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[Scronch]

In another thread, JimH said:

Check the wav level setting in your windows volume controls. It should be set high.

I've been meaning to ask about this.  If I am going to an external amp, through a sound card or through USB via stereo-link, what would be a "good" setting?

I run MJ volume (windows "volume control") at 80%.  That gives me a little headroom for mjextman.exe /Command VolumeUp.  I set Windows "wave balance" at about 80% or 90%.  So the question is, with these types of settings, how much bit loss (loss of quality) am I causing, if any?  Is there any concern about running both at 100%?

Scronch

[JohnH]

I am not sure about the technical issues involved but I run both at 100% on mine going to an external amp and have not noticed any problems.

[LCtheDJ]

I run all MJ and Windows volume settings at 100% into an audio mixer/preamp and then into my amplified speakers (400 watts each).  I use the mixer to control volume according to the led display (vu meter) and set final volume with the controls on the speakers.  I figure if I run the volume low on the source, then I have a lower signal to noise ratio - if I have to run up the volume at the amp to get the music louder, I'm also running up the volume of the noise.  So far, this has worked out fine for me.

[Scronch]

LC and John -

I agree about the S/N being higher with a lower volume setting at the PC.  Going through USB, I assume this manifests itself as fewer bits left to emulate the music.  I would still like to hear Nikolay's or Matt's input (or someone else from JRiver who can expound on the technicalities of this).

Scronch

[gkerber]

Hmmmm...  I've got a coax digital connection from my sound card to my home B&K preamp, and the windows volume, nor the options initial volume have any effect.  I must have a "line level" connection using the coax digital connection.  I control the volume using the volume on my preamp.

[Scronch]

That's interesting.  I've connected from the sound card to the preamp, and from USB to stereo-link to the amp, and for both of these all of the PC volume controls are active.

Scronch

[RemyJ]

I'll add some conjecture and fact to the discussion...

First the conjecture:  I don't think it's possible to affect quality of the digital stream using just the volume controls.  MJ's own volume control doesn't actually change the data stream, it just tells the driver chain what to do.  DSP and Replay Gain are another matter as they do certainly alter the data stream.

Now for the fact part:  Changing the volume can certainly affect the quality of the end result by over/under driving the analog components.  This is especially true if your sound card's "Line Out" doubles as "Headphone Out".   Setting the volume too high can cause the sound card (especially a cheap one) to send out a distorted analog signal.  Or, even if it's a perfect signal, it's high level could overload the amplifier.   Setting the volume too low will usually cause a person to compensate it for it at the amp which will introduce noise, as you've already pointed out.

I happen to have a cheap audio handheld oscilloscope so what I did was to set the MJ volume control to 100%, play a full volume test signal from a wav file, then use the wave/mp3 control in the windows mixer to set the output level to about 2.0v p-p making sure it doesn't clip.  The first time I did this I forgot to turn the amp off.  NOT GOOD.  

Then I set the volume control on the external amp so that real music is as loud as I'd ever want it.  Now I can play with the MJ volume control to my heart's delight and now worry about blowing my eardrums (or what's left of them) out, or overdriving the analog components.

Remy.

[Osho]

Presuming you are using analog out of your sound card,

It is desirable to leave your MJ and Windows volume to 100% and change volume through an external preamp/receiver. The main reason for this is that volume control in windows or MJ is done by digital attentuation and is not very good quality.

This is a quote from my sound card manual (Lynx L22 sound card manual), ON page 17,


"Volume Faders – Controls digital attenuation of the audio being played or monitored.
This control acts on the digital signals before D/A conversion. With the volume
fader at its maximum position, the vertical line within the fader turns black, no
volume calculation is performed and the audio stream is unaltered. This is the
recommended position for critical recording and mixdown sessions in which
the highest signal quality is required. Volume control processing is done prior to
peak meter readings causing the peak meters to reflect any volume control changes.
Since volume changes act on the digitally converted signals, they have no effect
on the analog full-scale input and output levels. This must be done with the Trim
control. When the volume fader is not at its maximum or minimum position, the
vertical line within the fader turns red to indicate that the volume control is active."

The bolds are theirs, not mine.

Your sound card maybe different but windows volume control method is same and similar concerns apply.

Osho

[gkerber]

My sound card is an "Audiophile 2496" which has no amps built it at all.  It only has analog line out and coax PCM digital line out.  By audio defination, a line out is not affected by volume controls.  Just like my audio preamp for my home audio system, all "line out" jacks are at a set level, not controlled by the volume control.  The outputs to the power amps are of course controlled by the volume control.  CD Players, VCR, DVD players all have "line out" jacks, meaning they have a standard output level which your preamp/receiver expects.  

