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[slipknot]

In 11 I could highlight a few tracks and then set the track number for all using the MC tagging mode.

In 12 when I highlight a few tracks, there is no way (that I can see) to set the track number for all.

The new v12 tagging works, but it looks kind of "free form" and unstructured.

Having info next to the AlbumImage, takes aways valuable room for text, making it more necessary to move the screen around to make room just for tagging (which I never did for v11)

And is there a way to get rid of the Playlists and Format fields.  They just clutter up the display and it would look cleaner to me to be able to remove them (by user choice of course).

And is there a way to have the fields listed in display order?

[JimH]

Select, right click, Library Tools, Fill Track Number....

[slipknot]

Select, right click, Library Tools, Fill Track Number....

That's not what I meant.  I want/had the ability to set the track number ALL TO THE SAME VALUE for the selected files by using the normal tagging function in v11

With v12, when I select more than one track, the track number display goes away in the tagging window.

See, and you thought nobody ever did that....

[KingSparta]

I just did it in mc 12.0.81

the track number display goes away in the tagging window

Not here

[slipknot]

I just did it in mc 12.0.81

Not here

You have 2 tracks with the same track name, and highlight both (doesn't matter if the track numbers are the same).

In the tagging window, the track name now only shows the track name, the track number is not there anymore.

If only ONE track is selected the track number is shown to the left of the track name.

[BartMan01]

I can't even get Track # to show up in the 'Tag' window.  It doesn't appear as an option under 'more tags'.

[slipknot]

I can't even get Track # to show up in the 'Tag' window.  It doesn't appear as an option under 'more tags'.

It shows up to the left of the track name as the first line of the tagging window, over the album art.  But only when you have only one track selected.  Select more than one and the track number goes away (but the track name stays if all the track names are the same, otherwise <varies>).

[Magic_Randy]

I don't see it in the tagging window.  But it is there in the details pane.  You can edit it there, both for single tracks & multiple tracks.

[slipknot]

I don't see it in the tagging window.  But it is there in the details pane.  You can edit it there, both for single tracks & multiple tracks.

It sort of works in the details pane, with inconsistent operation, but it should be editable for multiple tracks in the tagging window, that's what it's for...

Select a field in the details pane (to make it the selected field) and then select more than one track.

Press F2 (rename) and change a value and press enter.  Notice how only the field you actually edited is changed.  Now repeat the setup but right click and choose rename and change the value and press enter, notice how ALL the fields get changed.  (I never tried this in v11).

Grid lines in the tagging window would also help lots to see what is connected to what.

[glynor]

I agree with slipknot on this issue (along with all of the other problems with the new Tag window discussed here and here)...

I sometimes want to reset that field on a bunch of files when the track numbers are either a) irrelevant or b) wrong (I still have files that always import with Track # = 33 and I have a Smartlist that lists them all and I go in and reset them to blank every so often).

[park]

Good point about having mutiple files selected. I hadnt noticed that.
Actually it took me ages to find the track number in the tagging window. I gave up and then one day found it up there in the top left. I dont like the "?" when there is no track # assigned. It looks like a font error (unrecognized character) or something.

I would also like to see a more elegant way of showing the ratings for multiply selected files. At the moment the ratings area just shows as empty dots which is very misleading. I accidentally tagged a whole album to 3 stars (my default when rating things I havent listened to) because i thought that none of the tracks had been rated.

It would be better if the ratings for mutiply selected files showed as "Varies" like everything else. That or an "Average Rating" display that is of course uneditable. Then you could click on a "Ratings" link if you really wanted to make them all the same rating.

[dcwebman]

Yes, Track # needs to be a field that can be added to the tag window just like Name is in both places (at the top and below).

[KingSparta]

I Liked The Tagging Window In MC 11 Better, You Had More Control Over All The Fields.

[dcwebman]

I Liked The Tagging Window In MC 11 Better, You Had More Control Over All The Fields.

I think the majority of users agree. We just can't get JRiver convinced. 

[lalittle]

I Liked The Tagging Window In MC 11 Better, You Had More Control Over All The Fields.

I (and many others) totally agree as well -- there were several aspects of the MC11 AW Tag Window that created an environment much more conducive to Tag editing that MC12 offers.  I'm still hoping that JR just hasn't "gotten to" this issue yet, and that they are planning to make some major changes to the MC12 Tag Window and offer a greater amount of customization to this window.

