Topic: HTPC: Building one! (Read 4873 times)

benn600 · « **on:** June 06, 2007, 01:51:29 am »

I am seriously considering building a HTPC. My uncle recently gave me a nice 720P 26" JVC LCD (and other equipment--he got new stuff). So I am now looking for a better system for watching higher quality content. At the moment, I'm using my Xbox, which is incredibly convenient, but I would like better quality--namely, DVI. I already have a PCI X1300 graphics card with DVI, hard drive, nice sound card, etc., so I really think I need these four components. I should point out that the processor, mobo, and memory are identical to the ones I ordered for my 16-drive RAID 6 server. They are cheap and that's my biggest concern.

Case, $115
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129014

Processor, $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103046

Mobo, $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128043

Memory, $65
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820161677

Does anyone know anything about that case? I need to know for sure that it will hold full-height PCI cards. I read a review which almost proves that it does, but not quite.

What are the issues with controlling this thing? The last thing I want is to use a keyboard/mouse! My sound card has a remote (the Creative Soundblaster Audigy2) and I suppose it would work fine. I'll obviously configure my Sony universal remote with it...everything has to be IR.

So on bootup, should I have it autologon and run MC in theater mode? Has anyone else gone through the setup process and achieved a complex, but intuitive and impressive setup? I like everything to be simple and clean (as much as possible).

benn600 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 06, 2007, 02:02:01 am »

I'm sorry. I always do this. I ordered the four components.

It is pretty obvious that it holds full size PCI cards because I compared the size with my own case and, relatively speaking, it looks correct. The total was: 318.39. I'll be adding decent sound card and video card...plus a small, no big deal, hard drive. Then I'll have DVI to go to the TV, sound for receiver, remote input, networking input. I won't hook up a keyboard/mouse and if I need to modify the system, I'll just use Logmein (free) to control it with my desktop system (in same room).

MrHaugen · « **Reply #2 on:** June 06, 2007, 10:25:33 am »

Why ask when you bought it 5 minutes later?

I do not know why anyone go for AMD this days. If you compare AMD and Intel Core 2 Duo CPU of the same price, the C2D wins. I't also preffered when postprocessing video as there are some ffdshow versions that have been specialy made for Intel processors.
Intel might be a little cheaper, but will not win in the long run. Also some of the cheap C2D CPU's like 6420 can be overclocked to almost 180% it's capacity. One I saw ran at almost 2GHz and was overclocket to 3.75 I think. On air cooling!
Just ordered some of the same components and hopefully will be able to reach up to that point.

Another thing to think about is your remote. You say you need IR, but that's not nesessarily all you need. Ilength, or angle you might consider a remote with radio frequenzy AND IR so you can still power up the reciever etc. Then you can also use it to control the music from other rooms etc. The mouse control on the remote should also be good. One you can move in all directions is a must imo.

newsposter · « **Reply #3 on:** June 06, 2007, 02:49:16 pm »

On the other paw, if you want something that works out of the box, first time....

http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9725948-7.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

benn600 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2007, 03:45:43 pm »

The discussion now continues to software issues. I am now mainly concerned with finding the software keys to make the system work. The key is not really the hardware--I could use any computer. The software is the key to the system and ease of use. I really need to start thinking about the software -- and remote --.

I decided on AMD because I could get the processor for $70. I can't really find an Intel processor for that--and I'm not buying a Celeron. Bad experiences from the past.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #5 on:** June 06, 2007, 04:03:06 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on June 06, 2007, 03:45:43 pm

The discussion now continues to software issues. I am now mainly concerned with finding the software keys to make the system work. The key is not really the hardware--I could use any computer. The software is the key to the system and ease of use. I really need to start thinking about the software -- and remote --.

Then go:

XP Pro
MC - for about everything
ffdshow - for post processing and ability to choose decoders
Good codecs - Like AC3, Descaler etc etc.
Girder - to automate everything you need
Netremote to control everything from a PDA or...
just buy a Philips TSU 7500 or something. I belive those are good remotes

And at last:
Image for Windows, for imaging and 1 button restore of working image, in case of problems.
A bit of batch file making to make restore of image come true without loosing any of your current data

Quote

I decided on AMD because I could get the processor for $70. I can't really find an Intel processor for that--and I'm not buying a Celeron. Bad experiences from the past.

