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[YannisA]

As Windows 7 seems to have it's own filter(s) to decode DivX (avi), are there any settings in MC14 or Win7 for the subtitles? (srt).
Also, what about the same issue for mkv files?
I'm still using Win7 build 7100 (32bit), if this might be a problem.

[MrHaugen]

I would also like to know more about this. Sat down to watch District 9 1080P mkv, with 20% of the dialog in Alian language. It's not really my strong side, so I had to Download the srt file, but MC would not pick it up even though it had the same name as the mkv, and was in the same directory.

Had to jump to Media Player Classic

[dcwebman]

I would also like to know more about this. Sat down to watch District 9 1080P mkv

Was District 9 good? The DVD doesn't come out here in the States until Dec. 22nd.

[MrHaugen]

Was District 9 good? The DVD doesn't come out here in the States until Dec. 22nd.

It was....special Everything filmed in a sort of "live" documentary style, which I don't really love. But overall I think it was good. It made me think hard about some of the choices they made, and how the species treated each other. About a 8/10 rating from me.

[YannisA]

I have installed CCCP codec pack and that, solved the problem.

[JustinChase]

I would like to know if anyone knows which filter "fixed" the subtitle issue for the mkv file.

I've got only a few installed, and they work for almost everything, but i also don't get subtitles in my mkv playback.

[glynor]

It'd be Haali and VSFilter.  You have to turn "Autoload VSFilter" On in Haali's preferences to enable subs to show by default.  Otherwise, you're expected to open VSFilter on-demand from the Haali tray icon UI.

If you just use CCCP, you can simply enable the Autoload VSFilter" option in the CCCP Preferences application (on the second page).

[JustinChase]

okay, I've spent too much time reading up on all this, and I'm starting to get a grip on all the pieces involved in making this all work.

The program I've used to write the mkv files I'm having trouble with (makeMKV) only copies the pgs subtitle into the mkv container, and it seems no one (other than the commercial players) is able to read this format upon playback.  CCCP didn't help, installing VSFilter.dll files (x86 and x64) didn't help and the common "savior" program of weird issues, MPC HC also can't playback these subtitles.

So it appears that I either have to convert the PGS subtitles to .sub or .srt files and mux them back into the mkv, or I need to find a program or filter that can read the unedited PGS subtitle files from the mkv file.

So, is there any way that MC can read these files directly from the mkv container?  I'm guessing that this ability would lead to some very happy people and some more business for J River.

I'm guessing this is a filter/codec issue and MC can't/won't be able to make this work; but it never hurts to ask.

[glynor]

Where are the PGS subs coming from?  Why are you using that format?

[JustinChase]

They are a result of ripping a blu-ray disc with a free program called makeMKV.  It works great, but it seems there isn't an easy way to convert the native subtitles, so he just keeps them unchanged in the mkv.  I'm assuming that someone will find a way to play these as-is at some point, but I can't currently find any way to do that.  I'm hopeful that Matt and the boys can find a way to do this; or maybe someone knows of a way currently to do this.  I'm also looking at converting the subtitles, but would rather not go that way if possible.  subtitles that aren't always at the bottom of the screen (district 9 for example) will likely not display correctly if converted to something else.

[Daydream]

Subtitles are for geeks, real men learn the language...! (MrHaugen, there's an alien advanced class somewhere... I'm still struggling with my elvish, post LOTR)
Justin, is there a forum where you haven't asked about this? Quite a complicated matter, eh?

To the best of my knowledge there is no free filter to render these subs as-is (although given that you can embed them and do other things with them, kind of begs the question why not?)

To make a long story short: I'm not a fan of this kind of subs, I like to OCR mine and keep them as text because in my opinion that provides better flexibility and better compatibility with many kinds of devices. Therefore I use SupRip to OCR the BD subs to something I can work with. If for certain purposes somebody is adamant about screen positioning, then convert them to .ass and position away. Probably though, you need the patience and dedication of somebody trained in the fansub scene.

If you do want to keep the subs as they are (meaning graphics, since all are pretty much a collection of graphics) use BDSup2Sub and convert them. It'll be a graphic to graphic format conversion, no OCR involved - hence it's fast. I'm not an expert on its use just that I tested it and it works. If you convert to SUB/IDX format (something that VOBSub and other filters can read) it implies a conversion from 256 colors palette on BD to 16 colors (DVD). The subs may appear slightly not so smooth on a very close inspection, but given the HD resolution, on a TV screen I don't think it's noticeable. There is an option to convert to XML/PNG which will keep the color palette but I have no idea how to embed that in an MKV. SUB/IDX works natively with mkvmerge.

Sure this will involve some changes in the workflow since you can't have it all in one go, like with MakeMKV. Sub streams will have to be demuxed (tsmuxer, others...) and worked on. Hope this helps.

