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Author Topic: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)  (Read 6764 times)

glynor

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OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« on: January 15, 2008, 10:53:06 am »

Arstechnica is covering the Macworld Keynote address live.... If you're curious to see what teh Steve announces with the old One More ThingTM, here's the details...

The live "feed" (with pictures) will be posted here, updated as it goes: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080115-macworld-ars-macworld-2008-keynote-live-on-ars.html

If you really want to watch it unfold, the best thing is to fire up an IRC client and connect to: irc.arstechnica.com and then join #mwsf

They essentially live post the entire event there (sans pictures of course).  However, I strongly suggest that you do it now, because the irc server always fills up and is impossible to get onto.

More details here (including easy ways to connect to the IRC feed): http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080114-ars-at-macworld-2008-keynote-coverage-and-more.html

Engadget is also live-blogging it, here: http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/live-from-macworld-2008-steve-jobs-keynote/
Their coverage is usually pretty good.

And lastly, MacRumorsLive has a cool live-blogging feed (which doesn't require you to constantly hit refresh): http://www.macrumorslive.com/

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glynor

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2008, 12:37:48 pm »

Just figured I'd give you quick highlights...

  • Time Capsule.  Looks (and works) just like an Airport Extreme (the Apple Wireless base station) but includes a 500GB or 1TB hard drive, and can automatically back up all systems on your network via a wireless or wired connection.  Much like a NAS with built-in backup capabilities combined with a wireless router, and then apple-fied.
  • $299 for 500GB and $499 for 1TB.

  • iPhone software upgrade -- includes a bunch of new little features.  Can customize home screen (much like rearranging Dashboard on OSX)
  • iPod Touch -- upgraded software, but not free, $20 through iTunes.  Now includes all applications in iPhone (except telephone obviously), including email, maps, stocks, weather, etc...
  • SDK in February for 3rd Party Apps

  • Movie Rentals in iTunes Store.  $2.99 for library releases, $3.99 for new releases.
  • All major studios.  Must start watching within 30 days, once you start watching you have 24 hours to finish it.  Can be transferred from computer to computer, to iPod, and "all over the place" (no details given immediately on what limitations it has).  Appears to be streaming, rather than progressive download, though I'm not sure here.
  • Also includes HD content for $1 extra.  100 HD movies available at launch, 1000 titles in SD.
  • All new releases from major studios will be made available within 30 days of DVD purchase release.
  • New Apple TV 2.0 @ $229 (old was $299).  Fancier.  Rent movies directly with Apple TV, buy from iTunes Store directly, YouTube access, Flickr integration, Podcasts.  No Computer required (unlike the old system).  All old Apple TVs get the software update free of charge (available in 2 weeks).  Unclear if new ones have any new hardware or are simply software upgraded (though it seems like it is software only).
  • iTunes 7.6 available now includes these (and iPhone) features -- rental store is apparently not launching till February.

  • MacBook Air is real.  Very, very thin notebook (the thickest part is thinner than the thinnest part of the tiniest Sony).  Full sized keyboard (whatever that means), full sized (13.3") LED backlit screen, isight.  Silver (like MacBook Pro).
  • Really, absurdly thin: http://www.apple.com/macbookair/
  • Multi-touch trackpad -- much, much more than currently exist.  A lot like "mouse gestures" or the iPhone.
  • 80GB regular HD (1.8") standard, 64GB SSD (solid-state, super-fast) optional.  2GB RAM standard.
  • 1.6GHz Core 2 Duo standard (upgradeable to 1.8GHz)
  • Tiny magsafe power adapter (45 watt).
  • Built to be wireless.  Includes bluetooth 2.1+EDR, 802.11n, etc but no Ethernet (they sell USB adapters for them though)
  • No optical drive.  Includes wireless "remote disk" functionality (and support for the previously mentioned Time Capsule thing).  You can share the optical drive of any other mac or windows computer on the network, and then use that as though it is local.  Of course, they'll be selling external USB drive for $99.  Teh Steve thinks discs suck.  Just get your media wirelessly from the iTunes Store of course.
  • 5hrs battery life (we'll see).  3.1lbs.
  • Apparently built with a focus on recycle-ability and environmental stuff (50% less retail packaging, metal case, etc, etc, etc)
  • $1799.  Shipping in 2 weeks, orders now.
  • SSD drives make the Air superduper expensive ($3000+ for the 1.8GHz with the SSD)
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fitbrit

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 12:43:18 pm »

Thanks for the highlights! I was Mac only until 2001, when my budding hardware upgrade geek inside found that I was running out of options or money with Macs.
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rjm

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2008, 12:48:19 pm »

Very nice of you to update us, thanks!
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glynor

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2008, 01:00:49 pm »

No problem.  I updated some of the things above to reflect things I just learned...