Larry

[KeystoneCop]

my first look at version 12....... 

The tagging screen leaves a lot to be desired.

I could not find track number. probably just my old eyes.

I sure would like the tag info to match the screen views of  the tags present.


maybe if I understood what your trying to do with tags I could buy into this, but I would not want this for my use.  sorry

[lalittle]

maybe if I understood what your trying to do with tags I could buy into this, but I would not want this for my use.  sorry

But even if you understood what they were going for, it would not change the fact that you are missing a part of MC that you want to use, and that was offered in the previous version.  In other words, regardless of what the "idea" is behind the changes, these changes have left us with a less effective environment for editing tags compared to MC11.

Larry

[slipknot]

I Liked The Tagging Window In MC 11 Better, You Had More Control Over All The Fields.

As best as I can tell from reading this thread and others, most seem to feel that way.

At this point I have stopped using MC12 beta due to the difficulty with tagging (even though I paid for it).  I have no doubt that tagging will improve and MC12 will be better than MC11, but this beta is not ready for me to use on a day to day basis (which is when I'm usually willing to become a beta tester...)  But I'm glad I got the chance to take a look around.

[marko]

I Liked The Tagging Window In MC 11 Better, You Had More Control Over All The Fields.

* marko nods in agreement

[glynor]

I Liked The Tagging Window In MC 11 Better, You Had More Control Over All The Fields.

Spoken like a true king.     (If you read those other threads, you know I agree already.)

I do think the new Tag window has some usefulness though.  I'm not ready to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".  I like the clean look and the "readyness" of the information it provides.  I just think it's better as an "Info Palate" type window rather than a "Work On the Tags" type window.

In this thread over here, I thought we came up with a pretty good solution that would give you the best of both worlds.  If the new Tag window had a button or option that could switch it from it's current style to a version more like MC11.1's style (call it Simple and Advanced Style Tagging or something) that would be great.  Some of us (me and Modelmaker and others with more than one monitor) would really also like to be able to detach the Advanced (MC11.1) Style Tag Editor from the Action Window and place it on our second monitor in a regular resizable dialog window.

Since I'd like to be able to switch back and forth between the two "styles" quickly, I'd prefer the checkbox/button/whatever to switch styles be located right in the current Tag AW (I also know we'd all prefer it remember it's last used state) rather than buried in the Options dialog.

[mesue]

Some of us (me and Modelmaker and others with more than one monitor) would really also like to be able to detach the Advanced (MC11.1) Style Tag Editor from the Action Window and place it on our second monitor in a regular resizable dialog window.

yes yes yes yes yes YES

[Matt]

Keep in mind that in-place editing is very powerful.  You can create a view scheme with whatever columns you want and tag essentially fullscreen.

[glynor]

Keep in mind that in-place editing is very powerful.  You can create a view scheme with whatever columns you want and tag essentially fullscreen.

True, but I have to touch the mouse (tabbing through 35 columns isn't really quick or effective), which is always a huge speed killer.  I could tag files about 10 times faster in MC11.1 (and a lot of that speed has to do with not scrolling back and forth).

Plus, even though it DOES work for multiple files, it certainly isn't easy to use or always intuitive.

[Deivit]

Plus, even though it DOES work for multiple files, it certainly isn't easy to use or always intuitive.

It does?? That would save me a lot of trouble. How do you do that?

[EDIT]
You mean multiple files using the grid (details), not tagging mode, right?

[glynor]

It does?? That would save me a lot of trouble. How do you do that?

[EDIT]
You mean multiple files using the grid (details), not tagging mode, right?

It doesn't.  I was smoking crack or something.  And that's another huge problem with using the Details view to do tagging.  Part of the whole way I tag files quickly is by using the Tag Editor AW in MC11.1 to "multi-tag" as many files as possible at a time.

I go through a big list of "new" files.  Select all of them that go to the same Genre and tag it.  Then subselect those from the same Artist and tag them.  Then subselect the albums and tag them.  On to the next.  I hardly ever to them one at a time, except to fix the track names (and half the time I'm too lazy to do that and I just clear them).

[Deivit]

It doesn't.  I was smoking crack or something.

Oh, I see.

[glynor]

 

Sorry!

I thought it did, but didn't actually test it because I was posting from my Mac and I was too lazy to hit the switch on the KVM.

