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[glynor]

Something weird is going on...

I'm tagging a bunch of my video files (XviD AVIs) and then when I'm done I'm doing a "Rename Files from Properties" to move them to their final destination on my media drive (and name them properly).  It's moving them properly, but the files all lose their new tags.  I effectively have to tag all the files twice!

What's the story?

I do this all the time so I know it should work (though I've been slacking for about a week and a half on organizing my stuff so I'm not sure when it broke).

[lalittle]

Something weird is going on...

I'm tagging a bunch of my video files (XviD AVIs) and then when I'm done I'm doing a "rename files from Properties" to move them to their final destination on my media drive (and name them properly).  It's moving them properly, but the files all lose their new tags.

What's the story?

Is this limited to AVIs?  You might want to do a test with another filetype.  I use the "Rename from tag" process all the time with mp3 and Audible files, and have never had a problem with it.  I haven't, however, tried it with 117 or 118, and I've never had any AVIs in my library.

Larry

[glynor]

Yeah.  I don't know.  I've had it work a bunch of times now with other AVIs.  It definitely lost tag data two times now though on some AVIs that I've been working on.

More details... The files I'm tagging are all on a network drive.  After I'm done tagging (which I do by drag-dropping them onto the tree for the most part and then cleaning up the individual [Name] tags), I run the Rename Files From Properties tool to move them to my main Media drive (which happens to be local since I'm using my HTPC to do this).

Now, I often click "OK" on the Rename Files From Properties tool and then move on to another set of files and start tagging them while the "Saving Tags" (which is really moving the files across the network) finishes.  I do this all the time and it's always worked.

I think what happened this time though is MC "lost" a bunch of my AVI files, and then Otto re-imported them.

As I said, it hasn't happened again.  I'm now being more careful though and waiting for the move operation to complete before resuming tagging additional files.  This was most certainly not necessary before (and could be a huge problem for me).  I have no real evidence that this is what caused the problem of course, it's only superstition at this point.  I'll try more...

[glynor]

No.  It just lost some more, and I didn't do any additional tagging while waiting for the Rename Files from Properties tool to finish.

I think I figured something out though...

I think it's Otto.  This time, I was moving an entire season of TV shows which I had just finished tagging.  Exactly 1/2 of the files got "lost" by MC.  The files did properly move, but they were no longer in MC's database.

Then, I switched back to my "All Video" view, which is sorted by Date Imported (with new stuff on top).  There at the top were entries (with no tags) of each of the 12 files that disappeared, but broken and pointing to the old location (before they were moved).

I think Otto is detecting the change in the directory caused by the Rename tool and then trying to import the files as they're being moved.  It's royally screwing it up though.  If I "Rename From Properties" with any large number of files, MC loses a whole bunch of them!  It probably has something to do with the "five minute limit on Otto" mentioned previously....

The "renames" I did that all worked flawlessly were all ones that were able to complete quickly (3-4 files).  The ones that lost stuff were all big groups (10-40 files).

[glynor]

I should mention... This is a pretty serious bug IMHO.  It makes tagging video files in MC essentially useless for me, as after I move them to their final destinations I have to go find them and re-tag them all... 

[lalittle]

I should mention... This is a pretty serious bug IMHO.  It makes tagging video files in MC essentially useless for me, as after I move them to their final destinations I have to go find them and re-tag them all... 

Agreed.  Do you have any video files other than AVIs?  I'm curious if this would effect mp4s as well, but I haven't had a chance to test it.  I think I'll be turning OTTO off until I hear back from you on this issue.

Thanks for the warning.

Larry

[Alex B]

This can happen with all formats that cannot hold tags - video, images, documents, wave audio etc.

This happens also if untaggable files are not moved but actually externally changed. When a file format does not contain tags MC replaces library data with the default filename and date based info.

This is the reason why I don't use the "Update for external changes" option. As I have requested, this and the "Fix broken links" options should be changed to be folder specific. Each defined folder should have separate options. Then I could use Otto only for a couple of folders and let him fully maintain them.

[glynor]

So it might be a function of the "Update files for external changes" option...  I'm not sure.  The files it lost didn't have any changes, other than attempting to move them via the Rename From Properties tool.  In fact, those particular files had been tagged for months and I never got around to moving them from the "incoming drive" to the "media drive".

