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[jackpod]

Ok, I have been ripping my collection, has taken the better side of a month (1233 disks). I ripped everything as wav, had several hundred not in the database (big jazz and swing fan plus other genres) anyway, got thru it.  a couple really dumb questions

1. Everyone says to convert to .ape,  why?
2. SO i thought i would create another directory and convert to ape, then backup the ape directory to one of my other servers (my music server is raid 5, 1.5 TB) (my HA server is raid 5 1 TB)
3. so i converted my "multiple artist" category (62 disks) to ape, selected not to erase the original and specified a different directory for the ape files (c:\music (for wav) c:\musicape (for ape), all is fine except now from within MC it is pointing to the ape files rather than the wav files, so if i remove the ape directory after backing it up, how do I get the tree to show my wav files.

I guess I just can't get it thru my thick head as to why I would want to convert to a compressed format when I have the space to store the files in wav which is their original format

[Mr ChriZ]

Quick Answers
1. Ape takes up less space for same quality
    Ape can store file tags, including cover art =)
2. Is not a question
3. Just use the File Import Utilitity and point it back at your wave files :-)
  When converting them you could have deselected the option "Update Database"
Which is under the Converter Settings when converting.
See Alex B's Response

Hope that helps =)

[Alex B]

so i converted my "multiple artist" category (62 disks) to ape, selected not to erase the original and specified a different directory for the ape files (c:\music (for wav) c:\musicape (for ape), all is fine except now from within MC it is pointing to the ape files rather than the wav files, so if i remove the ape directory after backing it up, how do I get the tree to show my wav files.

You should not have ticked "Update database".

However, you can change the filenames back with the Find And Replace tool:

1. hide the APE files outside MC. (e.g. change the basefolder name)
2. replace .ape with .wav (tick only: "Filename (name)"
3. replace c:\musicape with c:\music (tick only: "Filename (path)"

I guess I just can't get it thru my thick head as to why I would want to convert to a compressed format when I have the space to store the files in wav which is their original format

One good reason for using a taggable format instead of wave is the fact that wave files don't have a tagging standard. If you lose your MC library you will lose the tags. That's why it is even more important to make library backups regularly if you use untaggable formats like wave or video files. (File > library > Backup Library)

If you have a library backup file just restore it for getting the wave files back.

Edit

Mr Chriz,
you were faster -  otherwise good advice, but because wave files don't contain any metadata reimporting is probably out of question.

[hit_ny]

1. Everyone says to convert to .ape,  why?

Really, not me. I've been happy with high quality vbr mp3s for a long time. What you might consider doing is rip to ape first just for archival and then convert those apes to high quality vbr for your music server. This way you got the best of both worlds. You have already done the hard work of ripping so you can always convert to the next best lossy format in the future.

2. SO i thought i would create another directory and convert to ape, then backup the ape directory to one of my other servers (my music server is raid 5, 1.5 TB) (my HA server is raid 5 1 TB)

(1233 disks) in 1 TBs !!!
 
With mp3s you will fit 3 times that amount if not much more in the same storage. Since i mirror my drives to another redundant set, the cost savings are 6x+.

Another point to consider is if you're accesing your library over the net, you would only need about 256kbs of upload capacity. With lossless this would be much higher.

[Mr ChriZ]

Edit

Mr Chriz,
you were faster -  otherwise good advice, but because wave files don't contain any metadata reimporting is probably out of question.

Oops didn't think of that! Guess I win Dumb Answer of the Century 

[jgreen]

jackpod--
I only started converting from WAV to lossless FLAC (like APE--smaller, but not compressed), when I ran out of room.  Currently, my library is one-third WAV and the rest mostly FLAC.  It is true, the tagging with APE or FLAC is far superior, but you can compensate for that by renaming your wave files into a tier of descriptive folders (album, arist, track #, etc).  The result looks bizarre, and is unnavigable outside of MC, but tag info can be preserved in this way.

With today's low-priced disks, I know of no reason to convert your music to a lossy format, such as mp3.  And yet, there are plenty of brilliant people here who not only do this but make a science out of it.  If you have the drive space, like you say you do, you should never consider crushing your music into a lossy format.  It is true, it is almost impossible to tell the difference, but if there is no benefit to be gained by conversion (such as freeing up more drive space), why in the world would you do it?

