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[Media Freak]

OK, before anybody start wondering what is this, including the MC team itself... let me say that these are just rendering of ideas that I have as far as skinning and improving MC's Front/Theater View end. What's suck is I'm no programmer so I could only came up with rendering. However, I felt it's worth a shot on starting this thread and see what this idea generate as far as interest from the skinning community here and get to know if MC even remotely possible to be skinned that way.
For me to show where MC's front end is lacking is to compare it with the players shaking the game and moving to make the HTPC experience on a big screen better; After all, MC's name is all over their forums. I've been with MC for a long time and I can vouch for its powerful back-end, its smartlists and in recent time, its stability. However, the front end in my opinion is lacking. I'm still baffled by the fact is so hard for MC to pull automatic info for movies. Yes, there are a few plugins in the forum for that but not only they're not easy to use, MC's front end totally let the info down. So, I've been experiencing with a few different front end software. For anybody in the HTPC world, they're no mystery.  I'll mention that I was amazed with MeediOS and XBMC front end most recent skins. However, all these other programs suck with editing and cataloging which keeps leading me to stick to MC; There's gotta be a way for MC to improve its front end. Well, at least that's what I'm thinking and maybe with the introduction of this thread, maybe... just maybe one or a few skinners here with great skinning knowledge of MC (even MC's team itself) would take a look and see how they could make MC the definite ultimate front and back end king, not necessarily based on my rendering but at picking the ideas and come up with a better interface. Again these are renders and with ideas from all of you guys in here pouring in then this can become way better with more features, yes... I believe this can be huge for MC.
The big question that remains is: Can MC even be skinned to have such a look and integrated features, well... at least some of them?

Let the debate start...

[Mr ChriZ]

The skinning engine allows you to play with the graphics, and occasionally move stuff, but not much more.
FWI I would say MC's recent theater view changes have given it some catch up recently.

I think this is more of a development thing to add extra information panels in various areas.

[HTPC4ME]

Great work Media Freak... like the ideas.

lots of potential!  did you by chance see my post of my "futuristic" ideas for theaterview? i love your idea of media popup info on the covers.

in case your curious. here are some of the ideas i had and screens of my old interface with animated icons... time has progressed and when i made these it was 8yrs ago and for a diffrent app. but i'm still proud of it. Theater view has got Loads of potential. I'm really excited to see what the future holds and th epossiblities it would be able to do, th epossiblities now compared to 8 years ago is just phenomenal to me. Gotta love technology and it's rapid growth.

i also love the always on weather, time and State Location.  like my post.. maybe  a scrolling rss feed line? or voice video popups. All Of Courses plugins that could be enabled or disabled for those stuck on minimal looking interfaces.

I Give Ya Credit for taking the time to draw those up and for posting this topic... shows your love for the proggy and what JRiver could offer all of us in our homes.
Great artistic expression! I'll be be watching this one.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=55597.0

[Mr ChriZ]

Sorry reading it back my post sounds Negative.  It's not to meant to.  Just pointing out the limitations of the skinning engine.
It is impressive that you've but that amount of time into the mockups.   

[Media Freak]

lots of potential!  did you by chance see my post of my "futuristic" ideas for theaterview? i love your idea of media popup info on the covers.

I know you've been on the same path. I agree with you on the possibilities and growth with Theater views in recent years. It's all about getting the right people to build this thing up and like you said, even if each part comes up as plugins whether open source or commercial, it still be a great feeling to have the options to customize MC's front end.

Mr Chriz, I understand your point. Hey... if it's limited then we have no choice to point its limitations. That's how we'll know what can be done on the MC engine and what can't be done in its current stage.

[kurushi]

Hi ,there's some good ideas but for know the engine can't do all of these features and i am agree with mr Chriz panel and some other are more  a developement thing.
Theater view is really better in xmbc or some good others but i think MC is not so bad at all and XMBC or medio etc are maid with theater view in mind not in MC.
Theater view in MC14 was an option a bonus but it growing and we just need to be very patient i think for have a real very good Theater view.
It seems that MC team is very active now in Theater view.

