Topic: Thinking of Win 7 (Read 4535 times)

boydn · « **on:** October 30, 2009, 03:10:19 am »

I built a new HTPC about a month ago and put Vista Home Prem on it. Came with a upgrade to Win 7. I got it last weekend and am wondering if it's safe to upgrade.
Do u guys know of any problems that I may run into? The box is only used for MC and Media center records on a HDhomerun.
Any input?
Thanks

That's the main thing but, since I'm here. The main computer is XP. Will I need to backup and do a complete install for Xp?
Thanks again

MrHaugen · « **Reply #1 on:** October 30, 2009, 05:05:53 am »

Go for it Boydn! Win 7 just works. Most applications and codecs runs great. Most works better than it used to. I don't think you'll run into anything that Win 7 can't handle. I'm running Win 7 64 Bit, and have had zero problems! When I used to run XP I always had some sort of problems when installing MC, decoders, filters and make it all work. There's just no reason not to go 64 bit any more imo.

If you're to upgrade a XP machine I would take a backup and do a total reinstall (format). I'd do that for Vista as well if I were you! Upgrades have never been trustworthy.

prod · « **Reply #2 on:** October 30, 2009, 05:12:07 am »

Plenty of problems with various wireless network adapters at the moment, don't assume everything will just work.

boydn · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2009, 05:30:25 am »

Thanks to both of u. Think I may give it a shot this weekend. The 1st machine really has nothing on it. Will just be setting up the tuners again. Think I may order a 3pk family upgrade today for the other machines.
Next, What on earth are u doing up this time of day?
Thanks again

MrHaugen · « **Reply #4 on:** October 30, 2009, 05:39:15 am »

Quote from: prod on October 30, 2009, 05:12:07 am

Plenty of problems with various wireless network adapters at the moment, don't assume everything will just work.

Off-course, you CAN find a few driver problems. But it have little to do with Win 7 it self. Look up the drivers available for your hardware. If there is Vista support, there is a very high chance it works for Win 7 as well. The driver architecture is very similar to Vista.

The time is 11 am in Norway. I'm usually at work this time a day

boydn · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2009, 05:45:37 am »

I saw u were in Norway after I posted. It's was 0430 in the Am here when I posted. Passing time waiting to get off work.

prod · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:08:11 am »

Quote from: MrHaugen on October 30, 2009, 05:39:15 am

Off-course, you CAN find a few driver problems. But it have little to do with Win 7 it self. Look up the drivers available for your hardware. If there is Vista support, there is a very high chance it works for Win 7 as well. The driver architecture is very similar to Vista.

I've read similar advice, but don't believe everything you read... some stuff doesn't yet have drivers, some stuff has drivers but they don't work. Some drivers work, but only on x86, some drivers work (oddly) with <=2gb mem, but not >2gb mem.

Just back your boot drive up and try it out I guess...

tcman41 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:07:27 am »

Huh, I have been running Windows 7 for months now, it is on my htpc that i built, it serves my music and movies to my HDTV downstairs, havent had one problem yet.

TC

maxxsid · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2009, 03:05:46 pm »

I've been playing with W7 for a couple of weeks now... And no... I don't like it.
It's shiny, it works, it's not as annoying as Vista, it seems to be stable and has most of the drivers (couldn't find my X10 remote USB receiver - I installed an old XP driver and it worked).
Anyway, for an HTPC or a server one needs an OS which just does the job, not shows itself off. That's what W7 is - a show off.
MHO, of course.
XP is very stable and reliable. It has a relatively small footprint.
Clean install of W7 takes up 11GB of space! Takes more computing resources than XP too.
I personally will stick with XP until it stops working with new/coming hardware.
I'd move to Linux if MC ran on it..

--max

MrHaugen · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2009, 06:31:04 pm »

Quote from: maxxsid on October 30, 2009, 03:05:46 pm

Anyway, for an HTPC or a server one needs an OS which just does the job, not shows itself off. That's what W7 is - a show off.
MHO, of course.
XP is very stable and reliable. It has a relatively small footprint.
Clean install of W7 takes up 11GB of space! Takes more computing resources than XP too.
I personally will stick with XP until it stops working with new/coming hardware.

Sure. XP is pretty stable, but I do believe W7 is better. It's better in the terms that the problems you might get, can be fixed fast. For XP it's either hours of problem solving and clean up, or there is the option of reinstalling. W7 either prevents most of this, or fixes it without any problems.

