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Replaygain Values for FLAC files
vagskal:
Thanks for the reply!
--- Quote from: Alex B on August 13, 2009, 02:30:05 am ---The tags are separate and the correction is automatic in both directions in order to make the tags fully compatible.
[...]
The new implementation including tag writing is fully compatible.
--- End quote ---
Sorry for being a bit slow but could you please clarify what you mean by compatible. Will RPG values calculated by MC and written to the tags be the same as if they had been calculated and written by, say, dBpoweramp with a target volume of 89dB?
--- Quote from: Alex B on August 13, 2009, 02:30:05 am ---There is slight difference in the album gain system because MC calculates the album gain values dynamically from the track gain values and doesn't need the album gain file tag, but MC does not change or remove existing album gain values.
--- End quote ---
If MC is used to calculate RPG, will no album gain tag be written to the file by MC?
Alex B:
--- Quote from: vagskal on August 13, 2009, 02:58:50 am ---Thanks for the reply!
Sorry for being a bit slow but could you please clarify what you mean by compatible. Will RPG values calculated by MC and written to the tags be the same as if they had been calculated and written by, say, dBpoweramp with a target volume of 89dB?
--- End quote ---
Yes. (Some decimal digits may slightly differ because each implementation uses its own code, but the target level is 89 dB.)
--- Quote ---If MC is used to calculate RPG, will no album gain tag be written to the file by MC?
--- End quote ---
Yes.
vagskal:
--- Quote from: Alex B on August 13, 2009, 03:34:41 am ---Yes. (Some decimal digits may slightly differ because each implimentation uses its own code, but the target level is 89 dB.)
Yes.
--- End quote ---
Thanks again for clarifying this!
The first answer was encouraging, but the second was not.
May I put forward a feature request to write also album gain values to the tags (mp3 and flac) when MC is calculating RPG. Other software, such as SqueezeCenter, depends on the album gain tag for "correct" playback between albums.
Alex B:
Here's a thread from the distant past:
Topic & link: Album Gain Solution (FEEDBACK WANTED)
--- Quote from: Matt on January 29, 2004, 11:59:05 am ---Replay Gain breaks a song into chunks, analyzes their volume, sorts those chunks by volume, then says "hey, the 95% loudest chunk is the reference for that file." Then, during playback, you compare the reference marks of the different files and adjust the volumes accordingly.
Album Gain does the same thing, except it thinks of albums as one giant song. That means it takes the 95% loudest chunk of the whole album for the reference mark.
Using Album Gain makes it so albums that have tracks that are supposed to be quiet actually are quiet.
Both types of gains have their place. Currently MC doesn't support Album Gain.
The solution I'm proposing is for MC to calculate the Album Gain from the Replay Gain of the tracks on the albums. This requires no extra analysis and avoids the GUI pitfalls of forcing full albums to analyze together.
The Album Gain could be calculated as the loudest track Replay Gain from all the tracks on the album. A more elaborate calculation scheme could also be employed. (weighted averaging based on volume and duration, etc.)
It seems to me like this would work equally well as calculating the files again. Replay Gain isn't an exact science, and the difference between the two methods would only be a few tenths of a decimal. Neither method would really be more correct -- just different.
So, would this make those pining for Album Gain completely happy?
Thanks for any feedback.
--- End quote ---
The linked thread might help to understand why MC calculates the album gain values dynamically from the track gain values.
And here's one of my not so old replies:
Topic & link: Flac and Replay Gain
--- Quote from: Alex B on January 12, 2009, 11:37:35 am ---This was fixed in a very elegant way in the MP3 input plugin. The current plugin can read the old proprietary tags, but it writes tags that conform the de facto standard, including the +6 dB correction (and the -6 dB correction when the new tags are read).
The only part that is still missing from the "de facto" MP3 replay gain tags is the album gain part (= the album gain and the album peak tags).
The JRiver programs calculate the album gain value dynamically by averaging the track gain values. The album peak value is not stored separately in the library.
Most, if not all, other programs analyze the complete album as a single track in addition to analyzing the individual tracks. The resulting values are stored in the replaygain_album_gain and replaygain_album_peak tags.
I have suggested how the album gain part could be handled:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=38695.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=45465.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=45711.0
--- End quote ---
vagskal:
Thanks, Alex B, for the pointers. You really do know the forums, the application and the tags. It is a blessing for us new users that you combine that with patience and a very helpful attitude.
Of course I fully support the ideas you put forward for handling the album gain issue. I would like to use MC for as many tasks as possible, but until MC can write "standard" album gain tags I cannot use MC to calculate RPG.
I am afraid a quick fix meaning that MC just wrote the album gain value calculated by MC to the "standard" album gain tag would not satisfy me. I imported the album gain tag for mp3 files into MC and compared the values with what MC had calculated as album gain (taking into account the 6 dB difference) and in some instances there was a difference of several (at least 3 or 4) dB, when the track gain varied much in an album.
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