[Media Freak]

Hi ,there's some good ideas but for know the engine can't do all of these features and i am agree with mr Chriz panel and some other are more  a developement thing.
Theater view is really better in xmbc or some good others but i think MC is not so bad at all and XMBC or medio etc are maid with theater view in mind not in MC.
Theater view in MC14 was an option a bonus but it growing and we just need to be very patient i think for have a real very good Theater view.
It seems that MC team is very active now in Theater view.

You maybe right kurushi. Possibly the MC team didn't build it to be a major force in the front end market but since it has a Theater view then it doesn't hurt trying to improve it. Well, at the end we all can say we tried, at least :-)
As illustrated above, MC already have many of the component to build upon and improve. I think it's two situations with the current Theater view. One situation maybe easy to work with, and I think it has to do with aesthetic... pretty much the look of MC's Theater View. We all can agree that there has to be room for improvement, no matter how hard it is to code the front end. The other situation which maybe harder to make a reality, is the easy way for skinners and programmers who code these plugins to integrate them in the front end.

Think about one of the best plugin available for MC, the Advanced Track Info plugin which actually does half of the job already by pulling info from Lastfm, We'd need a similar plugin for movies and TV shows which could be build upon the same code structure of the Advanced Track Info but would be pulling infro IMDB or the likes. IMO, I think there's hope if the MC team decide to open the engine a bit more.

[HTPC4ME]

^^^^^^^^^^Amen^^^^^^^^^^

[kurushi]

Hi i am perfectly agree with you that MC can do all of this things but all this info can be add at this time for skinners we can add some catégories(i think )just look some works of gappie but not all can be done due to skining engine.I have noticed weather info etc but it's not easy  to add in an other page this widget i think due to the limitation of the skinning engine for know.
I agree mc 'll can be all of this easylly.
I plan to make a Theater view skin but i wait because it seems that Theater view is growing at now and i haven't so much time.
So for now colours ,pictures ressources even the animated background can be easily changed but new panel etc ....:/
Anyway good screenshot i hope MC team will look at this

[tcman41]

Well, the intention is noble but I rather keep doing what I am right now, thats MC14 on my media server computer upstairs on a acer 22" lcd for tagging and importing all my media and then using XMBC as the front end on my three big screen HDTV's in the house.

I think having one software do everything would be a little much, also not everyone wants to spend a lot of time reading smaller print and organization thousands of pieces of media in front of a 52" HDTV, I'd rather do it as described above, just my opinion.

TC

[kurushi]

Just to rewatched the screenshots and i think it's the perfect player!All is here^^

[rick.ca]

Think about one of the best plugin available for MC, the Advanced Track Info plugin which actually does half of the job already by pulling info from Lastfm, We'd need a similar plugin for movies and TV shows which could be build upon the same code structure of the Advanced Track Info but would be pulling info IMDB or the likes. IMO, I think there's hope if the MC team decide to open the engine a bit more.

This topic, like many before it, illustrate a wide range in the way MC is used, and therefore in expectations about how Theatre View should work. When I consider the primary purpose is to display the information already in my database, it's clear it's doing a commendable job. If information is not being added to the database in the first place, it's a bit much to expect this to fixed by Theatre View. On the other hand, I agree it would be nice if additional information available on the web were more accessible. I do not think it makes any sense to try to turn it into some kind of web portal. Browsers are much better tools for that. I'd much prefer some kind of embedded browser that could display web pages that are readable at 10' and which provides some means of navigation by remote. It's not that difficult—I do this with Firefox now. I would expect the same links functionality as is currently available in Standard View—so I could jump to one of any number of different websites for information about the selected file. Having done so, I could go wherever I like in the browser view, or return to the library view.

I'm not sure how these things work, but I'd be shocked to learn that things like a personalized Lastfm or an Advanced Track Info-like thing could not be implemented easily as a custom webpage. I'd much rather those sorts of things be available in exactly the same manner as external webpages anyway. And while not as slick as a custom skin, the custom web page would be completely open—easy to share and modify, even by those of us with little technical background.