Ars has a more detailed write-up posted now as well: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080115-apple-macworld-keynote-announcements.html
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bob

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2008, 02:05:32 pm »

I predict some people will buy the solid state version of the macbook air to run windows ;)
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glynor

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2008, 04:31:41 pm »

I predict some people will buy the solid state version of the macbook air to run windows ;)

You think?   ;)  ;D
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KingSparta

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2008, 05:57:05 pm »

That Is Thin, Amazing Really
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JimH

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2008, 06:08:27 pm »

I've carried a notebook PC that weighs less for most of the last five years.
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bspachman

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2008, 08:12:14 pm »

Five years? That's an old machine! :)

Time to upgrade....

brad
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fitbrit

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2008, 09:11:15 pm »

I've carried a notebook PC that weighs less for most of the last five years.

You could achieved the same results by doing a heavier weight for FAR fewer reps.
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glynor

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2008, 09:25:24 am »

I've carried a notebook PC that weighs less for most of the last five years.

I seriously doubt you've carried one that weighs less that:

  • Has a 13.3 inch, full-quality screen
  • Has an even remotely comparable CPU (Core 2 Duo LV 1.6GHz is unheard-of in an ultra-portable, and there is also a big difference between a Mermom C2D LV and the Mermom C2D ULV chips used by most vendors in other ways than raw clockspeed)
  • Has 2 GB RAM
  • Has a reasonably workable keyboard (I refuse to call any laptop keyboard "full sized") and trackpad
  • Has anything approaching 5hrs battery life (we'll see if the Apple does either)


Not saying it is good for everyone (I wouldn't buy one for example), but for people who travel a lot, and have a very competent desktop machine for their primary use (and just want a "travel computer" to use on the plane or on the trip), this is a very competitive and reasonably priced offering...

I just bothers me how some people's response (after seeing only the very basic specs of length, width, and weight) have responded... "Oh, I've seen them smaller than that."  Well, yeah... There are plenty of UMPCs out there, and other ultra-portables.  And there are certainly much more powerful (but far less portable) machines as well on the other side (Apple makes a very nice one for $1k).  But look a little deeper at the specs and you're comparing Apples to... Well, lemons.

(Sorry... I just finished reading a bunch of Apple-hater responses over on one of the PC Enthusiast sites I visit.)
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JimH

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2008, 09:42:01 am »

I don't care about having a big screen on a notebook.

I also don't care about screaming cpu or a lot of memory on a notebook.  It's 1.2Ghz and 1GB RAM.

When I'm on the road, I use it for presentations, usually with a customer projector.  I use it for e-mail, web, and MC.  It works fine for all.  It isn't an HTPC, but I don't care when I'm travelling.

I care a lot about weight and size.  I've got a Sony VAIO T360.  It's about two years old now.  I keep looking at newer models but don't see any advantage.

It gets an honest 5 hours in normal use.

A few years ago, I spent three weeks away from the office and did more or less the same work I do here, using a similar machine.

I'm sure the Apple is great and will cause other manufacturers to build similar models.

Thanks for your coverage, scout.

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benn600

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2008, 09:43:00 am »

About the iPod Touch update.  I have yet to hear anyone make the obvious connection.  The iPhone gets free upgrades because Apple makes money on the monthly fee.  They probably have already got $20-$50 out of their iPhone customers so they can push a minor update.

Plus, this update for iPhone is nothing compared to what the Touch gets--which is finally adding these originally missing apps.

I'm still waiting for a big update.  Probably 1.2 February 29 or 22.
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pank2002

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2008, 09:47:13 am »

ThinkPad X60s with UL display and ultra light battery is also sub-3 pounds. It uses a 2.5" hdd so it would be way faster than this Apple machine any day. With SSD drive it would be even lighter. The processor is the same. The keyboard is way better! The built quality also significantly better. You can switch/upgrade parts yourself. I wonder how easy it would be to install new RAMs in an Air. Significantly better service too. It got three usb ports, plus other useful ports. For 100 extra you get a dock and not just a external drive. It is definitely not as thin but who cares? The only thing I do not like about the X60 is the XGA screen.
As Jim somehow suggested this is not something new. It mainly Apple hype (IMO).