[Deivit]

No problem... you don't have to apologyze, Glynor. You're always of a great help, smoking or none.

[Matt]

In-place editing FULLY SUPPORTS multiple files at once.  Select a bunch, right-click > Rename.  (or F2) 

Tab, Shift-Tab, Pg-Up, Pg-Down, etc. also work with multiple files selected.

[Alex B]

I have tagged my complete library mostly in details view. It is very powerful like Matt said. I use a similar technique that I use with large Excel sheets. It is a combination of mouse clicks and keyboard shortcuts. I hardly ever use AW for tagging.

However, I was surprised that tagging in AW was obviously on JRiver's high priority issues list. I don't recall any problems reported in the MC forum.

The old system was fine for me. I have not used the new system enough to be certain of my opinion. With my AW tagging frequency it may take a year or two.

[glynor]

In-place editing FULLY SUPPORTS multiple files at once.  Select a bunch, right-click > Rename.  (or F2) 

Tab, Shift-Tab, Pg-Up, Pg-Down, etc. also work with multiple files selected.

So it does.

I'm actually a bit less concerned about the Tag Editor now.

My main issue that it requires quite a bit of mousing (and endlessly scrolling left and right) is still a concern though.  I will have to see how this works and report back.

[glynor]

Well, I've played with it a bit with my newfound F2/Rename knowledge (see, and even though I was apparently "smoking crack or something" I was still right -- even junkies get it right every once in a while)...

I have to say... I'm very cautiously optimistic (and somewhat shocked that I never stumbled upon this method before).

I haven't done any "hard core tagging" yet, though I plan to try sometime later this week.  I have a lot of untagged Video files built up that I've been ignoring because it was such a pain to tag them using the Tag AW.  This could change a bit about my opinions.

I seriously doubt that it will change everything, but I'm going to give it a chance and see what I think.

[EpF]

Keep in mind that in-place editing is very powerful.  You can create a view scheme with whatever columns you want and tag essentially fullscreen.

Viewschemes and column view editing are fine for certain things - e.g., when you already know that you want to edit or view certain tags, or when you have a new batch of files and you have schemes set up for processing them, but in v12 you could end up having to navigate through several levels of the tree to get to a viewscheme which has the tags you want, or have to reset your columns in 'customize current view', only to then have to either navigate back or reset your columns in order to get back to where you were, when in 11.1, it's all there in the AW!

If you are casually browsing your files and something occurs to you that you either want to know or change or add in the tags, the easiest way with 11.1 is to go to the AW - there is the definitive repository of ALL the tags that a file could *possibly* have in a clearly organized structure, and you are completely free to manipulate those tags *as you see fit*! The effectiveness of this setup means that I use it regularly and often. The inaccessability and uncategorised sprawl of the v12 AW tagging window means that it's usefulness is seriously crippled, imo, and I'm still looking at the new beta release threads hoping to see 2 entries:

Changed: All tag fields now available through the AW tagging window (irrespective of media-type)
Changed: AW tag fields now accessible through categorized menu system

If I ever see those, I'll buy the program! And if I see this:

Changed: AW tag fields now accessible through categorized menu system (Customizable)

I'll jump for joy into the bargain!

[lalittle]

In-place editing FULLY SUPPORTS multiple files at once.  Select a bunch, right-click > Rename.  (or F2) 

Tab, Shift-Tab, Pg-Up, Pg-Down, etc. also work with multiple files selected.

I actually have known about this capability the whole time, but I find that it's simply not as easy to use as the Tag Window.  Part of this is a subjective preference, but given the need to scroll in the track pane (at which point you may not be able to see both the name of the track AND the field you want to edit, which is disconcerting), and given that not all the tags will be in View Scheme you're using, the track pane is not as conducive to the process of tag editing.  I like the consistancy of using the Tag Window in this regard -- it's ONE place you go to in order to see ALL the tags regardless of the current View Scheme, and it makes sense to edit them here.

Glynor -- I sure hope we don't lose your vehemence in this argument.  I personally STILL greatly prefer to edit in the Tag Window even when only editing a single track.  There are a LOT of features we've been fighting for here, such as being able to change the order of the Tag Window list, having the Tag Window list change depending on the View scheme, adding grid lines, having a different color for "read only" fields, etc.  The fact that you can edit mulitple tracks in the track window doesn't solve any of these issues, and it does not change the fact that the specific workflow involved when editing in the Tag Window is distinctly different than editing in the track pane.

