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[jmone]

My bugbear with my HTPC setup is that I cannot completely eliminate Video Jitter, yet a $50 CE device has no problems.  The effect is particularly noticeable when watching TV (or a TV recording) where there is a scrolling horizontal “ticker” running along the bottom – its jerky not smooth.  The result is that watching sport (or anything with horizontal movement) just looks odd.  Even with all my playing around all I seem to be able to do is effect the amount of "jerkiness" but have not managed to eliminate it.

So...for those that have reached Stutter Free Nivarna I'd love to know what combo you use to get completely fluid Video, my current setup is:

• PentD, 1GB RAM, WinXP SP2
• nVidia 7600GS (upgraded from a 6200TC but this did not help) – currently using 160.03 drivers @ 720p/50 (note: 1080i looks worse for me, and 50Hz as I’m in a PAL Country)
  DVICO DVB-T Plus TV Tuner Card
• DVI Out (DVI-HDMI on a Yami Amp then HDMI to a Hitachi Plasma)
• CODECS:  The best results for minimising stuttering I've tried so far is the DScaler5 (but I've tried a few)
• Settings: I’ve tried all sorts of combo’s and settings.  Out of interest the stuttering is eliminated using DScaler5 if I force WEAVE over BOB, but moving text / edges when panning looks poor as you see both fields broken.

Thanks
Nathan

[kamiller42]

When I view HDTV OTA video from my Hauppauge 1600, it stutters. If I watch in Hauppauge's viewer, no problem. I would like to use Media Center for video watching.

My System:
AMD X2 4200+
7800GT
2 Gig RAM
Hauppuage WinTV-PVR 1600

[raym]

As you know, I have this problem too using totally different hardware. What we do have in common though is the 50Hz thing so there may still be something in that. Perhaps the video drivers just aren't handling this properly (even though they say they are!).

However, one of my pc's is a crappy old P4 with an old ATI 9200 (AGPx4) video card and I have always got absolutely smoothe playback with this thing. The main difference between this setup and my other more modern (and expensive) PC like yours is that I'm using s-video out to a CRT TV. Have you tried experimenting with using s-video or component out? Component would be better as s-video is not a HD output. What about using straight VGA? Does your plasma TV have a D-Sub input?

Did that nVidia driver patch thingy work?: http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/knowledgebase/entry/17/54/

Finally, codecs have no doubt got a lot to do with this problem but like you, I have honestly tried them all. The best results for me are using the PowerDVD Cyberlink ones - v7 I think.

Anyway, I'm on a quest to resolve this problem once and for all too. I've spent many a sleepless night browsing forums and what-not and speaking to people with similar issues but still with all my experimentation, nothing has worked...

[kamiller42]

I should have mentioned my OS. Windows XP Sp2. I should also mention SnapStream's BeyondTV does not have this problem either. My PC has two 19" monitors connected via VGA.

I would hate to downgrade my nVidia drivers for one program. I like performance, especially in games.

[jmone]

Hi Ralf - gonna give it a red hot go with all options this w'end - just collecting others experience and ideas to try to narrow down the 1,000's of possible combinations....

[ThoBar]

This seems counter inutuitive I know, but forcing NTSC output to my supposedly PAL TV, provides not only stutter free, but flicker free (virtually) video.

I have a Panasonic WS CRT TV, and quite by accident discovered this setting works for me.

I'm kind of assuming that either my vidcard (Radeon 9650) doesnt do PAL properly or the TV only pretends it does PAL... or something.

Anyhoo, just thought I'd mention it.

C.

PS. FWIW, P1.7GHz, Radeon 9650, 512MB.

[jmone]

This seems counter inutuitive I know, but forcing NTSC output to my supposedly PAL TV, provides not only stutter free, but flicker free (virtually) video.

I have a Panasonic WS CRT TV, and quite by accident discovered this setting works for me.

I'm kind of assuming that either my vidcard (Radeon 9650) doesnt do PAL properly or the TV only pretends it does PAL... or something.

Anyhoo, just thought I'd mention it.

C.

PS. FWIW, P1.7GHz, Radeon 9650, 512MB.