All this being said, I have no objection to things being more open (whatever that means) so it's easier to add plugins and customize skins. But I don't think that's going to do much for the primary objective of displaying the information already in the database. To illustrate... I've already maintain a rather large set of meta data for video (all automatically imported by PvdImport). All that is nicely displayed in Theatre View. In setting that up, I've already decided what information I want maintained in my database versus that which will be left out and accessed from the web on an as needed basis. I rarely need the latter, but when I do, by its very nature, I need a flexible tool like a browser to find the additional information I seek. Anything that "would be pulling info IMDb or the likes"—even if feasible (probably not, but this has been discussed at length elsewhere)—is going to include anything I don't already have.

[Daydream]

MC14 on my media server computer upstairs on a acer 22" lcd for tagging and importing all my media and then using XMBC as the front end on my three big screen HDTV's in the house.

What are you talking about? That can't be, except for audio files, which in XBMC land is kind of a 'done and over it' not the main focus of development like with MC. Otherwise there is no database to database link and no nfo to sidecar connection unless you whipped together a program to transform the tags (which granted can be done in one day).

Me, I would say that while mockups are fun, you end up just with that - fun. If anything real would happen we (devs and users) need to agree on certain things. Concepts first. Design maybe second. Implementation third. And so on. Realities. So, in no particular order, over-simplified...

Between MC and the rest there are some very different concepts at work. On some MC wins hands down. On some it doesn't (but maybe the devs would argue that). Small things, things that don't hit you over there head right away with their importance. You wanna put a new button on MC's roller. Tools - Theater view - Items to show - zillion of options. Do that in XBMC, try plugging a 'Music Video' button on the main menu. You'd need to know to write skin code dude, no small task.

Design. There is a certain difference in design that is screamingly obvious between MC and the rest (was touched on even on this thread). The displaying of text. It's big, clear, maybe more that 33% redundant in MC so that even people with -5 glasses can read it without glasses. Somewhere else the idea is that posters/coverart for movies/music albums tell enough to be able to locate the item, and space can be used with medium to small text to describe the item (metadata). Once one realizes how many options this switch allows, it's a game changer.

Implementation. Well, actually I'm thinking about this from an economics angle not who will write the code. Probably we could use some more transparency from JRiver on this one. Like was said above I don't think Theater View was put together to go head to head with certain other implementation of 10ft interfaces. Can it do that if its developed? Most sure. But like I said in one of my colorful posts before, it might need "aggressive developing". I'm no programmer so this is rather in good humor: if JRiver needs to develop further Theater View to take on new concepts and design (and as painful as that sounds I'm afraid that will mean rewrite Theater View) for 2 months before even something can be released to, say, Betateam, and another 2 months before some kind of structure with big bugs fixed can be released to the public to test their skinning abilities, and another 2 months until it can be kind of said 'OK we have something stable to build upon in the future', that's 6 months. There is a sheer number of reasons why they won't do this, starting with pride in current accomplishments (understandable) to being something that doesn't add up in terms of time, energy and last but not least, financial resources used.

My point: If I stick with my being a user POV, in an ultimately-everybody-cares-only-about-themselves scenario, I could hammer at JRiver on technical grounds why something is not what it should be in a never-ending loop. In an absolutely balanced scenario - which is an utopia if you think about it - I could argue the situation both ways (users and devs).

And advanced skin in XBMC takes 3 to 6 months to create, being developed by a team. Some have been in development for more than 2 years. That is the skin, not the code base that allows skinning. JRiver, can we have the same by tomorrow?... Although in all fairness we opened the discussion a year ago.

@Rick (since you were posting as I was writing this)
I agree that now we are much better in terms of metadata retrieval than we were a year ago. In my opinion displaying it is the crux of all things. You, me, the next guy with terabytes arrays - we have so much media, that rapidly seeing what is what from the pile of bits and bytes and fields behind - that's the main thing. There is absolutely no way in hell that you, me and the next guy will agree on how that should be presented. Which means we need... everybody take a guess

[rick.ca]

There is absolutely no way in hell that you, me and the next guy will agree on how that should be presented.

