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Author Topic: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome  (Read 6064 times)

Matt

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Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« on: September 16, 2009, 06:40:33 pm »

1. NEW: Added ability to output music as a 5.1 Dolby Digital stream in DSP Studio > Output Format. (requires S/PDIF connection to surround sound receiver)

Wow, this sounds awesome.  I think it's the best my stereo has ever sounded.

I'd bring the center down about 5 dB, and make the default subwoofer cross-over around 50 Hz.
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jmone

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Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2009, 07:12:17 pm »

Wow, this sounds awesome.  I think it's the best my stereo has ever sounded.

 :o  :o - Don't get me wrong, this is a good option to add to MC as it gives another connection, format, and PC based DSP option to your users for integrating with their equipment.....but Matt really (of Lossless APE Fame) your sure you want to say it "sounds awesome...best....ever...." over just "sound different" or how about "how cool is this I can make all my CD's and Lossless APE files now sound like compressed MP3's"?  I don't know what encoding rate MC is using but the DD spec allows between 386 and 640kbps shared between all 5.1 CH - whereas each track stored losslessly can take this sort of bandwith up....I don't think this quote would help your credibility in pushing MC as an audiophile player!
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JimH

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Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2009, 07:13:36 pm »

Totally awesome!!!
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jmone

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Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2009, 07:37:12 pm »

Totally awesome!!!

Ok now I'm thinking - it's joke right and I just missed it?  ...or
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Matt

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Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2009, 07:44:28 pm »

:o  :o - Don't get me wrong, this is a good option to add to MC as it gives another connection, format, and PC based DSP option to your users for integrating with their equipment.....but Matt really (of Lossless APE Fame) your sure you want to say it "sounds awesome...best....ever...." over just "sound different" or how about "how cool is this I can make all my CD's and Lossless APE files now sound like compressed MP3's"?  I don't know what encoding rate MC is using but the DD spec allows between 386 and 640kbps shared between all 5.1 CH - whereas each track stored losslessly can take this sort of bandwith up....I don't think this quote would help your credibility in pushing MC as an audiophile player!

I'm saying it's the best my stereo has sounded.  It's not a high-buck rig.  I'm a headphone guy for music.

Six analog outputs to an amplifier would be even better, but I've never had that.

I've only ever had the stereo to 5.1 upsampling provided by my amp.  And that's not very good -- sloppy subwoofer, echo chamber reverb, etc.  

Just having full control over the subwoofer line is a big deal, because it allows for clean, tight bass that my amp doesn't seem to get from the stereo signal.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Matt

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Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2009, 07:49:11 pm »

Jim gave me a motivational speech once that I liked.  It went like this:

Quote from: JimH
There will be times in your life when nobody believes in you.

Often they're right.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

jmone

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Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2009, 08:26:17 pm »

Now I just feel bad like I made fun of someone with a terminal disease without knowing.  They say you should never met your heroes (ok Hero is a bit strong) but I’ve now got a shattered vision of the great Matt (lossless) T. Ashland being a 17yo pimply kid at uni (or 50yo uni lecturer..take your pick) with the back off an old stereo trying to make it go better between arguing the more esoteric points of who's algorithm is better.  



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cncb

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Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2009, 09:31:57 pm »

I've only ever had the stereo to 5.1 upsampling provided by my amp.  And that's not very good -- sloppy subwoofer, echo chamber reverb, etc.  

Your amp doesn't have Dolby Pro Logic II?  I get very good results with this (actually IIx, 7.1).
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MrHaugen

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2009, 02:49:36 am »

This is amazing! I think... I'm not a audiophile guy my self. I like to use all my speakers, even when listening to music. At least for parties and so on. This saves me the trouble of getting yet another Sound Card that promises to upscale (or what ever) the 2 ch sound to 5.1. I'll try it out later.

And please... Leave Matt alone :)
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glynor

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2009, 01:02:46 pm »

Why doesn't anyone make a reasonably good, external DAC with one digital input (optical or spdif) and 7.1 analog outputs, designed specifically for HTPC/computer audio applications??