Don't get me wrong. I do agree with you that for a HTPC with MC running mostly Theater View, there's not much need of the W7 functions right now. At least not for me. But there might be one day. One thing is the multi touch feature. Another thing is the way W7 handles remote desktop connections now. I have not tested it my self yet, but you're supposed to be able to use remote connections even if you're in theater View (using directx or what ever). That do not work with XP. This would be a huge advantage if you have a library SERVER, and want to control the HTPC via a laptop.

So, when you have a free, or very affordable price for a upgrade from Vista to W7, I for one would not hesitate if your hardware is supported.

maxxsid · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2009, 07:19:34 pm »

Don't get me wrong either.. : ) but how W7 can be different in terms of "problems"? I am for one don't have much with XP (none I'd say).
And I don't see how W7 would "fix" anything for me. Not even coffee.
Anyhoo... Doesn't really matter what runs underneath. Resources are cheap these days. 11GB of OS space on a $60 1TB hard drive? It's nothing.
On the other hand, everyone seemed to hate Vista. And now, M$ simplifies UAC, makes a new taskbar and everyone is cheering. It's just a face-lift and a bloat to me. Where's the promised new file system?

Quote from: MrHaugen on October 30, 2009, 06:31:04 pm

Sure. XP is pretty stable, but I do believe W7 is better. It's better in the terms that the problems you might get, can be fixed fast. For XP it's either hours of problem solving and clean up, or there is the option of reinstalling. W7 either prevents most of this, or fixes it without any problems.

Don't get me wrong. I do agree with you that for a HTPC with MC running mostly Theater View, there's not much need of the W7 functions right now. At least not for me. But there might be one day. One thing is the multi touch feature. Another thing is the way W7 handles remote desktop connections now. I have not tested it my self yet, but you're supposed to be able to use remote connections even if you're in theater View (using directx or what ever). That do not work with XP. This would be a huge advantage if you have a library SERVER, and want to control the HTPC via a laptop.

So, when you have a free, or very affordable price for a upgrade from Vista to W7, I for one would not hesitate if your hardware is supported.

danrien · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2009, 07:26:43 pm »

Quote from: maxxsid on October 30, 2009, 07:19:34 pm

Don't get me wrong either.. : ) but how W7 can be different in terms of "problems"? I am for one don't have much with XP (none I'd say).
And I don't see how W7 would "fix" anything for me. Not even coffee.
Anyhoo... Doesn't really matter what runs underneath. Resources are cheap these days. 11GB of OS space on a $60 1TB hard drive? It's nothing.
On the other hand, everyone seemed to hate Vista. And now, M$ simplifies UAC, makes a new taskbar and everyone is cheering. It's just a face-lift and a bloat to me. Where's the promised new file system?

A lot of the bloat from Vista got removed (for example, Windows Live isn't installed by default), and it takes up fewer resources. In fact, the benefit of 7 is it has the innovative features of Vista (Aero, WDM, keeping the user in user mode instead of by default putting them in admin mode) without the bloat of Vista. I think you will find the resource usage (not counting HD space usage) of 7 is very similar XP, while having a superior UI and feature set.

maxxsid · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2009, 07:55:34 pm »

Superior UI is subjective and in the case of HTPC or a server is largely irrelevant.
But could you please enlighten me on the superior feature set (apart form UI and touchscreen support)?
No, really, I want to like the 7. I installed and use it but all I want now is to go back to XP or at least make W7 look like XP...
Thanks!
--max

Quote from: danrien on October 30, 2009, 07:26:43 pm

A lot of the bloat from Vista got removed (for example, Windows Live isn't installed by default), and it takes up fewer resources. In fact, the benefit of 7 is it has the innovative features of Vista (Aero, WDM, keeping the user in user mode instead of by default putting them in admin mode) without the bloat of Vista. I think you will find the resource usage (not counting HD space usage) of 7 is very similar XP, while having a superior UI and feature set.

danrien · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:25:41 pm »

Aero, WDM, keeping the user in user mode instead of by default putting them in admin mode. A lot if it is under the hood and was actually implemented in Vista. Also, I really do suggest giving the 7 interface sometime - the new taskbar's management of your applications (running and not running) is really superior to Vista and before - they borrowed a lot conceptually from the much acclaimed OSX dock, but maintained what kept the original Windows taskbar present for so long. From the HTPC end, I know this is perhaps taboo to say on these message boards, but WMC is really great - Microsoft frankly hit it out of the park there. Everything just works and I don't have to worry about it.

As far as servers go, I suppose a little more specificity would be required there - what kind of server? Is it a headless server? A media server?

As for file-sharing, the normal file-sharing works as well as it did in Vista, as in I don't have any of the problems as I had in XP sharing files (network shares sometimes working/sometimes not working, file transfers quitting mid way).

