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[lalittle]

For all of you who are upset about the fact that MC may discontinue support of iPods or other apple handhelds (due to the fact that apple makes it so difficult for third party companies to support syncing on these products), here are apple's pages for product feedback.  JimH suggested that we let apple know how we feel about this, so it may help for anyone effected by this to send apple feedback in order to voice your comments on this.

iPod Classic:  http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipod.html

iPod Touch:  http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipodtouch.html

iPhone:  http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

The main page for selecting another product (like iPod Nano or Shuffle) is:  http://www.apple.com/feedback/

Please remember to be polite -- your comments will carry more weight if you don't sound like you're simply chastising apple.  This is not to say that you shouldn't be honest or even negative -- you should definitely let them know that the situation effects you in a very negative way.  The idea is to communicate to them that their current practice of trying to prevent other companies from being able to sync to their handhelds (primarily iPods in today's market) is limiting the use of iPods, and in turn causing a lot of resentment in their customer base.  In many cases this is causing people to look elsewhere for a handheld player.  We need to let them know that locking other developers out stifles progress, and in fact that this very practice led to the rise and dominance of DOS and then Windows based PCs.  They use images of John Lennon and Albert Einstein as icons for their products, stating the idea of "thinking different" and inspiring "genius," but then they turn around and do everything they can to shut any developer other than apple out of the loop.  This is NOT how you inspire new ideas or progress, and history has repeatedly shown that it is definitely not how you maintain dominance in a field in the long run.

Another note that might help would be to let them know that just because you use MC for iPod syncing, it does not mean that you won't use the iTunes store to purchase media.  The idea is to be able to use a different app for organizing and syncing if it suits you better, but still be able to use other sources (like iTunes) for purchasing media.  Even if iTunes competes with Performer, there is still plenty of room in the market for multiple sources of media, and this situation can lead to more market stimulation and higher sales all around.

On a side note to JimH:

Please understand that while I fully understand your frustration with apple's annoying firmware updates that keep breaking MC functionality with iPods, I still feel that a solution to this issue is more likely to come from JRiver than it is from apple.  From a market share point of view, apple simply has less to lose by doing nothing.  I agree that emailing apple is still something that we should do, but at the same time I'm pragmatic enough to know that in a situation like this, as unfair as it may be, the real hope is that a fix comes from the JRiver side of things.  Note that this could mean any one of a few different situations -- i.e. figuring out how to make it work as you guys have in the past, or having a third party create some sort of plug-in, or even convincing apple (i.e. JRiver convincing apple) to be more forthcoming on this matter.

On this note, has anyone from JRiver contacted apple about this?  I'm curious what their response to an actual company was.  Based on past experience with apple and customer feedback, a company like JRiver may have more sway with apple than a bunch of customers.  If customer feedback might help, then feedback from JRiver could also help, and the idea is to do everything we can to alleviate this situation.  Even if I disregard my own needs, I still strongly feel that iPod support is a critical part of a media organizer, and that losing this support could have an impact on MC's overall success.

Thanks,

Larry

[gummbah]

Thanks. Great initiative.
Personally I switched to iTunes which is not bad at all once I got used to it.
These days I find myself firing up iTunes more than mc, even for regular playback.

[lalittle]

Thanks. Great initiative.
Personally I switched to iTunes which is not bad at all once I got used to it.
These days I find myself firing up iTunes more than mc, even for regular playback.

I just find too many limitations with iTunes, from it's nearly total lack of any real customization capabilities, to it's failure to provide a "Theater View" mode, to the absense of MC's "Library Server" feature.  There are simply a lot of things MC can do that iTunes cannot, and MC offers a HUGE advantage when it comes to the details of every day use (i.e. all the different display and tagging approaches that suit different people with different needs.)

On top of this, I'm sick to death of apple's "our way or the highway" mentality, where they decide that certain features should be implemented in certain ways regardless of the fact that actually USING these features might be incredibly clumsy (apple's approach to audiobooks is one example of this, where management options are severly limited.)  MC's "have it your way" approach, on the other hand, allows people to find their own workflow methods that work best for their particular needs.  Every time I play with iTunes a bit, I'm struck by how constrictive it feels.

That said, without future iPod support in MC, we may be forced to use iTunes for syncing, at which point we're stuck with an ugly situation.  Unless some new handheld product comes out that addresses my particular needs as well as the iPod currently does, I'm honestly not sure what the solution might be.  All I know is that at this time, I can't seem to find an alternative to the iPod for what I personally need a handheld to do.

Larry

[ThoBar]

Thanks Larry... submitting as we speak...

[hartmoney]

Brand new iPhone today..... so disappointed about the lack of third party support... feed back left

[lalittle]

Thanks to everyone for continuing to report your opinions to apple.  It may do nothing, but who knows -- maybe somebody at apple will accidentally read it one day.

Larry

[JONCAT]

Good idea, and thanks to JRiver for sticking with it for so long.

DC

[Magic_Randy]

I don't disagree with providing feedback to Apple, but I will be surprised if they listen.

And even if Apple does not go out of their way to block companies like JRiver, there are other issues - we can't expect anyone other than Apple to sync up things from the App Store, contacts, their music store, etc. - so we have to do some syncing with iTunes (at least for the iPhone and iTouch).

So another approach is to sync libraries, and let iTunes sync the devices. If the sync could add to the iTunes library, delete orphans, sync playlists, sync last played, and sync ratings we are pretty well there. While I'm not sure of this, I think they provide a way to manipulate their library. I say this because I use a product called iTLU to fix up the iTunes library after I make changes with MC, and it always seems to work. So whatever Apple is doing to make it hard for partners does not appear to have a big impact on this approach.

Just my 2 cents...