Theater View Is Not Related to Main Database View Schemes

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glynor:

--- Quote from: Matt on August 15, 2008, 04:56:43 pm ---1. NEW: Theater View "Views" menu is fully configurable in Options > Theater View > Audio, Image, etc. > Configure.
2. Changed: Theater View "Views" menu is not related to main database view schemes.

--- End quote ---

I decided that since I am ranting on about this a bit, and since it might evolve into a multi-build discussion anyway, it is best to just split it off into a separate topic right from the get-go.

--- Quote from: Matt on August 15, 2008, 06:46:48 pm ---I think when I click Audio in Theater View

--- End quote ---

Just remember that some of us hardly ever do click (or choose with a remote) Audio in Theater View. I use Theater View almost entirely for Video playback, and I'm not alone. I'd certainly love to see improvements, and if this is the start of that road, then I'll shut up and try to be happy in the interim.

That said... On a conceptual level I don't understand why the instinct seems to be to segregate Theater View's navigation off into its own sandbox. It is exactly the opposite of how I look at it, and it makes my brain hurt. Why would you want to have to learn how to use something twice? If you know how your media is organized (and where to look and what data "tree" to expect) in Standard View, why would you ever want to have to learn a whole new way to look at it and think about it for Theater View? If I wanted this, wouldn't I just want a completely separate application to handle the 10-foot UI?

The way I look at it is that I want Theater View to be identical to Standard View, but with a simpler UI that has different control widgets and font sizes that works from the couch. Period. A "10-foot window" on MC. As near as I can tell... The current goal seems to be to avoid ever having another "tier" below Audio, Video, or Images in the Theater View "tree". So that when you click on Audio, it should take you directly to your "Panes".

This is a terrible idea as far as I am concerned, and it'll be very difficult to get it to work for me. Now, if I used Theater View primarily for Audio, I suppose it could work. Give me a [Genre]/[Artist]/[Album] view scheme under Audio in Theater View and I'd be fairly happy with it for most things. But I don't use Theater View for Audio. I use it for Video. Like an organized TiVO. And it works very, very well.

The "direct to panes" motif doesn't work because I do not browse my TV Shows with the same "Panes" as I browse my Movies. I don't browse my Home Videos with the same "Panes" as I use for TV Shows, and sometimes I don't browse my Home Movies in the same way every time... but they're all "Video". Going into some menu and reconfiguring the view each time I decide "no, I can't really find a movie I feel like watching, maybe I'll watch an episode of The Wire instead" is absurd, even if it is easy to do. In Standard View (and Theater View currently) I have pre-defined views, in a nice tree.

When I click Video in the tree, I get a choice of: TV Shows, Movies, Home Videos, and a few other types...

Then when I choose Movies, it shows [Genre] and does NOT show any non-Movie video files. Likewise, when I choose TV Shows, it shows [Series], and when I choose Home Videos it shows a calendar-like view starting with [Year]. But maybe sometimes I want to browse home movies by [Keyword] or by [Album]), so I have View Schemes for browsing like that too. And so on and so forth for my other video types.

So... I've said my piece. And so you know, I'm really not upset or anything. I just don't really understand the motivation. And, again, perhaps you've thought of all this and you have some really slick solution. Certainly wouldn't be the first time you surprised me!

Matt:

--- Quote from: glynor on August 15, 2008, 09:59:20 pm ---Then when I choose Movies, it shows [Genre] and does NOT show any non-Movie video files. Likewise, when I choose TV Shows, it shows [Series], and when I choose Home Videos it shows a calendar-like view starting with [Year]. But maybe sometimes I want to browse home movies by [Keyword] or by [Album]), so I have View Schemes for browsing like that too. And so on and so forth for my other video types.
--- End quote ---

You can still make Movies and TV Shows views. You will switch between them using the Views button. It's the same, just different.

glynor:

--- Quote from: Matt on August 15, 2008, 10:12:53 pm ---You can still make Movies and TV Shows views. You will swich between them using Views button. It's the same, just different.

--- End quote ---

Played with it a bit. Defined my TV Shows and Movies views. They do work. However, this is clearly not intuitive and easy for my Wife and Mom to use without instruction.

EDIT (for clarity): As it is now with this build, when they start up MC from the desktop and pick Video from home in Theater View, they get a random assortment of video panes (whichever view happened to be used last). There is no visual indicator that they may or may not be seeing all of the available Video files on the system. There is no cue for them to click on the Views button in order to change this. There is no simple way to "go back" and start over with the list of possible choices. And, what they get will change depending on what was last used (and that might have been done by someone else two or three days earlier).

So, for example, I just started up Theater View, hit Video, and was presented with a list of TV Show Series titles. If I were my mom, I'd probably just assume that is all that's available, and I'd say "I thought you said you had a bunch of movies on here?"

In MC12, I pick Video and get:

--- Code: ---TV Shows -->
Series --->
Season ---> Files
Movies --->
Genre --->
Artist --->
Corporation ---> Files
Home Videos (Calendar) --->
[Year formatted] --->
[Month] --->
[Day] ---> Files
Home Videos (Keywords) --->
[Keywords] --->
[People] --->
[Places] --->
[Events] --->
Home Videos (Albums) --->
[Albums] --->
Same as Calendar --> Files
Music Videos --->
[Genre] --->
[Artist] ---> Files
Podcasts --->
[Album] ---> Files
Adult --->
[Genre] ---> Files
Imports --->
(Calendar-like View based on Import Date) ---> Files

--- End code ---

And, I'll probably eventually have a "Kids" view as well (and, I imagine, remove the Adult one).

Either way, this is easy to use. I've actually given Theater View and the remote to my Mom (who had never touched MC or iTunes or anything similar before in her life) and told her where the arrow keys and enter key was, and she could easily figure it out and pick a movie to watch.

If I gave it to her now, she'd never find anything. I'd have to explain to go to the Views button, which she'd forget an hour later, and then she'd complain: "What good is that? Why can't I just pick TV Shows or Movies right away? Where the heck am I in this thing?"

It just isn't as good, it is confusing to novices. And the list is FAR too long to put under the Views menu button as is. I like how I have the WHOLE window to choose my media "sub" types (even though I had to create my own custom field for it since I can't modify the built-in one).

EDIT: This also doesn't address the fact that I have to "reinvent the wheel" manually to get all these views (which I already HAVE in Standard View) working again in Theater View. Extremely annoying. And, even once I go through the pain of doing this all once, when I decide two months from now to "adjust" one of my View Schemes slightly, I'll have to remember to go and do the same thing again in the special Theater View configuration dialog. I'll, of course, forget to do this, so they won't match and I'll be all confused as to how things are organized.

And if I have to do all that, and I still can't get it quite the way I want it... I might as well switch to SageTV or one of the other HTPC front-ends.

raym:
I don't think I can add too much more to what Glynor said. I share his concerns with all of this.

What I'm really wondering is why? I mean, havn't we been down this road before? I thought it all worked really well the way it was. Good for beginners and advanced users alike. Of all the improvements that could be made to Theater View, this is one area I would have left alone. I just think you guys had it right in the first place.

What benefit is separating - and in most cases - duplicating view schemes supposed to give? I now need to manage my view schemes in two places!?!

The change just introduces too much additional naviagation to pull up my custom views and it's not clear which view I'm actually in.

I know it's early days... hopefully this is one of those changes that's not here to stay... sorry.

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