Alright. No problem for me. Still think that it's not the best hardware in the long run. But your needs might be less than mine. Need to pay about twice to get a C2D I think. But for me it's not a question when I know they can overclock that well.

newsposter · « **Reply #6 on:** June 06, 2007, 04:23:08 pm »

be sure to look at the codec packs from www.codecguide.com

benn600 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 07, 2007, 09:31:03 pm »

Okay, so now I have the AMD $70 chip and $70 motherboard and I upgraded the second set to a $115 Core 2 Duo and $125 motherboard. So now which combo should go in my server and which should I use in my HTPC? I'm thinking the AMD is slower so it should be in the HTPC.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #8 on:** June 08, 2007, 12:24:12 am »

It all depends what you are going to use it for....

If you want to use the media center for post processing as well, I would recommend the Intel.
At least if you can get the hold of software that are optimized for it.

If you are using the other computer for demanding tasks like video editing or gaming, and you like that better than making video quality better on your HTPC, then use the Intel for your other computer.

benn600 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 08, 2007, 07:13:11 pm »

All I really want MC to do on my HTPC is just provide me the ability to play my music, podcasts, images, and DVDs. I am not going to worry about all these special filters and post processing yet. It's only 720p (1280x768) and I've got a lot of other worries before I worry about maximizing image quality.

Yesterday, I went through the entire process of migrating to my new server in my mind. I will literally spend 1-2 solid weeks backing up, mechanically setting up (18 hard drives!--mobo, etc.), restoring, re-ripping DVDs I couldn't fit on backup...it's a long process.

But of course, I want to work on the HTPC a little bit to. Really all I need is an infrared keyboard. The reason for this is that I can then use Macro Express to make any key do ANYTHING--including delete podcasts from MC through a complicated macro--and all of the keys would work with my Sony universal remote. I'll go see if I can find one. I have even thought an IR keyboard (maybe mouse) would be good for big computer labs because there would be no interference between stations.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #10 on:** June 09, 2007, 09:52:38 am »

Looks like you got a solid job ahead of you.

When it comes to keyboard I would recommend eiter bluetooth or RF keyboard so the signals will not be iterrupted no mather what. I think this one is a beauty: http://techgage.com/article/logitech_dinovo_edge/. Logitech diNovo Edge also includes a mouse wich work really good. It's a shame it's so friggin expensive!

Good luck with your project!

benn600 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 09, 2007, 08:36:07 pm »

My issue is that I really need IR so I can use my remote. Not sure but would anyone want to have to use a full (or even smaller) keyboard to control their HTPC? It will be a battle finding what I'm looking for for a reasonable price.

Like I said, all I want is an IR receiver with an IR transmitter...10-20 buttons...and software on the PC to make each button do ANYTHING. Essentially, button 1,2,3,4 should be arrow keys....etc.

Doesn't that seem like the best solution for any HTPC? Then, users can configure the remote to literally work with anything. Even imagine a 2-4 position switch at the top to allow completely new configurations for various programs.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #12 on:** June 10, 2007, 06:24:39 am »

That is my goal too. Just a remote. Preferrably a beautifull programmable with touch screen that uses WiFi connection to my HTPC, and IR for a few of my other components. I'm just going to buy that keyboard for those special ocations when I'm playing game like Heroes of Might and Magic, and similar wich you really have to have a mouse and prefferably a keyboard. And for configuration offcourse.
Even if the remote uses RF og bluetooth, they often come with IR as well. You can also buy a RF to IR extender so you can control all the IR only equipment too. This all depends how far you are away from your setup, and if the path is ever blocked.
In your scenario it might cost more than it tastes.

benn600 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 10, 2007, 09:31:44 am »

My uncle showed me this AA/AAA battery IR to RF converter device. We can't figure out the brand name or where to buy more of them. You put the battery in your IR remote and it "somehow...lol" picks up the IR signal that was transmitted and then sends it to its receiver via RF.

So what exactly remotes are available? Please provide links to your favorite shopping store with the items. I still cannot find any decent ones. They have to be reasonable as far as working with other things.