BTW: Thanks for the update post. I was wondering what the Time Capsule thing was :)
BTW2: The most revolutionary update for the iPhone is the new ability to sent text messages to more than one person! I cannot believe that other manufactures have not though about that! I love Steve!
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rjm

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2008, 10:32:57 am »

Quote
SDK in February for 3rd Party Apps

Were enough details presented to tell if the SDK will enable JRiver to support the Touch?
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glynor

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2008, 10:39:28 am »

ThinkPad X60s with UL display and ultra light battery is also sub-3 pounds. It uses a 2.5" hdd so it would be way faster than this Apple machine any day. With SSD drive it would be even lighter. The processor is the same.

No it isn't.  The ThinkPad X60 (which, I'd agree is a fantastic ultra-portable) does NOT have the same processor as the MacBook Air.  That was my point above...

Macbook Air: C2D Merom LV @1.6GHz, dual-core, 800 MHz FSB, 4MB L2 cache
Lenovo Thinkpad X60: C2D Yonah LV L2400 @ 1.6 GHz, dual-core, 667 MHz FSB, 2MB L2 cache

The ThinkPad X60 is a very nice machine, and is a good competitor, but it isn't the same specs.  Now the X61 is a different story entirely (for a much higher price), of course.... I'm still trying to figure out how they squeezed a T7300 in there without killing the battery life.  I really wonder how long those batteries are going to last (longevity, not runtime)...

Still... Apple has proved again and again that portable computers and personal electronics, when you come right down to it, are about more than just specs.  Design means a lot for something you carry around with you, and from the reviews I've seen so far, this one is no slouch.  Like all Apple products, it is targeted at a market... It doesn't necessarily match you (or me), but it is a serious market.  Style means something.  Lots of people would never use more than one USB port (especially with a well designed multi-touch trackpad that is actually better to use than an external mouse).  Bluetooth printer, wireless internet, magsafe connector, backlit keyboard with light sensor, etc, etc... Little things add up.

It's like the Wii.  Specs aren't everything.
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glynor

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2008, 10:42:23 am »

Were enough details presented to tell if the SDK will enable JRiver to support the Touch?

We'll see if it goes the other way.  The SDK is specifically to allow you to develop 3rd Party Apps that will run natively on the iPhone/Touch itself (not on a computer that connects to the iPhone/Touch).
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bspachman

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2008, 10:53:06 am »

Yeah...no actual details presented about the SDK, only that we could expect it in late February.

As for charging the Touch owners for the update, it all has to do with accounting practices and adding monetizable features to existing products. The Macintosh world went through this before when Apple had to charge something like $5 for a software update to unlock the draft-802.11n functionality in one of their iMac versions. The problem I see is that Touch owners will have to keep going through this process...I think.

As for the MBAir, I think it's very clearly targeted as a 2nd computer, not as any kind of desktop replacement. Not quite what I would want, but my primary machine is already a laptop. The biggest thing that bothers me is not the volume or weight, but the AREA that the machine takes up--unfortunately, it's a smidge bigger than existing some of the existing MacBook options. What it will do, however, is make me think about getting a desktop AND a MBAir when it's time for me to upgrade...

brad
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benn600

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2008, 11:01:16 am »

How is it not an amazing product?  It is the thinnest notebook in the world!  So if you want speed, get those huge, ugly, porkers.  If you want the thinnest notebook in the world, get the Air.

Of course they have to make compromises.  I saw the sides from the keynote.  There just isn't any more space for a second USB or anything else!  I'm looking forward to seeing one in person at some point.
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glynor

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2008, 12:09:19 pm »

The Macintosh world went through this before when Apple had to charge something like $5 for a software update to unlock the draft-802.11n functionality in one of their iMac versions.

I totally agree that charging $20 for a very nice Mail application (plus the other "pack-ins") is completely justified.  Those people who bought the Touch bought it knowing full well it's capabilities.  No one ever made any promises that you'd get a whole bunch of additional features, and certainly not for free!  I mean... Verizon charges $2.99 for a freaking ringtone!

However, as far as the Draft-N charge debacle. That was a very different story.  First off, they charged $1.99, which is a quite nominal fee for the feature provided.  The fee charged was effectively just enough to cover the credit card transaction costs and accounting costs for taking the payment.  It's not like they made any money on it!

