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Author Topic: help me design my dream computer around mj  (Read 1900 times)

kandarohidharmapala

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help me design my dream computer around mj
« on: August 29, 2002, 02:12:53 am »

sometime in the next 6 months, i hope to be completely replacing my entire computer setup, and as using mj to listen to music mostly obtained as 128bps mp3s, want to really spend on the sound side of my new computer. as i am not a gamer, i do not feel i need the top performance graphics stuff i find most top end pcs want you to include in their configurations, and as most of my education in qulity sound reproduction comes from sound engineering, live performance, (i am a proffessional musician and music teacher), and top end hi fi, when i surf around trying to find a way of recording,(inc live/multitrack recording), and listening to music does not seem to translate into useful knowledge to guide me in choosing and configuring a new pc, or choosing software for it. (in this case, i have no knowledge of what is, or is not, compatible with mj). i am a computer newbie, and only vaguely understand how they process sound, but believe that at least one issue i need to address is how to continue with p2p, but get the highest bitrates possible. i used to use audiogalaxy until the riaa got hold of them, and recently switched to kazaalite, but as by then my 4gig hard drive was full, i have had no chance to evaluate it properly. Qi listen mostly to jazzrock/jazzfusion).

  my understanding of hifi teaches me that ensuring top quality source material must come first, that physically separating the functions of pramplification from power amplification results in better sound, and that keeping the preamps power supply away from the circuitry responsible for source reading, and raising this to line level, whilst keeping the connections short result in better sound, and that going through as few processing stages as possible from there to the speakers, via a power amp stage that has as much headroom as possible,(trusting the fact that the guys in the recording studio, with access to equipment costing far more than the average hi fi buff can afford knew what they were doing when they stereomastered the original, and the task of hifi reproduction is simply to as faithfully as possible reproduce that sound with as little attenuation as possible), but have yet to hear of any pc supplier/ software designers who put this philosophy into practice.
top end pcs seem to me as i surf around to be designed for power gamers, not audiophiles like me.

i wish to make my new pc the heart of my listening and recording environment, so real hi fi sound, at all stages of reproduction is what i most want from it. anyone spotting useful websites, knowing pc suppliers who specialize in catering to guys like me, or who know groovy software that i might be interested in, providing that software is known not to conflict with mj, please post your suggestions to me. as a reference for those who know hifi, i used to have a linn sondek lp12, with ekos arm, k18 mm cartridge, linn lk1 preamp, linn lk280 poweramp, linn isobarik speakers, and i am hoping to get as close to that quality of sound from my new pc setup. i sold that system for £3000, with a lot of extras thrown in, and have about £4500 to spend on my new system. but i dont know what that is in dollars.

   a budget system recommended to me by a local supplier, which i hope to better, is given below, and represents the best compromize i have come up with so far.

amd 1800|PLS|cpu

2fi via board msi sdram motherboard

geforce11 64mb graphics card

256 pc133 sdram

2x 60 gig hdd

soundblaster audigy platinum soundcard

32x cdrw

16x dvd

low noise fan

56k v92 pc1 modem

atx midi case

c60 epson 2800dpi printer

19 inch crt monitor

creative inspire 5.1 speakers

keyboard, mouse

operating system supplied by me (WINDOWS98SE)

transfer of data and operating system from present computer to new one( to keep all my mp3s, and purchased and licensed software, but put it all on the new pc)

total cost......£1150.

anyone improving on this system for sound reproduction, please post your ideas, relevant weblinks to reviews/suppliers, for instance4, are klipsch 5.1s better than creatives best, are jbls better still? etc.......thanks for patiently reading all this, i greatly anticipate any advice or suggestions/ideas.
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Galley

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RE:help me design my dream computer around mj
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2002, 05:23:04 am »

Building a sweet new system and then installing Win98 on it is akin to putting a Pinto engine inside a Ferrari body!
I was planning on building a new system for a friend, but after doing some research, I found that I could have one custom-built (with a full 3-year warranty plus free lifetime tech support) for about the same price.  I got it from CyberPower.  I have purchased from them before, so I know they were a good company.  I realize that you live overseas, so you should be able to find similar deals online.
Basically for $800, I got them:
Athlon 1800|PLS|
512MB DDR RAM
60GB 7200rpm hard drive
Gigabyte mobo (#1 rated, with 2 USB 1.1 and 4 USB 2.0 ports)
40x CD-burner
16x DVD-ROM
Floppy
Microsoft Office keyboard
Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical
A fancy case
GeForce 3 with 64MB RAM
Windows XP Pro
(The mobo has on-board 5.1 sound, which is good enough until he throws an Audigy in it)

As far as audio goes, then any  Audigy card is your best bet for a consumer card.  I have a Platinum model, but they also make a Platinum EX with an external breakout box, so there should be less internal noise.  For the same price, you can get the TerraTec DMX 6fire, which is a true 24-bit card for musicians, and also is a great card for gamers.
Here's a comparison between the two:
Tom's Hardware

You wanna get as much RAM as you can.  I don't think Win98 utilizes and more than 256MB; XP can handle up to 4GB.
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PhatPhreddy

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RE:help me design my dream computer around mj
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2002, 07:05:33 am »

Ahh a true high end audio PC... A fave topic with me and many AVS'ers...