Just tied that and the results are:
- 720p/50 = constant regular jitter (like it breaks a single stutter into 25/ps jitter)
- 720p/60 = smooth followed by a stutter (like it saves all the jitter up for one stutter each second)

[skeeterfood]

Have you tried ReClock?  It's a bit of VooDoo that tries to sync up your audio clock to your video clock, since I believe everything before Vista uses the audio clock as the control when displaying videos, though I could be wrong.

You can find the latest version here.

A quick set of picture instructions on configuration is here.

Basically you want to set the rate to a number that evenly divides into your screen refresh rate.  Do you know what the actual refresh rate of your Plasma is?

Finally, you have to configure MC to use ReClock as the audio renderer in MC:
Tools->Options->DirectShow Playback->Audio Renderer

When you play a video in MC you should get a little stopwatch icon in your System tray.  If it's set up and working properly it should eventually stop blinking yellow and turn green when it syncs up the audio and video clocks.

I can't claim to understand exactly what it does, but I don't notice any stuttering on my setup.  Of course I'm in the US using a 60Hz display.

-John

[Yaobing]

When I view HDTV OTA video from my Hauppauge 1600, it stutters. If I watch in Hauppauge's viewer, no problem. I would like to use Media Center for video watching.

My System:
AMD X2 4200+
7800GT
2 Gig RAM
Hauppuage WinTV-PVR 1600

Have you specified a video decoder to use in TV configuration? Tried different decoders?

[glynor]

It depends what you mean by Stutter (which I think is actually more accurately called Jitter).  In my HTPC, I have:

• AMD Opteron 165 (dual-core) @ 2.5 GHz
• 2 GB DDR RAM (2x 1GB)
• Gigabyte nVidia N-Force 3 Ultra based motherboard (socket 939 with AGP)
• High-performance PATA 320 GB Recording Drive w/ 16MB Cache (regularly defragged and formatted with the larger block size as recommended by Snapstream) -- SEPARATE FROM SYSTEM DRIVE
  
• Sapphire ATI Theater 550 Pro Capture Card
• Anti-Virus applications disabled on ALL recording locations! (This can lead to all kinds of performance issues for live video).
• ATI X800XT 512MB AGP All-in-Wonder Video Card connected to a Panasonic NTSC Standard Def TV via S-Video Out

I don't have any stutter to speak of with live TV (unless you are way more sensitive to it than I am), with BeyondTV or with MC (last I tried MC).  I generally use BTV for live TV and recordings though (please give me a EPG and external set-top box control via USB-UIRT MC) so I haven't checked it in a while though...  BeyondTV and MC's output looked relatively identical on my TV, other than a color shift in MC.  For decoding I was just using the built-in Snapstream decoder for BTV and whatever CCCP uses by default (probably the Gabest MPEG-2 decoder) for MC.

I would not say that fast motion is quite as "perfect" as watching the feed off of my digital cable box directly on the TV, but it is very close.  I'd put most of the quality differences down to the capture card's capabilities, and to interlacing/de-interlacing issues in the computer software.  It's very hard to tell the difference between the two images unless you flip back and forth and inspect it carefully for differences.

I should mention that I tried at one point using my C drive (which is basically an identical Seagate 250GB drive) for an "overflow" recording location (if the main 320GB drive was full) and I had all KINDS of performance issues, including horrible stutter and occasional freezes in the video.  I decided that trying to use the system drive, even with 2GB RAM, was too much to ask.

[jmone]

Glynor - your right, I've renamed the thread removing "Jitter" not "Stutter".  Pending on the Codec and Deinterlacing being used, using DScaler for example it appears as either a Jitter on EVERY Frame (say when playing 50i material over 720p/25) or it seems to play smoothly with the Jitter being "collected up" for one Stutter at the end of each second (playing 50i material over 720p/30).  I get the second problem of having to "find" 5 extra frames per second with the mismatched timing of playing PAL material over NTSC, but.....

Yaobing - Yup tried the lot at one time or another and your DScaler5 suggestions seems the best so far.

Skeeterfood - Yup got reclock on the system that I enable/disable to see its effect (for me it normally just introduces a Audio Time Lag on OTA DVB-T stuff but not when playingback video files).

In General, I am now certainly sensitive to it the Jitter and like an itch you can not scratch it is getting really annoying.  In my defence of my own "Jitter Phobia" others have commented on when watching DVB-T Live Sport that it looks "funny" and we change to a normal Cable Box. 