The products affected were early-revision iMacs, MacBooks, and MacBook Pros which were never marketed as being 802.11-N capable.  This functionality was added in months and months later after the products were sold.  What happened was that the hardware was "probably" Draft-N capable when they were sold, but the Draft hadn't been even close to finalized, so Apple marketed them as 802.11-G and then once the Draft was complete (and they were actually compliant for real) they went ahead and issued a patch that turned the feature on.  All subsequent computers sold included the Draft-N capability out-of-the-box.  This is quite a different thing than selling a product with a feature "turned off" and then requiring you to pay up to turn it on (ala Vista), but offering this as an "optional upgrade" in order to improve profit margins.

Also, they explained at the time that this charge was required by federal accounting law (the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, an ill-conceived and extremely confusing accounting law passed quickly in the wake of the Enron/Tyco/Adelphia/Worldcom collapses).  While this justification is disputed, I've seen plenty of legal analysis that backs their position.   

At the very least, they likely had lawyers who could have reasonably interpreted the rules that way.  Bear in mind, at the time when this was happening, the SEC had Apple under active investigation over the Stock Options backdating thing.  The corporate lawyers were almost certainly in full-out "protect the mothership at all costs" mode.
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pank2002

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2008, 12:42:43 pm »

No it isn't.  The ThinkPad X60 (which, I'd agree is a fantastic ultra-portable) does NOT have the same processor as the MacBook Air.  That was my point above...
Sorry. I meant the X61 :) Either way the faster drive of the X6x should make the performance better overall. I sold a T60 to a friend of mine. I recently 'inspected' it to see how he was treating it. I have never seen so much crap in the start up process. He had installed all kinds of crap. Even though it still started up way faster than my X60. His processor is a 200-300 Mhz faster and he has 1 extra gb of RAM (3 vs 2), but I believe the drive made the difference. The hdd is usually the bottleneck.
A new X61s is cheaper than the Air, and IMO it holds a better value.

Quote
I'm still trying to figure out how they squeezed a T7300 in there without killing the battery life.  I really wonder how long those batteries are going to last (longevity, not runtime)...
I would love to burn down my X60 battery. The faster the better. If it is in bad shape before the 12th (13th?) month they will send you a new one for free :D

Quote
Still... Apple has proved again and again that portable computers and personal electronics, when you come right down to it, are about more than just specs.  Design means a lot for something you carry around with you, and from the reviews I've seen so far, this one is no slouch.  Like all Apple products, it is targeted at a market... It doesn't necessarily match you (or me), but it is a serious market.  Style means something.  Lots of people would never use more than one USB port (especially with a well designed multi-touch trackpad that is actually better to use than an external mouse).  Bluetooth printer, wireless internet, magsafe connector, backlit keyboard with light sensor, etc, etc... Little things add up.
It's like the Wii.  Specs aren't everything.
You are of course right; the Air is for a different market. However, I would still hold that the Air does not bring anything new; It is thin, but that is it! It is not revolutionary in any other way (as I see it). Had FujisuSimens or Medion made this computer, we would not see a similar buzz.

Edit: Not being able to switch battery is (also) quite negative. At least in my book. . .
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benn600

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2008, 02:23:38 pm »

Quote
I would still hold that the Air does not bring anything new; It is thin, but that is it!

The processor is BRAND new!  It was developed specifically for Apple's product!
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glynor

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2008, 03:41:23 pm »

The processor is BRAND new!  It was developed specifically for Apple's product!

The package for the processor was developed "for" Apple's Macbook Air.  The actual CPU core is not custom, only the package the core sits on (the piece of PCB and the pin-out and whatnot).

Also... This new packaging appears to have been created by Intel not just for Apple, but also for their upcoming Montevina SFF platform due in the second half of 2008.  Montevina is the successor to the current Santa Rosa mobile platform (the platform is the whole package -- CPU, chipset, and CPU packaging, among other details -- the codename for what Intel markets as "Centrino").  Intel intends to release at some unannounced point after Montevina ships a special Small Form Factor (SFF) version of the regular Montevina chipset.

Anand published an article today, which makes a lot of sense, postulating that Intel already had developed a core-compatible new SFF package for their upcoming new SFF platform which will be issued in (probably late) 2H 2008.  Likely what happened went something like this:

Intel: Hey Apple!  We hear you're thinking about doing an ultra-portable (and you have that Mac Mini and Apple TV box that desperately needs an update).  We have some cool new stuff coming up in late 2008 you might be interested in.  The CPU is on this nifty new package that is 60% smaller than the ones we currently use for our mobile platform CPUs.

Apple: Wow, cool!  We actually have a product in the pipeline that this'd be perfect for, but it is due out way before the end of 2008.