It is so frustrating... All of my audio and video comes out of my computer.  I don't have any need, whatsoever, for a "receiver" with a billion I/O ports.  All I need is some powered speakers, and I have some very nice Klipsch ones.  But the main issue with computer audio is having the DAC inside the box with all of that electromagnetic interference.  If someone built a good-quality, reasonably cheap, DAC like I described above, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.  I could then use my on-board Realtek ALC889a's digital output (that Realtek audio codec is the one that does the real-time, on-the-fly Dolby Digital encoding, so that multi-channel sound works with games and everything that comes out of the computer), enjoy awesome audio quality, and not have to buy (and have out on display) a big, honking A/V Receiver that does absolutely nothing that I need except provide an external DAC.
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Alex B

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2009, 04:13:13 pm »

That kind of DAC device would need to have at least a Dolby decoder in addition to the analog outputs.

The recently discontinued Terratec Aureon Firewire provided 7.1 analog outputs and optical SPDIF. It was possible to use it as a standalone DAC but only with stereo signals. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/terratec,831.html

Edited a bit after actually fully reading glynor's reply...
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Alex B

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2009, 05:20:58 pm »

Outlaw Model 970 Surround Processor / Preamp would provide the features you requested and excellent quality with its eight channel 192 KHz DACs, but it is a normal sized "big" hi-fi component and its price is $550 (more than many entry level 7.1 receivers with power amps). http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/970.html


Regarding to the actual topic, I think a new input option for playing (capturing) a live audio signal directly from the Windows mixer would be very useful. Then MC's familiar interface and the DSP features could be used with external sources. The feature is already partially implemented in MC's sound recorder. Only the output redirection part would be needed. Then it would be to possible to use MC as a SW surround processor / preamp for all signal sources.

EDIT

Perhaps that feature could also work as a karaoke mixer. Then you could play an audio file and mix it with a live sound stream from a microphone or an instrument.
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Alex B

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2009, 10:50:25 am »

Quote
14.0.71 (09/21/2009)

4. Changed: Dolby Digital output of 5.1 sound works with DirectSound. (previously only worked with WASAPI)

I can't make it work with Direct Sound (on XP, so I can't try WASAPI)

I attached two screenshots. (Log in to the forum if you can't see the attachments.)

The sound device is Terratec DMX 6 fire 24/96. Its SPDIF outputs (optical and coax) are always active and output simultaneously with the analog outputs.

- Using the build 72 on XP Pro 32-bit.
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Matt

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2009, 05:27:29 pm »

I tried testing on XP with an integrated SoundMax card on an Asus P5B board.

I can't seem to get the digital output to show up for anything though.

The strange thing is the device opens and plays in 5.1 AC3, but it doesn't seem like anything is actually coming out of the hardware.

We'll have to keep digging.
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bytestar

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2009, 05:14:31 am »

I have drop outs with Dolby Digital Outpout over spdif.  ?
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JimH

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2009, 07:18:29 am »

If you're using WASAPI, try adjusting the settings.  They're just below.
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bytestar

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2009, 08:30:33 am »

I use direct sound because sometimes i have to switch to Analog (headset) to no disturb anyone.
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bytestar

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2009, 08:37:20 am »

If you're using WASAPI, try adjusting the settings.  They're just below.

I have now check the drop out apears only when Subwoofer Clearity is enabled.  >:(

But without subwoofer Clear .. I've got a hammer bass, which manybe not good.  ;D


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maxxsid

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2009, 12:32:51 am »

Hello,
Just FYI:
I tried this new feature. When active, it crashes MC on my system.. Normal SPDIF multichannel output works just fine (from ac3 and dts files, from dvd and avi). Will look into this more closely later..
Using XP SP3, onboard sound (Realtek HD), ASIO4ALL, AC3Filter with AC3 and DTS passthrough.