Some suggested reading would be

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0802/aachapter36.htm
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164109&highlight=theta
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163015&highlight=theta

And of course Hydrogen Audio forums...

Some food for thought... The RME cards in the 600 to 1000 category are very highly regarded (as the above links demonstrate) and can stand proud against $5000 boutique transports... You mention a budget that sounds like it may accomodate this end of the market...

Of course up there you wont want MP3's... I dont have them for anything other than checking a band or group out... Budget on getting DSL and start looking for APE files... Hubs and servers are springing up and the amount of lossless encoded material online is starting to bloom as people with the taste for it get broadband that can accomodate it..  1000's of full album rips are available in complete CD quality if you know where to look...

Have you given any thought to how the fans in your system will operate (noise is a killer in an nice sound setup)... Personally i am waiting on a ful watercooling kit and silent PSU... There will be one Low RPM low noise 80mm fan emmiting <15bd inside the PC case and if I can hear this outside the case I will use sound insulation to deaden this further...

Win98 may be a pinto compared to XP in usability but 98SE was the last MS OS that was not screwed over by the WDM driver model and all its audio bugs... Have a search for KMixer on here and the AVSforum's HTPC section and make your own call... Personally I run XP anyway and am hopeful that corona may have some of these issues addressed (rather than simply being a forced DRM bait and switch ploy... GRRR Revised EULA's should be illegal /rant )but 98SE is the last OS that can output bitperfect CD audio (without an ASIO driver model) and play DTS and 24/96 CD's)...

Forget the audigy soundcard and if you are looking in that budget range look at an audiophile 24/96 if digital out to a reciever is the plan or a M-Audio 410 if analogue out is desired... Check out www.digitalconnection.com for a supplier of these cards and a very good PC builder for audio / HT PC's... I bought my first HTPC from them and had it shipped to Europe.... The audigy cannot even handle 24/96 resolution all the way through its pipelines (despite its sales info) and although they can do good double duty as a gaming soundcard / casual use card the S/N and THD specs are very poor even though they exagerate them... Cards like the Ego-Sys 24/192 or RME or M-Audio are true studio level professional products and stand head and shoulders above consumer cards like the soundblaster or terratec etc...

One benfit of the M-Audio line is that thier new HT drivers (made possible by Cliff from DC mentioned above) have basic Pre Pro functionality in the driver... This way you need no preamplifyer only power amps... Its still not a perfect setup but it is workable...

So then the speakers... Hmm this is where wars get started... I love norh products and if you like the looks and can accomodate the size I belive they do a 5.1 video package with the ceramic 4.0's that is very highly reccomended... Lots of possible suggestions here in the price range you are looking... I would consider putting at least 50% of your budget into the speakers and amps (power) that you purchase PC HW and SW evolves fast a good set of speakers lasts a very long time...

This is just some suggested links reading and ideas... The budget you mention has the possibility of being a real superb multi channel setup that truly satisfies but I would say that some time spent reading forums like Hydrogen Audio / AVS / Harmonic Discord / Even audio Asylum (though those guys get me laughing with the putting speaker cables on plastic cups to raise off the floor tweaks) will save you a lot of many and improve the sonics of your syetm no end...

If you have specific questions let me know....

I hope this is a pointer
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zevele1

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RE:help me design my dream computer around mj
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2002, 09:11:11 am »

PhP

You impress me! I am not teasing you,i mean it!

My stereo system is dying and i thing i will take the download side of Hi-Fi
To buy only a good system,play loud and not think about it.

Do you need millions $$$$$|hours search-settings to play punk,Stooges and mono 60' garage\spy.I am less and less sure about it.

The same about home cinema.To me it is not Hi-Fi.I still have to get the noise of a horse coming straight to me from my back,or my left or my right in real life.....

From the time i was in England,i remember a crazy fave: to put cds in the freezer for few hours,to 'defrost' them and play them

They said the sound was much better.............

Anyway ,a cd does not have a good sound.....

Back to mono\analog
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nila

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RE:help me design my dream computer around mj
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2002, 01:01:11 pm »

darn - that is a LOT of cash.
For around £1000 I built this:

Amd Athlon 2000 XP (recommend it as it's currently the best value for money)

Buy the AT7 Max Motherboard or if you want one with a bit more support for things like keyboards and mice that aren't usb then buy the kx7-333r which I have.

for fan buy the Zaflan flower fan - works pretty well and is darn silent.

Also buy yourself 3 silent case fans (www.overclockers.co.uk)

buy yourself 2x80 gig IBM 120GXP hard drives (got rated the fastest and they're cheap).

