problems with the current installer, but some users may experience difficulties when upgrading.

[hit_ny]

Does anyone remember the rationale for keeping cover-art separate ie in one cover art directory for the whole library vs leaving it's own individual folder ?

I never figured it out so always kept cover art in the same folder as the media files. Idea being everything that pertains to an album in said album's folder.

This method has not given me any probs going from 9.1->10->11

[modelmaker]

I never figured it out so always kept cover art in the same folder as the media files. Idea being everything that pertains to an album in said album's folder.

This method has not given me any probs going from 9.1->10->11

The same is true for me. In addition, I store all the cover art in the tag, so should anything go wrong with the tag, the original art is still the album folder and vice versa.

The MC cover art folder is empty.

 I download (or scan) cover art and resize it before before adding it to the files. I like my cover art images to be full screen when I'm in full screen mode and of as high a quality as possible. As MC does not resize the image larger to fit the screen, but does resize larger images smaller, I resize them 900 x 900 first, then add them to the files.

When I seach for cover art I usually start with Walmart.com (500x500), the Amazon sites (300x300, but some are now 500x500) and lastly, AMG (200x200 - these don't resize very well, but are ok as last resort.)

[lalittle]

In addition, I store all the cover art in the tag, so should anything go wrong with the tag, the original art is still the album folder and vice versa.

I'd like to start doing it this way as well, but I'm still not entirely sure whether or not there is an easier way to "changing over" to this than what is described above.  At the moment, my cover art is stored inside the file tags, but for whatever reason the cover art folder also has a lot of this cover art in it as well.  I'd like to "end up" with all the cover art in the tags, and also in the album folders.  Is there any way to go about enacting this change without doing the whole "XML export" method described above?

Thanks,

Larry

PS.  I should note that this system is still on MC10, so the changeover to MC11 would also be part of the process.