MrHaugen · « **Reply #14 on:** October 31, 2009, 05:48:43 am »

There's also the thing that W7 are better at keeping the registry settings seperated, and are better at removing everything on uninstall. That makes the computer running better over time. You don't have to reinstall the OS after 6 months any more if you test a lot of apps.

IF there is a malfunction in W7, in the case of driver malfunction or application incompatibility, W7 often find the solution for this problems and even tells you where to get the fix. If there is a trouble with your network it often finds solution for this as well.

The jump tasks in W7 is also a very nice feature, and when MC implements this, I'm sure I'd use it plenty. Again, maybe not for my HTPC, but my other workstations.

I don't really need all of the W7 functions on a HTCP my self, but I really do believe that as time passes I will have to reinstall my HTPC much less than I did with XP. That's enough of a reason to me.

danrien · « **Reply #15 on:** November 01, 2009, 06:00:42 pm »

I agree with everything you said, Mr. Haugens. From personal experience, every computer I sold while Windows Vista was out, I would get asked the proverbial question, "Should I get Vista or XP?". Reluctantly, I would say yes, not because I knew their user experience would improve in the short term, but because I knew it would decrease support problems due to the security enhancements. However, now when I get asked that question about 7, I can't enthusiastically enough recommend it. Given a week or two of using the new interface I'm pretty convinced almost anyone will come to appreciate the changes.

maxxsid · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2009, 01:39:09 am »

Ha! Just had this - after a cold boot (from OFF state) to W7, started MC14, tried to start playback and MC crashed! And it would crash every time I would try to do anything in MC. Well, after a reboot MC was fine but just in a few minutes W7 itself crashed on a simple window resize, not totally though - it froze for a while, refreshed the desktop and gave me a message that there was a problem with my video driver. I mean, c'mon, I don't really see how W7 can be sooo stable if it just came out of the beta phase.
I am not bashing here just don't understand all the excitement and admiration around W7.

Anyhow, having said all this, I'll be receiving an SSD drive soon where I intend to install W7 and use it as my main OS on my main desktop (not HTPC).

Cheerz,
--max

MrHaugen · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2009, 01:55:02 am »

I think you just pulled the short straw then. Most feedback of Windows 7 is overwhelmingly positive. Some people with driver problems do not share this view... This might also be a little based on the previous disappointment (for some), called Vista.

Let's look at it another way. If that driver problem had been there in XP, do you really think it would recover all by it self?? The product have just been released. Some companies are lazy, or just not interested in keeping less popular products up to date. Offcourse there are hardware drivers out there that have not yet been optimized yet. It's pretty amazing how many are though.

maxxsid · « **Reply #18 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:02:21 am »

Ok-ok.. I give up!
At least we agree on one thing - Vista is bad.
(I never actually installed/used it - saw it quickly on a new laptop and replaced it with XP)

Quote from: MrHaugen on November 06, 2009, 01:55:02 am

I think you just pulled the short straw then. Most feedback of Windows 7 is overwhelmingly positive. Some people with driver problems do not share this view... This might also be a little based on the previous disappointment (for some), called Vista.

Let's look at it another way. If that driver problem had been there in XP, do you really think it would recover all by it self?? The product have just been released. Some companies are lazy, or just not interested in keeping less popular products up to date. Offcourse there are hardware drivers out there that have not yet been optimized yet. It's pretty amazing how many are though.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #19 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:35:35 am »

Quote from: maxxsid on November 06, 2009, 02:02:21 am

Ok-ok.. I give up!

He he. Good

You'd never win anyway. I'm really a Microsoft "agent", as we like to call our self. Hired by this the glorious company, to promote their products in a positive way, all over the Internet! When I think of it, I'm DOUBLE agent actually, as I do the same things for J River as well. Just a shame I've not received the outfit and gadgets that Sam Fisher in Splinter Cell has..... Yet. *Hint Hint*

maxxsid · « **Reply #20 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:41:40 am »

but at the same time you not always believe what you're saying

MrHaugen · « **Reply #21 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:48:51 am »

Yea. That happens..... but if others believe it, I'm all good though.

prod · « **Reply #22 on:** November 06, 2009, 05:42:16 am »

Quote from: MrHaugen on November 06, 2009, 01:55:02 am

Most feedback of Windows 7 is overwhelmingly positive.

Groupthink. Much like the overwhelmingly negative feedback from Vista. The IT community love extremes.