Why can't my Soundblaster Audigy2 <random product enhancements here> remote work well? It kind of works! It's strange and I'm not quite sure what I have to do to get it to work.

But I am tempted to want to leave that good sound card in my workstation and then use onboard audio for my HTPC since at the moment, I don't have an amazing receiver with Dolby ...etc. It's quite a few years old.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #14 on:** June 10, 2007, 12:34:41 pm »

You can probably find plenty of converters. Google is your friend. The most usefull, in my opinion, is the RF to IR converters though. Then you can have a RF remote to be used anywhere. In other rooms, from your garden etc. You would need to place the converter(s) in a positions so the IR beam hits all your equipement though.

There's alot of possibilities when it comes to remote controls. You want LCD screen or not, a all directional mouse control or only up/down and left/right control. It is also nice with 2 way signaling so you can get coverart and playing now info etc. But that means getting a WiFi remote or possibly a bluetooth. With the WiFi they tend to be expensive.
If I were you, I'd go to remotecentral.com and look and ask around. They would know more than me.

The last time I bought a remote was a Philips TSU 7000. An expensive but really nice remote. I got ripped off though

After that I have not been thinking much more of remotes, untill I saw this baby:
http://www.gyration.com/en-US/OEMProduct.html. I'll test out the Gyration around this summer. Looking forvard to test the mouse control. It's not very expensive either, and got RF signaling.

As far as the Audigy2 remote, I have no ide. Never tried it.
What sound card you use is up to you. I'll go for a Creative SB X-Fi my self. After the drivers have gotten better that is.
I would think that most soundcards beat the onboard versions, even if you have a older reciever. But it's up to you where you want the good sound. You'll probably not notice much difference anyway.

benn600 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 12, 2007, 08:51:25 am »

I'm on the new HTPC now. Unfortunately, I'm having a lot of driver problems. The ATI driver kept crashing when I tried to open the config setting. So I reinstalled. Then the latest Creative Soundblaster driver doesn't seem to support the remote, so I installed the one on the CD. That kept crashing everytime I boot. So I'm uninstalling it. Then I'll reboot and reinstall.

The resolution is also confusing. The LCD is supposed to be 1280x768 but it keeps overscanning. At the moment I have it set to 1280x720 and then there are black bars at the top and bottom. All I want is for it to display a full, edge to edge picture! Is that possible? The computer automatically senses and sets to 1080p, surprisingly enough. Then it doesn't look good and overscans even more.

Once I get the remote working, I'll see if it will do what I need. MC simply FLIES on this computer. I've got to figure out ... probably Vista that slowed it down on my main workstation! lol. What a waste of ~$160...at least I've tried Vista, though.

What about power management? For other HTPC owners--like the readymade, really expensive ones...what do you do? Leave it on? Sleep? How do you wake it up? I don't want to waste a ton of power. I ordered a Kill A Watt and that will make it easier to check the wattage on devices like this to see if I need to worry about leaving them on.

All in all, MC is great for theater view! One request would be an option to add a Delete item to the drop down menu on each item. Ideally it would also allow users to enter a 4 digit PIN. So, user would select Delete and then the PIN box would come up, overlay on top. This would keep accidental deletions down and stop random visitors from doing so.

dcwebman · « **Reply #16 on:** June 15, 2007, 07:36:19 am »

Benn, so in the past you've used the Dlink DSM-320, Xbox, probably some others, and are now on a HTPC. Is this in your opinion, the best and only way to go? I've got most parts for a system and just need to get time and a little more money for other parts to build one.

benn600 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 15, 2007, 10:00:13 am »

It is absolutely fabulous. I should put together a nice little site detailing my experiences with everything. With MC, it really is incredible. The biggest concern is that you find a useful remote...which I did in fact find, for under $35. It can be customized to literally make each button simply "push keys"....with more advanced settings as well.

I used a PCI X1300 graphics card I had laying around...Soundblaster Audigy2 <random letters/etc> I had laying around...random hard drive...

Overall, it was a steal. I don't think you need to spend $1000. In my case, the mobo/cpu/memory was right around $200. Then $100 for a very nice Antec case (made for a theater appearance) $35 remote.

