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Author Topic: Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?  (Read 2305 times)

kwake

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Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?
« on: May 08, 2006, 03:06:56 am »

Hello all,

I did a quick search and was surprised not to have found any past discussion on this question, however I was hoping it would be easy (or at least possible) to edit the default 'Calendar' view for pictures to show sorted by "Date Created".

I have tons of pics that are showing in the wrong month because the field by default is Date, and not Date Created...

Thanks for any assistance in this area.

Regards,
Kwake
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marko

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Re: Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2006, 07:01:29 am »

If it's just for the file list, then open the 'customise current view' dialogue, and specify [date created] in the sort options.

looking at this for you just now had me asking "why can't we specify the 'default' sort options for a view scheme?" seems a tad odd to me. It seemed intuitive to me that if I opened the customise current view dialogue and set my own sort options in there, then those would be the 'default' sort options for the viewscheme, but this is not so. strange.

anyway, if you don't change it by choosing another sort option, MC will remember it.



If you want the year/month/day panes to show date created, then you'll need to edit each aspect of the view scheme.
to do that, open the edit view scheme dialogue:

step 1
In the presets, choose 'empty' then click the 'add' button. choose advanced expression.
name it year and enter the following expression:

formatdate([date created,0],yyyy)

Next, click the add button again, advanced expression, again, this time name it month and enter the following expression:

formatdate([date created,0],MMMM)&datatype=[month]

finally, add one more expression, this time called day and use the following:

formatdate([date created,0],dd)

The only caveat with this approach is that you will only be able to use the 'panes' view.



If you want to be able to use library browser views as well as panes, you need to create 3 custom library fields using the expressions shown above.
To get there, go 'tools > options > library' and click on the 'add' button. The image below shows the dialogue as I filled it out for the new field [year created]


Now, when building the viewscheme instead of using advanced expressions, choose 'standard item' instead and pick your 3 new custom fields. Now you will have library browser views too. Finally, remember to use the customise current view dialogue to set the sorting by [date created]. I found that a-z felt more natural than z-a.

bet you wish you'd never asked now huh ;)

-marko.

kwake

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Re: Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2006, 04:45:12 pm »

Thanks very much Marko for the detailed response! Panes is what I was looking for...

Unfortunately for me, it seems far too many of my files don't have a created date associated, as after adding the formulas you provided I only get one year (2006), about 5 months, and a few days.

All my pictures show in the file list below the panes however, so not sure what's going on...

In the end I was hoping to be able to display using the field the camera adds to the file the date/time it is taken - not the date I transfered it to my PC, or the date I resized it, etc...

If you have any ideas on what field is best for this I'd greatly appreciate the info.

Cheers,
Kwake
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marko

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Re: Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2006, 07:00:11 pm »

Hmmm... Welcome to image management... MC style.

you are talking about the EXIF tag <date/time digitised> or <date/time original>

The [date created] we've been working around so far refers to the date they were created on your hard drive.

recovering the situation depends a lot on how you got to where are today, so, I'll prattle on for a bit, trying to stay on topic, with the idea that, if you gain some understanding with regards to what MC is doing, you'll know, 1) how to avoid some pitfalls in the future, and 2) if you have any possibility to get your dates back.



When you import a photo for the first time, MC reads the EXIF data and uses the info it finds there to populate some of its own proprietry fields.

It will take the <date/time original> info and place it in the [date] field. It uses the date and time, without the seconds, like so; 24/04/2006 17:57.

Now, MC also automatically places images into albums by date, so, while I took several photos on the 24th April, their [date] fields are all different because of the included <time> parameter, but their [album] fields are all the same, namely, "24/04/2006". The date the photo was taken is potentially available in two places within MC's own database, while the time the photo was taken is available in just the date field.

That is the situation immediately after importing the photos into MC. I'm sure you can see that if you plan to do any post-editing, it's an extremely fragile situation....

If you place your photos into albums with names a bit more descriptive than the date (and why wouldn't you?) that's one of your original date reference points gone.

If you make any edits that destroy the EXIF data (such as, but not limited to, resizing the photo using MC) that's another one gone.
IMPORTANT NOTE: If you resize using MC, use the resize option that's available when you right click the file, 'Image>resize image'. You will still lose the EXIF data (MC will warn you about this) but you won't lose the file info held in MC's database, so [date] will remain intact, but you must be aware that this is now your only record of when the photo was actually taken. If you use the image editor provided with MC to do the resize job, any job in fact, you will lose every tag, both exif and MC, in the file when you save it. The editor removes the original, and saves its work in place of it. If you do this, it is of paramount importance that you immediately right click the file, library tools, update tags from library. It's important because if anything causes MC to do an automatic "update library from tags" you will lose the precious little data you have left relating to that file. This is the reason I personally choose not to use the proprietry MC image editor.



Hopefully, that wasn't too alarmist for you. :)
So, if you're original post is anything to go by, the [date] field in MC's database no longer contains the <date/time original> info for the majority, if not all, of your photos.

This leaves two other places, the [album] field, or the original EXIF data. MC's [album] field is easily checked, the EXIF data, perhaps not so easily...
If you open the 'file type info' window in the action window (file properties > file type info) and then select an image, then what you see there (in the file type info window) are the tags that are actually saved in the file. The MJMD tags are MC's own and no other software can read them. If there is any info, other than the dimensions, above the MJMD stuff, such as the camera model, or the focal length, then your EXIF data is still intact.