Please remember that this is NOT just about whether you "can" edit tags in the track pane or Tag Window, it's about the specifics of the workflow involved -- i.e. the "ergonomics" of the system.  The issue of "how" things are done is one of the biggest factors when comes why certain software stands out from the crowd.

Larry

[dcwebman]

After months of people saying the tagging is not as good as 11, I personally doubt we're going to see a major change. If I knew how to write a plug-in, I'd do it, but I can already see someone writing a plug-in to do major tag editing like what most people want. Doof did the ultimate Lyrics Editor. Now we just need the ultimate Advanced Tag Editor.

[JimH]

We will either change it so most people are happy with it, or we'll revert to the former tagging method.  We're not proud.

But the Twins lost today and we're unable to cope with anything more at the moment.

[lalittle]

We will either change it so most people are happy with it, or we'll revert to the former tagging method.  We're not proud.

But the Twins lost today and we're unable to cope with anything more at the moment.

Jim,

Sorry about the Twins.

I'm really curious to hear your reaction to the idea of giving the Tag window it's own "Options" page.  It seems to me that this could be a solution that makes everybody happy.  I know that there is a valid argument to not add "too many" customization options, but given the popularity and strong feelings on this subject, and the fact that so many people seem to like to use the Tag window in different ways, doesn't the Tag window really "deserve" it's own option page?  As I said before, this is a "workhorse" section of MC, and it seems like this is exactly the type of situation that calls for a new "Options" page.

I picture a Tag Window "Options" page that, like the "Handheld" options page, would be accessible from the main "Options" menu OR from actual Tag Window.

Thanks for keeping us informed on this subject,

Larry

PS.  BE Proud!

[Matt]

a solution that makes everybody happy

You're an optimist.

[lalittle]

You're an optimist.

Perhaps, but I think it's very safe to say that if you give people the ability to configure the AW Tag Window to their specific needs and preferences, you'll make a lot MORE people happy.  This has always seemed to be the design approach in MC -- i.e. give people more configuration options so they can mold the program to their needs.  This has always been an area where MC really outshines the competition.

Larry

[glynor]

Part of this is a subjective preference, but given the need to scroll in the track pane (at which point you may not be able to see both the name of the track AND the field you want to edit, which is disconcerting)

No.  You haven't completely lost me.  I've played some more with it, and I am quite happy that I now know about it now, but this is the one big thing that still bothers me.

I'm never sure what I'm editing, and... good word, it's disconcerting.  The MC11.1 way I could clearly and easily check to see what is selected before making a change to multiple files (and de-select some files and select some more quickly and easily).

It's also still definitely slower than the MC11.1 way...  It seems like a small thing, but scrolling left and right is not as convenient as scrolling up and down.  Maybe some day I'll get one of those swanky left-right scroll wheels, but until then... This is made worse by the fact that I can't typically see what I have selected when I'm editing a field that's placed "way over" to the right side (because the "name" and "artist" and other basic fields have scrolled off the screen).  I have to scroll all the way back over, select something else (or often I find just verify that I have the right thing selected -- and fix it when I don't), then scroll back right and figure out where I was again.  There's other stuff too... I still miss the MC11.1 editor's collapsible groupings for example.

Still ... There are some things I like a lot, and I'm glad I learned it, but I'm still on the bandwagon.   

Goes to show.  There's a thing or two that'll always surprise you about this amazing program.  (Well, maybe not matt, but the rest of us mere mortals.)

You're an optimist.

I feel your pain.

[Alex B]

I actually have known about this capability the whole time, but I find that it's simply not as easy to use as the Tag Window.  Part of this is a subjective preference, but given the need to scroll in the track pane (at which point you may not be able to see both the name of the track AND the field you want to edit, which is disconcerting), and given that not all the tags will be in View Scheme you're using, the track pane is not as conducive to the process of tag editing.  I like the consistancy of using the Tag Window in this regard -- it's ONE place you go to in order to see ALL the tags regardless of the current View Scheme, and it makes sense to edit them here.

I'm never sure what I'm editing, and... good word, it's disconcerting.  The MC11.1 way I could clearly and easily check to see what is selected before making a change to multiple files (and de-select some files and select some more quickly and easily).