I guess that's why my sound card's output is not afffected by the volume controls in Windows, my card has "line out" levels.  Which of course is best for my application, feeding a digital input on my B&K preamp.

[JimH]

I've read your posts now for a week or so and find them always interesting.  Would you tell us something about where you are and what you do?

Or, at least, where do you live?

If you don't want to say anything, I understand, and no need to reply.  I hope you will take my interest as a simple form of flattery.

Jim

[gkerber]

Jim,   About me?

I live in Denver Colorado and work as a software developer for Qwest (it's not my fault....), programming in C|PLS||PLS| and UNIX.  Windows programming confuses me, I am really not a gui type person, I prefer the command line when it's faster than messing around with the mouse.  I was playing around with .NET and C# to maybe someday write an MJ, but then I found MJ already existed, so why re-invent the wheel?  (and for only $25).  The Windows code editors basically suck compared to UNIX vi.  It takes so much work to simply copy a line and paste it somewhere else.  I've got GVIM for any DOS work I do.

Audio has always been my passion since I first joined the "Columbia Record Club" back when I was 13 (I'm 44 now).  (7 cassettes for 3.98 and I only had to buy 7 more at "regular club prices" within the first year).

I'm working on setting up a "discless" music system.  I currently have a Sony 400 cd-changer with the 2-way remote, which downloads all the artist/album into to the remote for easy access to play albums.  A friend was using MusicMatch, but it didn't have gapless track bridging, so it was useless for playing Pink Floyd and other live albums.

I have an IR remote control repeater system in my house with "Home Theater Master" learning universal remotes in my living room, bedroom, office and kitchen to control the system in the living room.  Separate amps feed the office and bedroom speakers for individual volume control adjustments.  (no speakers in the kitchen).  The extra amps are in the living room and feed the office/bedroom speakers, but I have total contorl of them via the IR repeater system.  I have a full home theater system in my living room (only a 35" tv though) with 200 wpc to all 5 speakers and a Sunfire subwoofer.

I keep the 2-way remote for the cd player in the bedroom to select albums, I use a database on my computer to find albums (and their slot number) in my office and I can see the changer display in my living room to select albums.

Now that I've found MJ, I think I can pull it off.  I've just received a StreamZap IR remote which I'm told will support MJ "this weeek", but soon anyway.  And if I can figure out how to get the MJ webremote working on a pda, then I'll have the coolest remote ever.  But I'd need one in my office and bedroom, so the cost could be high.

I hope I have not bored anyone to death.

But no matter how good anything is, I have suggestions for MJ and will be posting my "wish list" soon....

George

[JimH]

Nice profile, George.  Send in a picture and we'll put it on the community page.

And UNIX, ah..., how sweet it is, a real OS....

You'll wake up gateley with your comments.  He's a True UNIX Geek, and has started porting MJ to Linux/UNIX.  It's a big, big job, but he is strong.  

Thanks for the details.  It's always fun to find out who's behind the "funny names".

[Trelane]

Sronch:
Here is how the volume on the Stereo-Link works:

Always set Wave, MIDI, and CD audio volumes to 100%. The master volume depends on what you want to do. If you want the absolute best SNR you can get, set it to 100%. However, setting the master volume to 100% disables the built-in bass and treble controls. If you want to use these, you must use a lower master volume. I have found that 70-80% works the best.

Try this, set the bass level to 50% (this is available in the advanced options of the Windows mixer) and the master volume to 100%. Now, slowly decrease the master volume to about 70%. You'll notice that bass response increases as the master volume decreases. This is a very nice feature, as it prevents you from overdriving your amplifier by flattening the response as you increase the master volume to 100%. 100% volume level is completely flat.

This information is vaguely outlined in the manual. I did some testing of my own to fill in the details. Hope this helps!

Mike
Listening to: 'Ulceration' from 'Concrete' by 'Fear Factory' on Media Jukebox

[shdbcamping]

All this "Stuff" is neat but there are soooooo many soundcards most of which have their own "I wannna be in charge" software that all and or any of the post COULD work but more than likely will only work for a particular sound card. this is not even taking into account the MILLIONS of combinations of actual pre and post amps by lotsa different manufacturers.
The bottom line... Take the time to play around with your system and find out what works for you. AND if i may, Get a SB Audigy card... it cut the playing around time immensely for me.
P.S. I have no affiliation with the product other than I'm verrry hapy with it.

[Scronch]

Trelane - That was helpful information.  But, I find that on the PC using the stereo-link, the Windows bass and treble sliders are grayed out--probably because there is no soundcard.  That's OK, though, because I wouldn't use them anyway.  I prefer to shape the sound within MJ.

shdbcamping - I understand your concern, but in my case, there isn't a soundcard.  I'm only using a digital USB signal.

Scronch