$335. Oh, and Media Center's cost: $40 (lol). I'm assuming that is irrelevant since anyone wanting a HTPC already has a desktop with MC.

I think that's all I needed. I suppose you could add $4,000 for a 7TB server. I got all the components today and am currently backing all my data up to temporary hard drives.

The TV I got given to me is a 26" JVC 1280x768 but I'm having trouble with the resolution working correctly. Everything I've tried either overscans and/or leaves borders...and the pixels don't line up perfectly. Another issue I miss is the ability to delete files from the interface. I like to delete podcast files when I'm done viewing them so I don't view them again.

I made up a great 17-button key for all the vital keyboard shortcuts in theater view. I could post the assignments I used. I can pretty much do anything I need from the remote now. I have noticed MC crash a few isolated times so I may find something that will monitor when the program closes so it can start it up again. I also have MC in the startup folder and set to go to theater view. So, to start it, I still have to push the power button...and push the power button to shut down (just once to soft shut down).

VERY happy with my new HTPC so far.

newsposter · « **Reply #18 on:** June 15, 2007, 10:47:49 am »

Belkin also makes a nice wireless keyboard, the Media Pilot.

The Media Pilot is also a programmable IR remote control.

One could also use a 'cheap' 1st gen tablet PC or even a much older Fujitsu tablet (from pre-tablet PC days) as a tote-able remote control unit and/or terminal/display for the HTPC. NetRemote v2 is one piece of software that does this.

Just to an ebay search for 'fujitsu tablet' to see what's available out there. You can get a reasonably fast machine for under $500 which is a great price when comparing to the top-of-the-line Prontos.

dcwebman · « **Reply #19 on:** June 15, 2007, 04:00:51 pm »

Thanks for the info. I guess I might be different than others in the HTPC market. I have no desire to rip my DVD's and play them through the computer. I have a DVD player that I just have to insert the DVD in. Besides, it's sad, but I hardly watch my DVD's more than once anyway. Renting online is the way to go for me.

I just need to use MC for everything else: audio, images, podcasts, etc. So unless I'm wrong, I don't really need the fastest system out there with the biggest hard drive. I have a "server" already running on my network so I should be able to just pull from that nicely. Again, that's with the assumption that I'm not doing video. But then again, it would be nice occasionally to take something I taped from my HD DVRs and have it saved to DVD. ? I have a dedicated video/audio editing computer but it's too big to put near my entertainment center.

Here's what I have so far. It would be nice to get that final piece of the puzzle using MC.
http://www.pix01.com/gallery/021ACCF1-DB8C-4FAD-B5FB-6A23F5F3DD3C/New_Apartment/image5.jpg

benn600 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 15, 2007, 07:47:10 pm »

The good news is that for standard definition content and lower, you really only need so much power and then that's it. That is one reason I elected for a $70 AMD processor instead of the more expensive $115 Core 2 Duo.

It really has all the power I need. I guess to do a better test I should try a 720p or 1080p video file...which I have plenty of. That would allow me to better test the speed of it.

But the MC interface is also VERY important. You want a good video card (I think that's important) and obviously processor/memory. That way, you will get a smoother, faster theater view. It would be neat to see how much cheaper you can get it. Remember that I have a ~$100 sound card and ~$130 video card...that I purchased earlier. It helps to have higher end stuff laying around so when I finally build the HTPC, I have less of an instant charge.

It was especially helpful because I'm building my server at the same time--and costs really add up.

The next step is to work on adding other features to my HTPC. Obviously, MC covers the vast majority of the things you want on a HOME THEATER pc. I like the ability to add web sites to MC. You can add things like your favorite weather site, security camera page, etc. It's best for read-only sites because it's tough to control it without a keyboard. The goal is to get everything working with just a remote--which is how my Xbox was. I also like replacing my Xbox with this HTPC because I can use my Xbox in another house location. The Xbox is good for SDef TVs but my nice 720P LCD deserves a nice, hi def, DVI signal.

Adam8282 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 22, 2007, 10:09:14 am »

I recommend you to buy newest Athlon X2 BE2350. And for case I recommend Aopen H360a 300W PSU, only $60, but really quiet and cool.

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Author Topic: HTPC: Building one! (Read 4873 times)