It's also still definitely slower than the MC11.1 way...  It seems like a small thing, but scrolling left and right is not as convenient as scrolling up and down.  Maybe some day I'll get one of those swanky left-right scroll wheels, but until then... This is made worse by the fact that I can't typically see what I have selected when I'm editing a field that's placed "way over" to the right side (because the "name" and "artist" and other basic fields have scrolled off the screen).  I have to scroll all the way back over, select something else (or often I find just verify that I have the right thing selected -- and fix it when I don't), then scroll back right and figure out where I was again.  There's other stuff too... I still miss the MC11.1 editor's collapsible groupings for example..

You could try my test library from here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=36003.0. The "All Media" details view scheme has 54 visible columns. I have the "Filename" field somewhere in the middle and the "Filename (name) & (path)" fields at the end of the row. This helps a bit in identifying the files when I scroll back and forth horizontally. (Also, I would appreciate if someone could actually try to reproduce my bug findings in that thread. It has been a monologue so far...)

I have been thinking how I could demonstrate my usual tagging style. Here is a try:

The task:

Import subtitle files from the video file folder. The video files are already imported and partially tagged. Tag all files properly and rename the disk files.

1. Select the files in Windows Explorer and drag them to Playing Now.

The screen looks like this at this stage:



2. Click the artist column (in the file area) > press Ctrl+A > press F2 > press Enter
=> Result: all files have the Artist field filled as "Keeping Up Appearances".

3.

a) Click the Name field of the first file, press Shift (keep pressed) + Down Arrow two times, press F2, press Enter
=> Result: the first three files have the Name field filled as "S01E01 - Daddy's Accident".

b) Press Down Arrow once, press Shift (keep pressed) + Down Arrow two times, press F2, press Enter
=> Result: the next three files have the Name field filled as "S01E02 - The Christening".

c) Repeat the step 3.b) four times for fixing the rest of the names.

4. Click the album column, press Ctrl+A, press F2, write the album name (Series 1) and press enter
=> Result: all files have the Album field filled as "Series 1"

5. Click the Date column, press Ctrl+A, press F2, write the correct year (1990) and press Enter
=> Result: all files have the Date field filled as "1990"

6. Click the File Type column header to reorder the files. Click the first AVI file on the Genre column, press Shift (keep pressed) + Down Arrow five times, press F2, Write "Co" (MC suggests Comedy), press Enter, press Down Arrow once, press Shift+End, press F2, Write "Su" (MC suggests Subtitles), press Enter.
=> Result: all AVI files have the Genre field filled as "Comedy" and all IDX & RAR files have the Genre field filled as "Subtitles"

7. All subtitle files are still selected. Press Shift (keep pressed) + Up Arrow six times (to select only the IDX files), use the "Fill Track Numbers From List Order" tool, press Down Arrow once, press Shift+End (to select only the RAR files), use the "Fill Track Numbers From List Order" tool.
=> Result: all subtitle files have correct track numbers.

8. Press CTRL+A and right-click import.

9. Use the Rename Files From Properties tool.

The end result:

This kind of tagging process takes only a few seconds of my time. The shortcuts have become intuitive to me so I don't need to think about the key combinations.


Despite of my usual tagging style, I agree that AW tagging should be at least as useful as it was in MC11.1. There are times when I need and use it.


Edit: Perhaps "a few seconds" was a bit optimistic estimation. I just tagged the KUA Series 2 similarly. It took about 50 seconds. However, I don't think I could have done it faster with MC11.1's AW.

[lalittle]

Despite of my usual tagging style, I agree that AW tagging should be at least as useful as it was in MC11.1. There are times when I need and use it.

I agree -- and this is the important point.  Regardless of how well another method works for one person, another person may still prefer to use the Tag Window for this purpose.  MC's strength has always been it's ability to offer this sort of choice.

Larry

[Doof]

Personally, I like the style of MC12's tagging window, but miss the functionality of MC11's.

[glynor]

We will either change it so most people are happy with it, or we'll revert to the former tagging method.  We're not proud.

I'm very heartened to hear this Jim, and I wanted to say thank you for listening to our feedback (the roar was a bit deafening, but still).   

Oh, and sorry about the Twins.   

[glynor]

Don't be sorry because it is a bug/bad design. The track # in the past could always be edited in the tag window...

(And regarding all the rest of the Tagging stuff in the recent build thread.)

