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New speaker DSP in Media Center 14.0.127 [Room Correction]

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BradC:
Re crossover for subwoofer, would it be possible to route the sub channel to a different sound card (or zone). The reason is that I have in the PC a Lynx L22, which is only 2 channel, but high quality. Therefore, I would prefer to use the Lynx, but it doesn't allow the use the of sub with driver level bass management.

I would also like to add another vote for native convolution room correction in MC.

Matt:

--- Quote from: BradC on February 24, 2010, 08:54:31 pm ---Re crossover for subwoofer, would it be possible to route the sub channel to a different sound card (or zone). The reason is that I have in the PC a Lynx L22, which is only 2 channel, but high quality. Therefore, I would prefer to use the Lynx, but it doesn't allow the use the of sub with driver level bass management.

--- End quote ---

That makes sense in your case, but it's really tricky.

Different sound cards can have slightly different clocks and latencies.  It's a tough problem to keep them in step perfectly on the software side.

I can't think of a nice solution, save for upgrading to a card with more channels.  And I wouldn't like that solution either if I already bought a Lynx.

mojave:

--- Quote from: Matt on February 24, 2010, 08:54:07 pm ---I read your old posts again, and there are a lot of suggestions.

One suggestion was to have a cross-over per channel in 'Room Correction', which is a good idea.

Are you also looking for a 2.1 output format in DSP Studio > Output Format?

What else is important?

Thanks.

--- End quote ---

If you don't have bass management in your soundcard drivers, or if these drivers are inadequate, you need bass management for both 2.1 and 5.1/7.1 or any other combo. For example, at my office at work I use a 4.1 system. I don't have room for a center speaker under my monitor. However, I can close my office door and watch part of a movie during my lunch hour. Between my office and home, I need a 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, and 7.1 setting.

Rather than having to switch between these settings, I would prefer to set a crossover for each speaker in Room Correction with a check box for "Subwoofer and Speaker" and then in DSP Studio > Output format having a check box for "Subwoofer." If this is ticked, then bass is routed to the subwoofer using the crossover settings for each speaker. To make things simpler, I would prefer one DSP with a tab for Output Format and a tab for Speaker Settings. I am using AC3 Filter to provide bass management and matrixing (especially 4.1) for me now with both music and movies at my office and at home I can use my soundcard drivers for bass management. You should look at AC3 filter and how it is laid out. I find it very intuitive.

There are many theories on bass management. These theories are often debated/discussed at AVSForum (and other forums, too). I have tried many methods and hope to try many more. The problem with most receivers is that you are limited to using only a certain method. I purchased my DCX2496 primarily so I could try different theories and methods and decide which either sounded best or measured best (not always the same thing).

With the two check boxes I mentioned above and a crossover setting you are able to get more possibilities to try without forcing the user into one method. For example, one theory/method says that in a 2.1 system to run your mains full range and use a subwoofer to supplement the mains below their natural rolloff. To use this you would check both the "Subwoofer and Speaker" box in Room Correction and you would check the Subwoofer box in Speaker Output. If your speakers roll off at 40 Hz, then you would set the crossover for the mains to 40 Hz. Because the "Subwoofers and Speaker" box is checked, the mains still get a full range signal. Because the "Subwoofer" box is checked and a crossover frequency has been selected, the subwoofer gets frequencies filtered with a low pass crossover at 40 Hz. If you wanted more advanced settings, then you could also allow the user to specify what type of crossover and its slope.

Your goal shouldn't be to determine what method is best, but rather provide options so the user can use whatever method he likes.

An easier way to do this (I think it is easier  :)) is to just have a check box that says "Use AC3 Filter for post processing" or "Use FFDShow Audio Decoder for post processing" under Options > Audio. Currently AC3 Filter only supports 5.1 and I have had some problems with ffdshow working right with my settings. I would rather be able to accomplish this with just MC.
 

mojave:

--- Quote from: BradC on February 24, 2010, 08:54:31 pm ---Re crossover for subwoofer, would it be possible to route the sub channel to a different sound card (or zone). The reason is that I have in the PC a Lynx L22, which is only 2 channel, but high quality. Therefore, I would prefer to use the Lynx, but it doesn't allow the use the of sub with driver level bass management.

I would also like to add another vote for native convolution room correction in MC.

--- End quote ---
You can add another L22. Per the Lynx L22 manual:

--- Quote ---More than one Lynx L22 card can be installed in a computer for additional audio
channels. If required, all Lynx L22’s in a computer can be configured to maintain
sample accurate synchronization during digital audio recording and playback.
--- End quote ---
It looks like each card is treated as a separate device so you may still need to use two zones. You may be able to use ffdshow or AC3 Filter to send just the bass frequencies to the second zone. You could also use a VST plugin for each zone with one zone having a high pass filter and the other zone having a low pass filter.

Matt:
Thanks for the details mojave.

How are you wiring your 2.1 and 4.1 systems?  Normally the subwoofer isn't on its own line coming out of the soundcard in 2 and 4 speaker setups.  We haven't focused on 2.1 and 4.1 wiring configurations.

The subwoofer is on its own line for 5.1 and 7.1, and in my opinion, Media Center does a really nice job in these cases.  I especially like the Subclarity filter to remove drones and leave thumps on the subwoofer line.  I'm not sure what more we would do here except for your idea to filter bass off other speakers (although I personally prefer letting the speaker's natural rolloff work)

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