Though, I do like Windows 7, a bit. The taskbar is nice, and the library stuff in explorer. I suppose you could say I'm underwhelmingly positive. I've tried, and failed, to get it working nicely with all my stuff - whereas Vista works just fine. Figure. $:-\$

maxxsid · « **Reply #23 on:** November 07, 2009, 07:19:30 pm »

Well.. received my SSD. Installed a fresh copy of W7 Ultimate 64. Installation went smoothly. Downloaded/installed all W7 updates. Started installing applications. Installed: NOD32, Acronis True Image, Program Launcher. At this point W7 gave me a BSOD and wasn't able to boot back into UI no more (safe mode didn't work either). I am back to XP. : ( :

aussie1 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 08, 2009, 04:38:47 am »

I migrated all of my machines from XP and vista to Windows 7 with no problems - most of the 3rd party drivers for my devices were already in the OS. I find Windows 7 to be more stable and to run faster than either of the two predecessors. The UI improvements aren't must haves, but I prefer them over the old UIs.

XP was a solid OS. But it is now 10 years old. It is showing its age and is only getting minimal support from MS and 3rd party vendors. Besides, if you have old devices that only work with XP, Windows 7 professional and ultimate versions will run in XP mode for no additional cost using Windows Virtual Machine. This works well and is seamlessly integrated with the rest of the interface.

prod · « **Reply #25 on:** November 08, 2009, 06:00:31 am »

Quote from: aussie1 on November 08, 2009, 04:38:47 am

This works well and is seamlessly integrated with the rest of the interface.

I don't want to appear like I'm picking on Win7, or anyone who likes it, because there are things about it that I like. It appears to run faster on my laptop, and works fine - but I'm not exactly sure if it is actually running faster or merely because it has been suggested to me that it does. Besides, you can see a speed improvement merely by re-installing your current OS, so time may tell.

When it comes to my desktop though, which is only around a year old, it's a different story. I'm sure it's been suggested many times that the XP mode for old devices "works well", but not in my experience. It seems there's a lot of people pronouncing it just works and is better after a limited personal experience. Similarly, I wouldn't pronounce it doesn't work based on my own experience. I guess MS have got their marketing right this time round. Like any OS release, I'd advise wait for it to be out for 6 months to a year before purchasing - or backup your current setup and trial it for a day or so.

aussie1 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 08, 2009, 10:59:17 am »

Win7 was in the public in various builds for nearly a year before MS released it to Manufacturing. MS learned their lesson from the bungled Vista product. My comments are based on more than just a few days of experience with win7 and on many years as an IT consultant to large and small companies, not on marketing hype.

Nevertheless, I can only comment on my experience. If others are having problems, this is good information. There are so many devices on the market that it is inevitable that some will have problems with win7. If this is a worry, waiting 6 months until some service patches have been released is a good idea.

ThoBar · « **Reply #27 on:** November 08, 2009, 07:01:40 pm »

Quote from: aussie1 on November 08, 2009, 10:59:17 am

There are so many devices on the market that it is inevitable that some will have problems with win7. If this is a worry, waiting 6 months until some service patches have been released is a good idea.

If those companies bother to write new drivers (if the company still exists). This was one of the real problems with Vista - lack of vendor adoption.

FWIW, I'm running w7 all of the place on a wide variety of machines, with only one having anything close to a 'real' problem. I've been running RTM since it got released to gold partners, and the RC and Beta prior to that, all in all, I'v found it very stable and fast. - Suprisingly so to be honest.

C.

boydn · « **Reply #28 on:** November 10, 2009, 02:53:23 am »

Ok, I started this mess so, I'll pitch in. After 4-5 days on the three machines everything is running fine. Only issue is an HP scanner that they haven't done drivers for. It is running in compatibility mode.
Life is good so far.

maxxsid · « **Reply #29 on:** November 13, 2009, 02:02:39 am »

Well... I ended up returning SSD (OCZSSD2-1SUM60G Summit 60GB - don't buy it!), suspiciously cheap @ $150, no faster then a 7200 hard drive and it was giving me lots of BSOD's. And I am going back to XP Pro SP3. I do not see any ANY benefits of W7 except for a revamped UI which I don't care about. I'll switch to W7 in a couple of years (when at least one SP will be released and all my favorite software will be supported in 64 bit). I guess, I am old school - I moved to XP from 98 in 2002..

maxxsid · « **Reply #30 on:** November 13, 2009, 02:05:33 am »

This is funny.. My XP runs W7 in VM environment pretty well..

Quote from: aussie1 on November 08, 2009, 04:38:47 am

Windows 7 professional and ultimate versions will run in XP mode for no additional cost using Windows Virtual Machine.

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Author Topic: Thinking of Win 7 (Read 4535 times)