[hsc]

Ok, I have been ripping my collection, has taken the better side of a month (1233 disks). I ripped everything as wav, had several hundred not in the database (big jazz and swing fan plus other genres) anyway, got thru it.  a couple really dumb questions

1. Everyone says to convert to .ape,  why?

For me there are 3 reasons to use .ape:
(1) Saves HD space
(2) Tags
(3) Buildin Checksums
The first 2 have already been mentioned by previous replies and are quite obvious. The 3rd gets important if one of the disks used for storage begin to have trouble. In my experience disks start dying slowly and if noted early enough you can still copy over 90% of the files to a new disk. There rest needs then to come from the backup (mirror, tapes, reripping,...). The problem with pure wavs is that you never know if they are still 100% unchanged. With apes it is very easy to check if they are still ok.

[jackpod]

Thanks for all the responses, I tried the import from the first post before anyone else replied and yes I lost about 85 disks... no big deal. It gave me the chance to go thru and clean out the empty directories outside of MC. So I am back to ripping for another day, no big deal, that is what retired people do.

Let me make a couple points. I do not plan on streaming any audio over my network. I have a delta 1010lt card in my server and the 4 stereo pairs of analog outputs feed 4 of the zone inputs on my Nuvo Essentia which sits right next to the server.

I have a 1.38TB raid 5 array on this box with nothing else on it. I am only using a little over 600 gigs so far.

What my plan was, was to convert all the wavs to a backup directory in .ape, keep it on the raid 5 array and also have a copy on my HS server. I have a 500gig raid 0 array on that box.

I learned a little with this experiment, I will make sure I do not check the update database option.

Again thanks for all the tips and tricks

Jack

[Alex B]

If the original wave files are still present this will make MC to see them again instead of the converted APE files:

However, you can change the filenames back with the Find And Replace tool:

1. hide the APE files outside MC. (e.g. change the basefolder name)
2. replace .ape with .wav (tick only: "Filename (name)"
3. replace c:\musicape with c:\music (tick only: "Filename (path)"

Alternatively, you can use the Fill Properties From Filename tool for getting some of the info back (depending on how your folders and files are named).

[NetMage]

It is very convenient with my 6 Disc MP3 player in my car to have everything in MP3 VBR, though I wish MC would stop launching lame in the foreground!!!

With today's low-priced disks, I know of no reason to convert your music to a lossy format, such as mp3.  And yet, there are plenty of brilliant people here who not only do this but make a science out of it.  If you have the drive space, like you say you do, you should never consider crushing your music into a lossy format.  It is true, it is almost impossible to tell the difference, but if there is no benefit to be gained by conversion (such as freeing up more drive space), why in the world would you do it?

[jgreen]

MC can convert on burning or uploading to a portable.  I use MP3s in my Ipod and they sound great, but I keep my archive in lossless.  With disk prices so much cheaper these days, the financial reason for archiving to lossy has largely gone away.

[modelmaker]

Ape is a lossless format with all the aforementioned advantages. It is the more practical solution regardless of how much storage space one has.

[hit_ny]

MC can convert on burning or uploading to a portable.  I use MP3s in my Ipod and they sound great, but I keep my archive in lossless.  With disk prices so much cheaper these days, the financial reason for archiving to lossy has largely gone away.

This depends largely on how fast your collection grows and to a certain extent what genres of music you listen to. Some genres need lossless but we're talking 5-10% of them tops. But the acid test is if you can hear obvious artifiacts, if so fine go with lossless. I find i can't hear any or too little to be worth it.

I already mentioned the price savings above. When you can get 1TB for $100 the price will be right. RAID is not backup, for that you need a redundant set.

[NetMage]

I don't think conversion to 320 VBR while burning will be very fast...

I create MP3 CDs on the fly when I have little time

MC can convert on burning or uploading to a portable.  I use MP3s in my Ipod and they sound great, but I keep my archive in lossless.  With disk prices so much cheaper these days, the financial reason for archiving to lossy has largely gone away.

[GHammer]

I'd use some lossless format simply for the tagging advantages.
There are formats that are pretty resistant to damage as well.
If you're going to use MC, it is hard to beat the APE format.
And, if you go with APE, I'd stick with 'Normal' compression.

But mainly, tagging beats devising a tree and naming structure for holding info about my music.

[Matt]

Another big advantage (at least in my book) of lossless over WAV is that robust error detection is built into the format.  APE has frame based CRC's and full file MD5's.  WAV has no simple way to detect if a file has become corrupted.

[GHammer]

Another big advantage (at least in my book) of lossless over WAV is that robust error detection is built into the format. APE has frame based CRC's and full file MD5's. WAV has no simple way to detect if a file has become corrupted.

Now there's a good question for you Matt.
Are errors only detected, or is there some amount of correction?