Liteon 48x40x12 CDRW - great drives and dirt cheap (£45)

Liteon 16x DVD - cheap again and good

Buy a single 512 stick of DDR ram at 2100

Iiyama Vision Master Pro 454 19" monitor (reviewed at www.pcpro.co.uk in their a-list) - £291

Chieftec Scorpio Black TX-10 BD 340W PFC Midi Case (£85) - nice case with alot of space for internal fans.

printer - I'll add tomorrow - a new true 6 colour one has just come out that's meant to be DAMN good - gotta find the review.

keyboard/mouse - personal preferance but I LOVE the MS Natural keyboard pro - once you get used to an ergonomic keyboard they are so sweet and they dont take long to get used to either, couple of weeks or so. Otherwise I recommend:
Logitech Internet Navigator™ Keyboard
Cordless MouseMan® Optical


websites to buy from:
www.aria.co.uk
www.rlsupplies.com
www.scan.co.uk
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/


Sure there's more but it's 10pm and I been at work since 9am.
I'm off to bed.
g'night all

Oh yeah - and by the way - all this super hardware with Win98 is a bit wasted, it cant manage memory properly and it always runs out of system resources if you use it alot.
Strongly recommend getting yourself either 2k which should be cheaper now due to it being old but is highly reliable or XP.
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kandarohi dharmapala

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RE:help me design my dream computer around mj
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2002, 02:34:22 am »

thank you all so much for all your helpful replies, particularly phat freddy.... please could you all include or post now any weblinks to sites i might find useful in following up and educating myself about your suggestions... these include reviews you have seen, product comparisons, suppliers, (particularly u.k. suppliers), forums, chatrooms, and anything else you think might be even remotely relevant as replies to this message...dont worry about overloading me with data, its likely to be several months before i start seriously buying stuff, and i want to get as genneed up as i can in the intervening time. dont worry if your suggestions seem under or over budget either, as my available cash at the time of my purchase could be way over or under the £4500 i mentioned in my original message. i do not know how to post weblinks myself... i run opera 6.05 as my default browser, so anyone who can educate a master musician but computer idiot with that, please help.
   phatfreddy, i really need to reply in detail to what you say, as you really seem to me to know what you are talking about, so i will post a message to you personally on this site... please watch out for it, and thank you.
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joe|PLS|mama

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RE:help me design my dream computer around mj
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2002, 04:00:24 am »

kandarohi,

I would recommend using Google to search the web about the different suggestions you want to follow up on.  You will get links to a lot more information than anyone could ever post for you here.  Google is the best!

Rob
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recklessabandon

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RE:help me design my dream computer around mj
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2002, 11:01:23 pm »

I dunno, I got ASUS CUVX4-DLS w/2 1GZ PIII's, a cable modem, a Maxtor SCSI drive for fast files and a bag of IBM 120GXP's with a box that lets me "swap" hard drives. A Creative Soundblaster live and cheap 4.1 speakers, DTT3500's I drool about. So I say put your money in your connection and STORAGE. Never load anything from Real Audio. RealOne is a virus.

Got 10,000|PLS| audio files? I just started recording litte bites that say "see also xxx,xxx,xxx" and nameing them the same. So when I look at Dire Straits, it shows and says "see also Chet Akins. . . . "
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PhatPhreddy

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RE:help me design my dream computer around mj
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2002, 11:50:13 pm »

For weblinks

Well of course there is here....

Hydrogen audio I already linked but is very good for upper end discussion on encoding but it is a lot of reading and understanding... I decided to skip a lot of that continual quest for the right / best encoder... worry about it... reripping.. listening test.. etc and just went for lossless... Maxtor have just announced 360GB hard drives with a RRP of 399 !! what these will be street within a year is anyones guess but .50c /GB is a logical guess !! If you are a musician and have any passion for analogue clarity it makes a lot of sense to go lossless for archival...

Come over to AVS and search on 'RME' 'M-Audio' 'Ego-Sys' etc...

For audio discussion I like Harmonic Discord and audio asylum (though they are total nutjobs one and all gotta love them) and if you are someone who has got creative hands some of the best projects in audio $/sound happen via DiY... Check out 'the bass list' and other diy speaker and audio tips... With luck when I return from a 6 week trek back to Europe I am going to attemt to build some push pull AKSA amps...

Much of what people are telling you is very right... When it comes to the PC part almost any 1000 US PC will be adequate before the soundcard choice, this is where it gets thorny... There are many levels of sound achieved but RME is strongly favored currently with people claiming equal or better than a Lexicon MC12B (at what 12k !!) but how you spend those funds is down to you.... Perhapsget a PC and equipe it with a good (around 150 - 200) soundcard and then see how usable and enjoyable it is...

Also you need to keep a lot of budget back for amp (plus pre if other sources are a consideration) speakers etc... I would spend more on these physical less depreciating items than I would on transient PC hardware....

Feel free to hit me up via email rather than shout it to the forum...
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Phreddy@PhatPhreddy.net ICQ# 168975535
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