I agree. This is why I so much appreciate the fact at least the file info aspect of it is fully configurable. Maybe it's not a fair judgment, but I got the impression OP has not even looked at this capability. And I'm not trying to suggest the same flexibility extends to the more visual aspects of Theatre View. I don't fully understand what's feasible and what's not in that realm, but I wonder if there are not plenty of incremental improvements that can be made—without having to scrap the entire architecture.

Or to turn this around... There's no way in hell anyone is going to be able to create a plugin or skin I'm going to be completely happy with. And I'm unable to do such things on my own, even if the software were "open" enough to allow this. So I'm not inclined to believe development in this direction should be of any interest to me.

[Media Freak]

Ahhh!! see? from the time I started this thread to the time MC15 was released, you guys can see that a few of the features I've mentioned in here, made their way to the program; Even some features you guys thought were not feasible. Although, MC15 still not as neat as I'd like but I'd say JimH and crew either took notice or was already working on implementing some of these features. Either way, I'm happy to see MC moving closer to what I believe is a great modern Media Center program.

Check this out, now Theater View is not just a blank black screen, it has an image. However, there has yet a an option to change it. I can't see why they'd not allow the user to add his/her own image. That's the great value of options to change because at some point, the same background gets boring and the ability to change it, gives a user more reason to use and play with the program. Quite frankly, if one image can be added, then more than one can be inserted and rotated locally with an option to set a location in one's HD to save the add/save/delete image files that are to be rotated.
MC15 do rotate the images after you click on let's say Audio but no one have access or even know what directory this image is. Also, the images should switch as the user is browsing the home menu of Theater View, not after the fact when the user goes in the specific library.

Another situation that needs a fix, still related to the images that MC15 is pulling. When an artist is played through Theater View and it's toggle to Info, the images are pulled online, I'm assuming they're pulled from Google Images... that's fine, but why not give the ability to add mine (an online/local content wouldn't hurt)? A small con about Google Images is that it just pulled any images that may have the name of the artist being played but the images being displayed has nothing to do with the artist sometimes.

And, did you guys also noticed the Panel toggle in and out in Cover View and Video files now have pop-up with the covers and metadata? Ahh!! I had these also in the mock-ups below. The truth is a lot of things we think that MC can't become, it actually can... whenever the developers digg in, put in some work and add them.

Question: In Standard View, we're able to change the size of the covers. Do you guys think it's a hard task to allow the cover size and what info to add under them in Theater View? Honestly, I'd be happy if Cover View just as it is, was to be a toggle view option in Theater View.

I'm not sure if posting a new thread in the requests section would help but I'll give it a shot.

[HTPC4ME]

i really LOVE the playing now when listening to music and it pulls all the artist that is playing now pictures that is so awesome! and fast.. i just wish we could be in theaterview bigscreen play music and instead of using visualizations we could choose for it to show us artists pictures from the net like it does in playing now!

[Media Freak]

playing now pictures that is so awesome! and fast..

It's definitely "awesome" but I wanna have the ability to add mine. Right now, there are thousands of 720p and 1020p quality fan art available for music, movies and TV shows so I'd like to make use of them too in MC. The main background in the home page of Theater view should be able to rotate and change with an option of every 5, 10, 15 seconds depending on a user's choice.

[Ekpen]

Greetings:

MC 16-- when will this skin project for theatre view be integrated in to MC16?
I wrote to you about this before?

Can this also be used for theatre view in a Droid set up within MC?

Thanks.
Ekpen

[jroyale]

I started a thread just today about making mc look like xmbc.  As I said in that thread I won't be moving to it simply because of the way in which you can organize and view your media is so far superior in mc however the look of xmbc is simply off the charts.

I think you will find a trend of users are moving towards HTPC and using theatre view as their main view screen now that smaller quieter machines can play HD without a hitch.

If the development team would rather focus on other aspects, then maybe they can open it up to the communicty to come up without a lights out theatre view skin.

[HTPC4ME]

+1

where is this thread, so i can watch it. thanks!