P.S.: Why on Earth nobody told me MakeMKV supports ripping lossless audio now?   That's an awesome, many times requested addition!

[JustinChase]

yeah, complicated is one way of putting it 

Learning about all this is almost as much fun as learning Spanish was for me

I finally had the time to spend on this and after brushing up on command line skills, I was able to extract the pgs streams out of the mkv, run them thru BDSup2Sub, then mux them back into a new mkv.  I had done it as you suggested, just converted them to sub/idx files, and that seemed to work well.  It didn't take nearly as long as I thought to re-mux; maybe 15 minutes?

I looked into OCRing them, but I still don't quite understand the point of doing it, other than having the ability to scale them.  I'm sure there's other reasons, but the simple conversion worked fine, they are quite readable in 1080p and it was really wasn't *that* much more work.

It also seemed to handle the creation of just the forced subs just fine.  However, I do have to pick the forced stream for them to work (I just set it to the default in mkvmerge, which worked fine), but I know that in the "normal" playback of a disc with forced subs, you can't/don't actually pick the forced stream, it forces them no matter what, you can't turn them off.  It's not a big deal to have the extra subtitle track in there, but not having it would be that much cleaner.

I agree (hope) that someone will eventually figure out how to read/use the pgs subs within the mkv files, but I still think that Matt and the boys could do it, and maybe pick up some more customers and recognition of this great software along the way.

I almost never saw MC mentioned as a player choice in all my reading about all this.  I just don't know how many people realize what a capable player it is, especially considering the recent focus on audiofile abilities.

As for lossless with MakeMKV, it's a pretty recent development, and I am ripping that stream also, but my receiver has no HDMI input, so I can't currently take advantage of it.  I *could* convert to analog and run that to the receiver, but it prevents me from using zone 2 on my receiver for anything while 7.1 (or even 5.1) analog input is being used.

I just send via optical and let the receiver decode.  This may change in the future, but for now, it works fine for my needs.

Thanks for the input, and sorry if you got sick of seeing my questions in other places.  I hope they lead to answers for other newbies in this area

[JustinChase]

In case anyone is having similar issues...

I downloaded the newest mvktoolnix - v3.1, and it ripped the sups perfectly. Then I opened the .sup files in BDSup2Sub and converted them to .sub files, and it also created a .idx file for each stream. The newest MKVMerge will accept these .sub (actually the .idx) files and mux them right into the MKV for me, along with the original pgs subs, and unfortunately none of the subs worked. I them muxed them in the mkv again, but this time, I removed the pgs subs and that worked fine.

Unfortunately I don't want to delete the original and lose the pgs subs since I figure someone will figure out how to just use them directly in the mkv, and I usually prefer the "original" format when possible. this means I need to keep the original file, or perhaps I can just mux the subs into a new small file with just them in there.

then I wondered if the order mattered; so i re-muxed them again - putting the subs BEFORE the pgs subs, and that worked a treat. If I select one of the pgs streams it won't play and my player complains, but the sub streams work fine. the forced subs were set as the default, which was easy enough.

I never bothered trying to OCR them, as I don't really understand the point of it, the converted files play just fine, as far as i can see.

although these couple of extra steps are required, it's certainly not too time-consuming or difficult, once you find the right tools (and brush up on my command line skills), it's pretty easy to get a fully functional mkv and I'm keeping the originals within the file, so that if/when the pgs subs can be played directly, I can just re-mux the stripped subs back out and I'm done.

edited because I forgot to include the conversion with BDSuptoSub, whoops

[Daydream]

Glad it's working for you! Not trying to change your mind, just offering more info, OCRed subs have a couple of advantages. And disadvantages.

I can make them look any way I like, every time I play them, wherever I play them. Color, font, size, adjusting their position on screen, etc. If I change my mind I can adjust them too to whatever I find more pleasing (say, a better font). Also the rendering is much better, and more flexible depending on the target resolution. And depending on the content, desire and time available there are much more options there than plain .sub/srt files. ASS (Advanced SubStation Alpha) when combined with mkv offers a lot of options, much more than the original subs. If you want to have your sub style, that matches the theme of the video content, with your own fonts (font for VoiceOver, font for on screen speech, font for.. whatever) you can embed them too in the mkv so everything is consistent. Ghost In The Shell: SAC with the "cyberized" fonts is a pleasure to watch

But they are more time consuming to make. And they need to be spell checked.

[JustinChase]

Thanks for the explanation of some of the reasons to OCR them.  They sound like good reasons, but I'm not sure it's worth the time it will take me, and I'm still hopeful someone will get the native pgs subs working in the mkv container, and then I'll just use them anyway.

However, anyone that wants to OCR them can just add that step to the above, and get them just the way they want before muxing back into the mkv file (make sure they are listed before the pgs subs).

Thanks again for the input.