Intel: Oh, that kinda stinks.

Apple: Yeah.  Hey... Any chance you could hook us up with a special version of one of your current processors on that fancy new package?  We're going to seal the case of the box, so the customer won't be able to open it up and upgrade the CPU anyway, so it doesn't matter if it doesn't use the standard CPU socket!  And, besides, we're "cool" and we'll pimp you up when we announce the product, and tell them how cool you were about it.

Intel: I'm not sure... Let me check with the engineers...

Apple: (tapping foot)

Intel Engineers: (grumble, grumble)

Intel: They said they can swing it.  We'll hook you up with one of our current Merom CPUs with the fancy new package for your cool Macbook Thin Air.  Make sure to pimp us hard in the intro though.  In fact, Paul wants to go out on stage, and wants some cool free Apple swag for his kids.

Apple: No problemo!  You guys rock!  Why did we dis you so hard for so long?!?  Screw Motorola and IMB!

 ;)  ;D
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pank2002

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2008, 04:53:26 pm »

Glynor,
I am sure it was just like that  ;D Funny it is!
Was a Intel guy really on stage?

How is it not an amazing product?  It is the thinnest notebook in the world!  So if you want speed, get those huge, ugly, porkers.  If you want the thinnest notebook in the world, get the Air.
If you want the tiniest laptop in the world, go look for a Sony X505. Or maybe just a IdeaPad U110. Also, tiny is not just about weight. The footprint of the laptop is still quite large. Look at the bezel!
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fitbrit

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2008, 05:03:01 pm »

Glynor: Tell me that IMB was deliberate; if so, that's a great touch!  ;D
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glynor

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2008, 01:46:07 pm »

Was a Intel guy really on stage?

Yep.  Paul Otellini (the Intel CEO) was on-stage with teh Steve to intro the CPU used in the Air.

Glynor: Tell me that IMB was deliberate; if so, that's a great touch!  ;D

Actually, I can't take credit.  We have a department here at work called IMB (Institute for Molecular Biophysics, if anyone cares) and I did a simple transpositional error because I'm so used to typing IMB rather than IBM.

Was funny though.   ;D
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glynor

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Re: OT - Macworld Coverage (For Those Who Care)
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2008, 03:27:35 pm »

Turns out that I (and Anand) was right and wrong with my suppositions about the CPU above.  Anand just posted a follow-up article, with further details on the CPU in the Macbook Air just received from Intel... http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3203&p=1

Turns out it is indeed a custom CPU core, in addition to custom packaging, and that not only the packaging for the CPU was modified, but the packaging for the entire chipset (an Intel 965 chipset including integrated graphics) was modified as well.  This was confirmed to be an "early-release" of packaging developed for use on the forthcoming Montevina SFF platform, modified to be used with Merom.  However...

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(Intel quote) "The Core 2 Duo Processor TDP is 20 watts. The Macbook Air is using existing Core 2 Duo technology with a lower voltage spec in a new miniaturized packaging design. It is not a ULV processor."

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The line about lower voltages threw us, we originally assumed that the Core 2 Duos used in the MacBook Air were the L7700 and L7500, both Low Voltage 65nm Meroms running at somewhere between 0.9V and 1.2000V. A little more digging revealed that the chips used in the MacBook Air weren't LV parts after all, but they were lower voltage than the standard mobile Core 2 processors.

The 1.6GHz chip in the MacBook Air runs at 1.0V - 1.25V, while the 1.8GHz part runs at 1.1125V - 1.25V. Note that this is less voltage than a standard mobile Core 2 Duo, but more voltage than the Low Voltage chips. The TDP of these not-quite-low-voltage Core 2s reflects the increased voltage; while the L7700 and L7500 have a 17W TDP, the chips used in the MacBook Air are rated at 20W (standard mobile Core 2 Duo chips are 35W parts).

So, it looks like Intel is custom-binning the CPUs for the Air as well as plunking them on a custom package.  Anand speculates that they are using this special 20w die because the smaller package is less efficient in power delivery to the core, which requires you to feed it more power to achieve the same clockspeeds as you would for the same die on a different package.  This seems like a reasonable explanation.

So, it looks like Apple chose "thin" and "small" over heat efficiency.  It'll be interesting to see how hot these things get (is it going to sterilize you if you use it on your lap like the original 1.0 MacBook Pros did).

In the second part of his new article, he does a nice analysis of the market for the Air, and makes some interesting points.  Worthwhile quick read, really.
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