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[bcbc]

Hello again--

After lurking about and using MJ for the 30 days gratis and then using the free version for a while I finally took the plunge today. I'm licensed, I guess.

I read the FAQ a couple of times before I signed up and didn't really get it, nor did I give it much attention. I read it several times today both on screen and off and still didn't get it.

Having hung around here for a while it has been my impression that the JRiver people take their product very seriously and are dedicated to taking care of their customers. With that in mind I had no qualms whatsoever about laying out 25 bucks for a product that seems worth every penny of that.

Having said that, after a close reading of the FAQ, I began to wonder what was going on here. The text is so confusing and contradictory I began to wonder what I had actually bought. Worse yet the language seems to be an intentional obfuscation.

The "More Details" part of the FAQ begins with the statement that I will "receive a permanent registration code." The terms "license," "registration," "key," "install," and "restore," are used without definition or clarification.

It is not until Q # 15 in the FAQ that it is finally stated that one is limited to six restores per year. And furthermore what is a restore? If I uninstall my old version to replace it with one of your frequent updates, is that a restore?

I know you guys are first class. You've got a great product, superb service and you're decent people. You need to clear up the language in the FAQ so people know exactly what they're getting and what the terms and conditions are in plain English.

[phatrabt]

Well, I can tell you one thing that you've asked...  if you update (either via "Check for Updates" OR DL'ing the update and installing) it IS NOT charged as a restore.  The ONLY time it is charged as a restore is when:

1.  You re-format and re-install your OS.  You will have to restore then.
2.  You install on another computer.  If you're going to go this route you should download the restore file and do all your installing withing 2 weeks.

Now, for a way to avoid ALL this hassle, listen up:

If you have a backup hard drive, get yourself a copy of Norton Ghost and use it!  I have an image on my drive that I consider the base image.  This image is a "base" that I use for the system.  I made my image after updating and registering everything and applying all the MS updates.  Now while this may mean that if\when I need to image the drive again my stuff will be a little outdated, it does mean that everything still stays registered!  That's right, I NEVER have to touch my resores unless something REALLY funny happens...  This process comes in handy not just for MJ, but for PC health and cleanliness in general.  (Saves on the install time like you wouldn't believe.)  Maybe this helps, maybe not...  If you have any more questions just let everyone know!

phatrabt

[zevele]

If i understand:

I make a clean install of Windows,updates,TWEAKS.

I install my softwares,the free ones and the ones with a key-8 of them-

I install the plug-ins.

When i fell i have my computer in his 'basic state' according to my needs.i use Gost to make a data cd of it?

I want to clean my mess.

I format my drive and ,instead of putting the Windows disc i use the ghost disc,i just type D:\ghost

...... and i get my machine back as when i saved my configuration?

If yes to all of it,how much coast Ghost?

[phatrabt]

Zevele:
You are correct!  The only thing is the size of the image.  Mine usually is around 1.5 Gig, MUCH to large to fit on a CD.  That's why I use a second hard drive.  As for cost,  you might try finding Norton Ghost on certain unnamed services...  easier and cheaper that way.  If you have any other ?'s please let me know!

phatrabt

[gateley]

Hi bcbc,

I'm open to suggestions if you'd like to take a whack. I think the confusion comes because you are expecting it to be exactly like everyone else's licensing scheme and it isn't.

We have a "registration code": a long string of text that you can keep for ever in your mailbox and whenever you need a new license, you can use that. But the registration code itself is not verified in the program, so instead we use:

An "installation key". You get this when you purchase or when you restore. It's actually a small file containing relevant details.

We struggled over decent terminology for the above two pieces, and never really were happy with the results. Suggestions?

Somewhere in the FAQ it should say what a restore is (I know I put it in there at some point). I'll check on monday to make sure, but for now, a restore ONLY happens when you go to the restore page and enter your registration code.

Thanks (and especially thanks for suggestions).

j

[zevele]

phatrabt

I have 4 hard drives,so i can put the image on one of the 3 last drives.

In this case ,after reformat,when you get A:\

I just type 'the image adress'?

A:\D:\ norton image\exe.setup

May have Ghost on a disc,will have a look when back home

[bcbc]

phatrabt--

Thanks for your suggestion re Norton Ghost. You've hit on a topic that I've been trying to get a grip on for a while. How to set up a second hard drive as a "mirror" backup?

Now I have only one HD--40 GB IBM. I'm planning to add a second drive--a Western Digital 120 GB--make that the boot drive, then eventually replace the IBM with another WD 120 GB as the backup. I read somewhere recently that the WD drives are more reliable.

I would appreciate greatly your suggestions or referral to a source that discusses all the options--RAID, IDE vs. external HD, Norton Ghost, all the "How-To's," etc. Here's my current system:

CPU: Intel Pentium 4 1702 MHz MMX
Memory: Total - 261 MB, Free - 88 MB
OS: Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1  (Build 2600)
MOBO: Gigabyte GA-81RX

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2600.0000
ComCtl32.dll: 6.00.2600.0000
Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2600.0000
Shell32.dll: 6.00.2600.0000
wnaspi32.dll: 4.57 (1008) , ASPI for Win32 (95/NT) DLL, Copyright © 1989-1997 Adaptec, Inc.
Aspi32.sys: 4.57 (1008)

Thanks again...
bc

[phatrabt]

Ok, here's how it works:

1.  You create a boot disk from inside Ghost.  It will make the boot disk for you, although you might have to change a few settings depending on your system.

2.  Boot to this disk.  You then will create the image (Local-->Disk-->To Image).  Follow the prompts and make sure the HD where you're going to store the image is formatted as FAT32, because DOS can't read NTFS formatted partitions.  Ghost will prompt you for the filename and location, so select it here.