My guess is that it is a combination of HDTV Standards (Resolutions / Frame Rate) selection, nVidia's Drivers, Codecs, and Connection Type.  Just trying to narrow down the Permutations!!!!

Thanks
Nathan

[kamiller42]

Have you specified a video decoder to use in TV configuration? Tried different decoders?

Yes, here are my results on my "Not Good" to "Horrible" scale.

PowerDVD 7 - Horrible.
HCW MPEG-2 Decoder - Not good.
Nero Video Decoder - Bad.
Nero DVD Decoder - Not good.
MainConcept MPEG Video Decoder - Bad.
Ulead MPEG Video Decoder - Horrible.
Nero Video Decoder HD - Horrible.

[jmone]

Had a good play with the settings but really no further (just confirmed my position):
1) nVidia Drivers - Tried some more by all similar (Ralf the version you gave me a link to would not install "no compatible device" found)
2) CODECS - These made the biggest difference with the best still DScaler5 and nVidia Pure Video
3) Connection Type - DVI was the best (S-Video had too much noise especially in Black, and over Component the connection would reset all the time - a prob I'd seem with nVidia before)

I'm now thinking (slap me) of upgrading my HTPC box to Vista.  The same TV Recoding shows less jitter on my main Vista PC (not connected to the TV, so may have to drag it over....).  The Vista Microsoft MPEG-2 Video Decoder seems very smooth - any ideas if you can get it for XP?

Thanks
Nathan.

[jmone]

What am I thinking, I've just put the Vista Ultimate disk into my HTPC.....I just know this is not going to go welllllll

[glynor]

What am I thinking, I've just put the Vista Ultimate disk into my HTPC.....I just know this is not going to go welllllll

* glynor winces...

Good luck.  I think you'll need it. 

[raym]

Nathan, when you connect your HTPC (the one with the problem) to a COMPUTER MONITOR @50Hz, what happens? Does the Jitter go away? It did in my case. I've only ever experienced this issue when moving to my widescreen LCD TV. Ironically, using a computer monitor or CRT TV has always looked perfect in this respect. Therefore, I still think the problem lies in the connection type, and most importantly, what your display will support in terms of video timings etc.

[jmone]

Ralf I agree - but I think it is how the Video Drivers handle it all:  Here are my results so far after the Vista Upgrade:
1) Can Now run 1080i over 720p...all 1080i tearing is gone - 
2) 1080i/25 = Still get Jitter but it seems to be less abrupt (also still playing with CODEC combos_
3) 1080i/30 = Jitter is reduceded but you get a funning vertical wave pattern on straight lines that sort of makes you see sick (very odd)

The main problems is that JRMC12 is now unstable, lots of "Not Responding" errors etc especially with Theater View.....(even gone back to an earlier Beta...and the problem remains).  More playing no doubt

Thanks
Nathan

[jmone]

Uggg - now doing a clean Vista install

[jmone]

* glynor winces...

Good luck.  I think you'll need it. 

Things have not gone well....

[jmone]

OK things have got better now that I've got all the bits and pieces for Vista installed.  My current settings are pretty good for reducing the Jitter:
- Vista Ultimate with Aero on (note: with Aero off (eg Std, Classic etc), the jitter is as bad as with XP)
- nVidia's latest drivers (new this month)
- 720p/50:  These produce the best results and even with DVB-T it looks pretty good.  The jitter has been reduced to a slight but steady state (so no big jumps).  No tearing  .  The options are 50/59/60 hz with the nVidia Drivers 
- 1080i/25:  These are alot better than with XP with no Tearing but the jitter is worse than with 720p.  The options are 25/29/30 hz with the nVidia Drivers but I had frame rate problems playing DV material.
- MC12 Settings: 2% Overscan and 80% for Border Size in 720p (or 130% with 1080i) in T'View using the modified Blue Too skin
- Codecs: The new (and free) Microsoft MPEG Decoder is really good (about the same as the nVidia Pure Video and better than the DScaler 5).  Still using the Nero Splitter to get audio from muxed MPG/DTS files.
- Video Renderer:  There is also a new "Advanced Video Renderer (Vista Only)" option in DVD Playback (but no other media types) that I've not really played with yet)

More playing required but so far so good!
Nathan