Not to be a pain at all to anyone, but regarding the Tag AW and everything...

I think they get it.  We've all made our points abundantly clear, and Jim has stated that something will be done to make it work again for us (well, he said to make "everyone happy" but that seems a bit unrealistic  ).  There's even been some hints that something will be coming soon.

I just think there's no further need to keep hammering away on it, now that they've committed to doing something about it.  Let's all just try to be a little patient, and let Matt and everyone work their magic. (At least until we see the results of what they come up with!)

[raym]

(And regarding all the rest of the Tagging stuff in the recent build thread.)

Not to be a pain at all to anyone, but regarding the Tag AW and everything...

I think they get it.  We've all made our points abundantly clear, and Jim has stated that something will be done to make it work again for us (well, he said to make "everyone happy" but that seems a bit unrealistic  ).  There's even been some hints that something will be coming soon.

I just think there's no further need to keep hammering away on it, now that they've committed to doing something about it.  Let's all just try to be a little patient, and let Matt and everyone work their magic. (At least until we see the results of what they come up with!)

Ok Dad 

[glynor]

Ok Dad 

Well played. 

[dcwebman]

I just think there's no further need to keep hammering away on it, now that they've committed to doing something about it.  Let's all just try to be a little patient, and let Matt and everyone work their magic. (At least until we see the results of what they come up with!)

I really don't want to disagree, but the past has shown the opposite. Posts gets entered with suggestions/problems with no comments from JRiver and sometimes no changes being made. How many months have we been complaining about the tag window now? Tagging files is a major part of the program in my opinion and one of the primary reasons I purchased MC years ago. We don't know their list of proposed changes/bugs/priorities/etc. and we shouldn't be privy to that information. Unfortunately then it seems that repeated posts eventually get attention.

As an example, I had first listed the number of fields that were missing from the tag window in a normal post. Nothing happened. When I finally started including it as a bug in the build posts, it took a few builds, but those fields finally got put in.

I do believe that one of them said that when more people comment on an issue then that gets more attention than if just one person has an issue. Certainly makes sense, but to be quiet and not say anything will not let them know the area(s) that need work and the proposed solutions.

[glynor]

I really don't want to disagree, but the past has shown the opposite. Posts gets entered with suggestions/problems with no comments from JRiver and sometimes no changes being made. How many months have we been complaining about the tag window now? Tagging files is a major part of the program in my opinion and one of the primary reasons I purchased MC years ago. We don't know their list of proposed changes/bugs/priorities/etc. and we shouldn't be privy to that information. Unfortunately then it seems that repeated posts eventually get attention.

I agree and would strongly encourage continued "hammering" if JimH had not just said:

We will either change it so most people are happy with it, or we'll revert to the former tagging method.  We're not proud.

But the Twins lost today and we're unable to cope with anything more at the moment.

That's all I'm saying.  In this case there are not "no comments from JRiver and sometimes no changes being made."  If another two weeks pass and there's been no movement on the issue, I'd be the one leading the charge to bring it up again.   

Still, I guess it's not really for me to decide for everyone... Hammer away if you like.  That's just the reason I'm going to keep mum on the issue for a bit.

[lalittle]

I think both of you make good points, but my inclination is to not back off of this issue (at least not too much) for fear that it might lead to fewer changes in this regard.  If the squeaky wheel starts squeaking less, it tends to send the message that it doesn't need as much oil as one had thought.  These forums are MADE for these type of comments, and the only way JR can tell what's important to us is if we continue to post here.  I don't think this should be seen as "hammering" them -- I think it's better to see it as keeping a light shining on this issue, and therefore continuing to let JR know what we do and don't like about the program.  The presence of a lot of posts is not a "negative" thing -- it simply means that it's an important issue.

My concern at this point would be that only "some" of the changes we've been asking for will be added to the Tag Window, and that we could end up with something that's "okay" rather than truly "great."  I'm still hoping for a Tag window that gives up everything MC11 did, PLUS extra features that make it configurable in ways that MC11's Tag Window did not.  This is still completely possible, but only if the users continue to post with their opinions on the subject.

I hope that this message comes accross in the right light since the reason that I post here is because I really love MC, and want it to continue to be the fantastic program that it has already proven itself to be.  Any strong opinions I express are due to my passion for keeping this program the best it can be.

Thanks,

Larry