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Zevele, what do you see?

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JimH:
[moved from Lucy's thread by JimH -- worth a thread of its own]

To Zevelle
I want to add to my above post that I appreciate the information from you on many subjects but most especially on the situation in Israel. It was quite a surprise to see you write that you find it safer in Israel than you did in Paris. That seems amazing!!

In any event I hope you will continue to be safe and live long.

Thanks also to MachineHead and Charlemagne 8 for your contributions.

Holden


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zevele10 07-06-2002 07:51:37 A.M.

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I feel safer here than in Paris in my everyday life
There is a hight scholl who has a program with LA scholl in the US
Despite the situation,many young americans jews been here few months ago
It is a program for well-of familys
You need to have a room for the young from US and a room for the parents if the want to come here the last week of the stage
Not a surprise if i tell you we got a lot on TV and Newspapers about it
13\14 years old us kids just amazed to go out ALONE[without the parents] to coffee,movies, partys ,discos
Parents of this kids amazed to walk on the beach promenade,have a drink at one o'clock in the morning,all of it 100% trouble free

Ask my nephews[who live in France] about they all night out at 12-13-14 years old
I just took them and friends of them with my car to the place,gave them money for entrance,drinks and way back with a taxi.
I did only what everyone is doing here.

Of cause when there is a bomb at the entrance of a disco one friday night-like few months ago- ,reading the list of the victims look very stange: X 13 years old-D&T 14-K 15 and so on
I am not sure but possible it was a disco for people UP TO 16
Older than this,you do not get admission
When i go to the bank,i sit on a chair,in front of the worker and we do what i want.No protection.
You are never attacked ,rob in the street.
At 3 o'clock in the morning,you can take money from a machine,no one -like in Paris-will try to steal you.Killing you for $20,as i saw when still in France

All the kind of clock for water[with the numbers on it for the bill] with the tap are outside,the same for all the gaz bottles

In France,idiots will clause your water non stop ,and will stole your gaz bottles

On the top of it half of the population have guns.Soldiers for one have to keep they weapon[not a gun ,but Uzzi or bigger] with them no matter when and where
To see boys doing pogo with a Uzzi on they side at concert leave voice less the first time you see it,trust me.A lot of civilian have guns or bigger.I mean they cary it.You can see dad with is Uzzy,kids at the super market,and there is no incident.

Of cause,the country is not 100% free of crime
But ,yes the israeli society is a safe one

The unsafe part of our lifes is an external one


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MachineHead 07-06-2002 08:09:46 A.M.

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>>>> The unsafe part of our lifes is an external one

JimH:
[Machinehead's post, moved here.]

zevele,
Here is the scenario I see. Because of the constant threat to Isreali society, people are armed. Required? I don't know, you have to answer that one. In any case, if Isreal were not under this black cloud, would the people still be armed? And, feel as safe as now?

In the USA, people are allowed to own and keep firearms. With major restrictions placed on them. Here, you do not see the average Joe walking down the street with Uzi's and Desert Eagles strapped onto them. This is because we are not under the same constant threats as the people of Isreal. Here, there are threats of course, but not even close to those experienced on a daily basis there. Even with the possibility of getting murdered in the street here, people still don't necessarily take out ol' trusty and carry it with them everyday. The USA still prefers, and for good reason I suspect, to let trained law enforcement handle any problems. So, you can see, while we feel safe in some respects, there are other problems here that would make one leary to let junior out alone for the evening.

Now, if the entire country were to be armed because of National threats, I wouldn't doubt that the crime rates here would drop dramatically. Afterall, if everyone is loaded for bear, who is going to be stupid enough to try and take you out? Again, this is only a hypothetical situation. I'd rather not have to worry about packing some heat. Probably wouldn't look good with the casual attire that some many of us enjoy anyway. Militant look went out with the Punk scene years ago.


This is why I ask if there were no threats (on a National level ) such as here, do you think you would still have as safe a society as you have now?

peleton:
I would tend to agree with Zevele in that it is not necessarily just the fact that everyone is armed to the teath that makes it a (relatively) safe society.  There is also an element of social attitude.

Here in Perth (Australia) it is illegal to have a gun. -I think perhaps you can own a gun -but only if you are a farmer and need use it for rural purposes, or are a member of a pistol-club. In both cases the gun must be licensed for that purpose, and in the case of the gun-club you must leave the gun at the club. -Oh and even in these cases any thing like a pump-action or semi-automatic (or better) is illegal, it is quite strict.

(I am not 100% on these laws so other Aussies feel free to correct me).

My point is that you pretty much never see guns and yet the climate (social) is very similar to what Zev described in Israel.  I don't know about 12year olds staying out all night, but we certainly do have underage disco's like Zev described. -I think they shut at midnight or something.

Obviously over here population would certainly be a factor.-For example I here people saying things like "it's not as safe in Sydney". (comments from anyone in Sydney? -or Melbourne?)

just my $0.02

peleton.

zevele1:
First what i said IS NOT that the society is safe because a lot of people have weapons
I toke the fact that ,with so many weapons,there is not incident with weapons involved as a proof of how the society is safe.

Now ,here is Israel,it is illegal to have a gun without licence.A lot of people are armed for security raisons.ONLY THIS RAISON.If full peace they will have to give back they guns

As someone doing decoration job in the Tel-aviv aera.I WILL NEVER GET A LICENCE for a gun
So ,who has a weapon?
-soldiers when they have short breaks-like a week-end-they stay in uniform with they weapon all the break.Ready to go to the front line in no time if needed
If they have a week or 2 weeks break,they are not in uniform,they do not have they weapon with them

-People living inside the green line.They take it when traveling.
Speaking about personal experience,if you take your Uzzy to travel from Jordan valley to Tel-Aviv ,when in town ,YOU DO NOT LEAVE IT IN THE CAR-If stolen or lost you are in very bery very big troubles.
So you take it with you

_workers: bus drivers of some lines-delivery man driving near or througth palestinien places-people from phone ,electricity compagny when they have to work in dangerous place[if they spend they day in Tel-Aviv,they do not have a gun]

-the nice guy you have coffee with every morning,the nice guy sitting near you in the Tel-Aviv\New York fly,many others nice guy and nice women by the way.But this one ,you do not know they have a gun.
Like the one who killed the terrorist in Los Angeless airport

And some people who are part of the head of the 'passive defense'

NONE OF THIS PEOPLE ARE HERE TO ACT INSTEAD OF THE POLICE

Sure,if i waiting at the bus station and i see a car comming full speed to the bus station ,i mean straight away to the bus station,if i have a gun,i shout the driver
If i see a terrorist attacking people with a knife or axe,i shout him

But,unlike in USA, here no one fell like a Tarzan,a Superman or a Sheriff because he has a gun
And no one can ever think about to shoot someone stealing his car.
We have guns because it can help.But we will give them back to the State with no problem if not needed

Beside this,again unlike USA ,anyone spend 3 years in the army and know how to use a weapon and know it is not a tool

So,if peace,only few people would have weapons.But there is no links
betewn safe and guns
Guns are to use against the enemy,not inside your own society

And if in USA from next week,every one has a gun,i move there...as a grave digger i will make millions dollars

zevele1:
Safe or not?

When i am in London ,i feel really safe,I really mean it,i am serious when i say it

People in London tell me i'am crazy,London is very dangerous and so on

But when i say it i speak as someone living in Paris for years.
And yes London is safe if you compare to Paris

So, safe,safer all is in the reference you take from the start.

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