If you have EXIF data, I'd remove the files from MC's database and re-import them.
If you do not have the original date info in any of those three places, then the info is lost forever. Curse for a while, learn the lesson for future reference and move on. :)

Of course, if you have back ups of the original files, you're laughing, because you can just wipe the slate clean and start over. The problem for me is that while MC makes provision for aquiring photos from the camera, it makes no provision for protecting those original files, along with all the valuable information saved within them.
With all of this in mind, I developed a workflow that primarily involves another program. I use that to get the photos from the camera. It then protects the original file, writes the EXIF data to any edited versions of the original file, and also keeps the original file and all its edited versions linked, though only displays the most current edited version when generally browsing and searching.
When I'm happy with the state of the photo, I then export it to a folder that is exclusively for MC's use. This way, I generally don't need to do any editing work on photos that are in MC's library, and I don't need to worry too much about MC trashing any information that may be crucial to the sorting and filing within MC's library.

It's a lot of extra work though. If I write a caption for a photo in the initial software, it's saved in the EXIF data, but MC ignores it.
Image tagging with MC is a doddle. Slideshow creation (for playback on monitor or TV) is just as simple, and custom caption masks are fun to play with, but for actually getting creative with your photos and doing stuff for family/friends with a bit of "WOW" factor (think HTML albums or slide show DVD's) that's as good as gets. You can select photos organised in MC and drag and drop to other programs that can do these things, but then those programs cannot read the <MJMD> tags so you're lumbered with a lot of typing work that you've already done once.


I'll stop now :D
Hopefully, things are a little clearer for you now. MC is OK for images, you just need to be aware of the potential pitfalls laying around. Here's a thread I started over the weekend in a similar vein:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=33675.0


C'mon j.river, put me out of my misery, tell me v12 will be the one that takes image handling into the fast-lane ;) :)

over and out...
-marko.






kwake

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Re: Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2006, 05:21:36 am »

It's all so much clearer now, thanks very much Marko for having taken the time to explain.

I'll be more careful from now on and try and do as you have done - establish a workflow with a 3rd party product that will ensure the precious <date/time original> info isn't lost forever.

It would be nice if MC would take this delicate situation into account and do the necessary to ensure this precious info is kept intact within MC's db. After all, this is what people expect from their favourite software programs...

Cheers,
Kwake
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Matt

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Re: Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2006, 08:47:33 am »

MC will not discard EXIF information, so if a picture has an EXIF date, doing "Update Library (from tags)" should fill it in.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

marko

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Re: Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2006, 09:41:18 am »

MC will not discard EXIF information, so if a picture has an EXIF date, doing "Update Library (from tags)" should fill it in.
Resizing an image using MC definately does discard all the EXIF information.
Try it and see. right click > image > resize image.
I see a dialogue that informs me I'm about to change the image
I then choose a size, I keep aspect ratio and untick the 'optimise' option.
I then click OK

All EXIF data is then discarded. Should I post this in the bug thread?
If I had used the image editor to resize, the MJMD tags would also have been discarded, leaving the image file with no meta tags at all.

-marko.

Matt

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Re: Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2006, 10:24:44 am »

Resizing an image using MC definately does discard all the EXIF information.
Try it and see. right click > image > resize image.
I see a dialogue that informs me I'm about to change the image
I then choose a size, I keep aspect ratio and untick the 'optimise' option.
I then click OK

All EXIF data is then discarded. Should I post this in the bug thread?
If I had used the image editor to resize, the MJMD tags would also have been discarded, leaving the image file with no meta tags at all.

That's why a warning is shown explaining this.  You may have checked "don't warn me".  Keeping the EXIF information isn't right either since it is a new image at this point.  Tags are preserved and saved to the new file.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

kwake

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Re: Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2006, 11:19:34 am »

Would it be asking too much that in future versions MC could maintain at least the <date/time original> info when modifying a digital picture (either via resize or rotate, within the GUI or via the Image Editor)?

Not sure if you'd be able to write back to the EXIF header, or only to custom MC fields, but that would be awesome.

Regards,
Kwake
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marko

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Re: Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2006, 11:27:38 am »

last night, I jotted down a few ideas, and on paper at least, I think I might be able to set up some schemes and workflows to achieve these things, or get quite close to it. I'll let you know how it goes if anyone's interested?

Matt, I have not ticked away that warning, and while I hope you don't think I'm being argumentative, I don't see how this:

explains that EXIF data will be lost? The chosen task is to resize the image, so, yes, the 'original' image will be changed. How do you define 'original' in this case? because I see that dialogue whenever I choose the resize tool, regardless of whether the image is the original or not, and regardless of whether the image has EXIF data or not.

You may be technically correct about the 'new image, so saving EXIF data is not valid' thing, I don't know enough about the subject to debate the issue, but to me, and Directory Opus, Elements and acdsee, it makes sense. For me, it would mean that other programs that cannot read MJMD tags, would be able to read the saved EXIF tags instead.

What's the chances of MC being able to read IPTC caption data into it's database in the near future? That could potentially save a shedload of typing.

I'm off now, to have another look at my little project. Wish me luck :)

marko

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Re: Calendar preset view - can it show by "Date Created"?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2006, 04:28:54 pm »

I have version sets working. amazing!

stacks next...

then to see if I can glue the bits together into something easily useable.
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