It also doesn't quite fit that the new entries that Otto imported for the 12 files that got lost pointed to the files in the old location (before the move), and were broken (of course since the Rename process did actually move them).

Either way, I've disabled that option for now (I don't really need it anyway -- I use MC for essentially all my tagging).  I'll have to see if it happens again.  For now, I've already finished tagging and moving most of my files so I don't have a big batch to use it on anymore.  I did test it with a slightly smaller batch of 25 files and it worked just fine.  That could have been a fluke though!

When I have more time, I'll test it more thoroughly.

Oh, and Larry, I certainly have files other than AVIs.  I suspect Alex is right and that it would apply to lots of file types.  I just don't have the time to spend figuring it out tonight unfortunately!

[Alex B]

This happens also if untaggable files are not moved but actually externally changed. When a file format does not contain tags MC replaces library data with the default filename and date based info.

I have tested and verified this part.

I edited some png image & mpg video files outside MC. Otto replaced certain library field values when the "Update for external changes" option was enabled.

[glynor]

Well I don't really like that option anyway then.  If When I ever get my video workstation set back up again (moving really stinks) it would have become a problem.

[hit_ny]

I should mention... This is a pretty serious bug IMHO.  It makes tagging video files in MC essentially useless for me, as after I move them to their final destinations I have to go find them and re-tag them all... 

What if you disable Otto

..can you still reproduce the tag loss ?

[lalittle]

This can happen with all formats that cannot hold tags - video, images, documents, wave audio etc.

I think I must be misunderstanding something here.  It "seems" like you're saying that "Rename from Properties" can cause tag data to be lost, but I don't understand why this would be the case, and I use "Rename from Properties" on Audible files (which cannot hold tags) all the time, and it works fine -- i.e. the custom tag info remains after the operation.

Thanks for any clarification,

Larry

[Alex B]

I think I must be misunderstanding something here.  It "seems" like you're saying that "Rename from Properties" can cause tag data to be lost, but I don't understand why this would be the case, and I use "Rename from Properties" on Audible files (which cannot hold tags) all the time, and it works fine -- i.e. the custom tag info remains after the operation.

I meant that it can happen as glynor explained in case Otto checks the folders before the files are physically moved. However, usually only video files can be this big.

I was able to reproduce this behavior by first moving a bunch of wave files (the library fields were fine after this step) and then doing "Undo" and "Run Auto-import Now" in sequence as quick as I could.

[glynor]

However, usually only video files can be this big.

Right!  It appears, Larry, that the issue only crops up when the files take a long time to move via the Rename from Properties tool.  For example, when I tried to move 40 or so 350 MB XviD AVIs using it, it lost tag info for about 1/2 of the files.  That "move" took much more than 5 minutes to finish (especially when one "end" of the move was on a network drive).

[park]

I started a similar thread recently about a similar issue (using the "move" and "rename files..." tools.)

I propose a "suspend auto import" tick box on those tools, and a "suspend/start auto import" entry in the tools menu.

[glynor]

I started a similar thread recently about a similar issue (using the "move" and "rename files..." tools.)

I propose a "suspend auto import" tick box on those tools, and a "suspend/start auto import" entry in the tools menu.

Rather than a tickbox, it should just automatically suspend Otto while the move/copy or rename tool is running.

I'm not sure if there's an easy way for MC to know when it's operation is done though, especially with the move/copy tool.

[lalittle]

I see what you're saying now.

I agree that it should not be a "tickbox."  Suspending OTTO should definitely be automatic if it's going to interfere with a "Rename" operation.  Anything that would cause tags to be lost should simply "not happen."

Larry

[Alex B]

Anything that would cause tags to be lost should simply "not happen."

Exactly.

Also, as I have requested, Otto should check for external changes and broken links only in my two defined Auto-import folders instead of all 2915 folders that are present in the library.

[lalittle]

Exactly.

Also, as I have requested, Otto should check for external changes and broken links only in my two defined Auto-import folders instead of all 2915 folders that are present in the library.

So you're saying that OTTO is effecting folders that you have NOT told it to?  This is sounding rather dangerous.

Thanks,

Larry

[Alex B]

So you're saying that OTTO is effecting folders that you have NOT told it to?

The "Update for external changes" and "Fix broken links" options check always the complete library. This has not changed. The old import tool worked similarly.