3.  After imaging, exit Ghost and reboot back to your OS.

4.  To re-image, boot to the Ghost boot disk.  Select Local-->Disk-->From Image and follow the prompts.

5.  Ghost will put the image that you made back on the drive, erasing all that was on there before.

6.  When complete, restart your computer back to the OS.

I know it may sound long and complicated, but it's REALLY not!  As for the other concepts, like RAID and such, I know how they work but I don't use them.  Maybe someone else can help with that part.  If there are any other questions please let me know!

phatrabt

[bcbc]

gateley--

I took the bait. You guys have an engaging way of getting your customers to work for you.

I rewrote the Overview intro to the FAQ adding definitions of the terms: "License;" "Registration Code;" "Installation Key;" and "Restores."

I didn't want to post it here since my understanding of this stuff may yet differ from JRiver's. No point in adding to any lingering confusion.

If you'd like a draft of the copy send me an e-mail with an address. I'll send it to you. Gratis.

bc

[Nick LeFave]

An "installation key". You get this when you purchase or when you restore. It's actually a small file containing relevant details.

gateley

I don't remember getting an installation key. I have restored 3 times I think. What is frustrating is I don't have a way to check. Like today, I installed mediajukebox on a laptop that work gave me to use (yeah! work more now and more often). I had to use web restore. After doing the web restore, I saw 3 screens that said license installed separately. I tried using a license key I got less than two weeks ago and backed off to floppy, but it wouldn't work. How can someone get some of their restores back if they make an honest error? I too think the program is top rate, but I am also feeling like I am being punished for being a paying customer with the licensing format (though, I do realize that you need to protect your product from piracy).

[Vlad]

bcbc, zevele et al,

here's a great guide to using Ghost.  Hope it helps.

[BigMike]

Like I have been saying for months and like phatrabt is saying now in so many words, Norton GHOST is a program that NOBODY should be without. It will save your butt time and time again. It's darn near fool proof. It has never failed me yet. It's so rediculously simple to use, it almost hurts. After you install GHOST, copy the GHOSTPE file to a directory on your root drive. Name the directory GHOST, or something simple to remember. GHOSTPE is actually the only file needed to use ghost for backup and restore. Reboot into DOS mode, change to the GHOST directly, type GHOSTPE, and your in business. Just follow the prompts to have ghost make an image (backup) of your main drive, and save the image to another partition or different drive. Restoring your backup is even simpler. Boot into dos, go into ghostpe, and tell it to restore partition from image. You can save multiple backups. One word of advice - go into the GHOSTPE setup menu, and tell it to auto-name ghost files, if you are backing up over 2 gigs. The reason is that DOS has a 2 gig (or something close to that) limit on file size. So ghost will make new a new file each time the 2 gig limit is reached. By turning on the auto naming function, GHOST will not prompt you to type in a name for each file it makes during backup. The same thing holds true for restore. With auto on, GHOST will not prompt you to type in the name of the next file. It will just find it and finish the restore sequence. That's all I got, later guys!

[phelt]

I'd like to pitch in a vote against Ghost and some further thoughts.

My choice for basic disk imaging/cloning is NovaStor Instant Recovery. It boots from the product CD into a GUI with mouse support and does not have DOS limitations. It also supports a ton of devices, which leads me to my next thought...

Cloning or backing up to another internal HD doesn't allow for major negative events (theft, fire, force majeure, etc). I like to back up to Iomega Peerless drives over firewire. Pricy, but reasonably fast and certainly better than a pile of CD's. Easy to grab in a hurry.

Last, I backup files (music, artwork, invoices, whatever) separately, in addition to drive images. It makes the files portable, and a drive image may not work on a new machine due to XP activation, motherboard configuration, etc.

[gateley]

bcbc - Thanks very much, send it to gateley @ jriver.com please.

Nick - you can check the number of restores you have available by going to the restore page, and clicking on the button to send you email reminding you. This email has the number of restores available. It does NOT cost a restore to do it. JRiver may help out users who restore too many times, but no promises.

j

[Nick LeFave]

Nick - you can check the number of restores you have available by going to the restore page, and clicking on the button to send you email reminding you. This email has the number of restores available. It does NOT cost a restore to do it. JRiver may help out users who restore too many times, but no promises.

j

Thanks for pointing me to the right place. I feel better now, have 4 restores left.

[BigMike]

I'd like to pitch in a vote against Ghost and some further thoughts.
My choice for basic disk imaging/cloning is NovaStor Instant Recovery. It boots from the product CD into a GUI with mouse support and does not have DOS limitations. It also supports a ton of devices, which leads me to my next thought...

Cloning or backing up to another internal HD doesn't allow for major negative events (theft, fire, force majeure, etc).

BigMike:

Norton Ghost has a GUI, and it can also burn and spawn backups across multiple CDs and other media. One of the reasons GHOST is so reliable is because it makes backups outside of windows, where they should be made, not from within windows while processes are running which can, and often do,  cause errors during backups. I learned this the hard way. The mouse is not an issue for me, since GHOST is so simple to use, it only takes a few keystrokes to backup or restore. Ghost also includes a windows explorer program that lets you open your ghost backups and extract files, plus other usefull utilities. I've tried a lot of backup programs over the years, but this is by far the most reliable I have found. I'm sure there are lots of others out there that are good also, but like my daddy used to say, if something works, don't fix it.

[Cookie]

Is there really no way that I can backup my license / key whatever, so I can reinstall MJ without connecting to the web (& without using ghost?)
I've got >>5 Gig of stuff on my laptop & really ain't interested in either ghosting the lot or wiping it so I can backkup a clean image with MJ installed.!!??

Hopefully ...

DMc

[gateley]

Sorry, there is no (legitimate) way.

j