--max
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maxxsid

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2009, 11:08:51 pm »

Yes. MC 14.0.72 crashes on every attempt to play an mp3 file when the "Output surround sound as Dolby Digital" is checked. Sometimes just MC crashes, sometimes the whole system crashes - reboots without BSOD.
This happens on my HTPC system which actually uses SPDIF for output. It doesn't crash on a similar system with SPDIF inactive (and when I enable 5.1 sound on this system, I can hear that the sound changes but AC3Filter doesn't kick in as I would expect).
Any idea?

Thanks!
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Matt

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2009, 11:14:22 pm »

Yes. MC 14.0.72 crashes on every attempt to play an mp3 file when the "Output surround sound as Dolby Digital" is checked. Sometimes just MC crashes, sometimes the whole system crashes - reboots without BSOD.
This happens on my HTPC system which actually uses SPDIF for output. It doesn't crash on a similar system with SPDIF inactive (and when I enable 5.1 sound on this system, I can hear that the sound changes but AC3Filter doesn't kick in as I would expect).
Any idea?

Thanks!

Try DirectSound or WASAPI instead of ASIO.

AC3Filter, a software AC3 decoder, will not be involved.  You need an external AC3 decoder for this feature to make sense.
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maxxsid

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2009, 11:48:14 pm »

Matt,
I cannot use WASAPI as I am using XP.
On my HTPC (where it crashes) - I have ASIO4All enabled to be able to play bitperfect ac3 and dts files - which works through external decoder (Onkyo receiver). It crashes on MC's "soft" 5.1 output.
On my Desktop PC (where it doesn't crash) - I also have ASIO4All enabled but multichannel sound goes through AC3Filter since I only have a regular stereo amplifier connected. No crashes with this setup.

I'll try to debug this some more..

Could you please take a look at my log? I couldn't locate anything interesting there - maybe MC didn't have a chance to record anything just before it crashed.

Thanks a lot!

--max



Try DirectSound or WASAPI instead of ASIO.

AC3Filter, a software AC3 decoder, will not be involved.  You need an external AC3 decoder for this feature to make sense.
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jroyale

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2009, 01:59:36 pm »

Alex B,

In reference to your message on my other post http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=54557.0 I'm not getting an error.  I simply don't have any sound.  Actually my sound goes out not only for mp3's but for everything else.  I have to put the settings back and reboot then it is fine.

I'm running win xp sp3 with Live! 24bit external using SPDIF coax to my Yamaha amp with dd decoding. 
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jroyale

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2009, 11:51:19 am »

Forgive my frankness but I find it hard nobody has any insight into this particularly administrators.  This is my issue with this form of help.

Does nobody have an issue with doby 5.1 output similar to the one I described?
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JimH

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2009, 11:57:44 am »

jroyale,
Maybe you missed this?
  You need an external AC3 decoder for this feature to make sense.
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HiFiTubes

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2009, 11:13:30 pm »

I watch movies on 2 channel stereo with a Sabre32 based DAC and an 8watt 6BM8 power amp, and an Omega speaker setup. Simple, not too pricey, and sounds like a million bucks. For movies I guess 5.1 etc. creates realism but I pretty much live in mentality of the time period shown in this Jmone's pic. Music sounds real enough in 2.0
Now I just feel bad like I made fun of someone with a terminal disease without knowing.  They say you should never met your heroes (ok Hero is a bit strong) but I’ve now got a shattered vision of the great Matt (lossless) T. Ashland being a 17yo pimply kid at uni (or 50yo uni lecturer..take your pick) with the back off an old stereo trying to make it go better between arguing the more esoteric points of who's algorithm is better.  

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maxxsid

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2009, 02:58:16 am »

Sarcasm aside... if it's meant to be 2.0 it should be played as 2.0. If it's remixed/remastered to 4.0, 5.1 then OK I'll give it a listen. If I am drunk I'll switch my amp to 7.1 dolbywhatever while listening to the beatles etc. Movies is another story - 7.1 (they have 9.1 now, right?) - me like it.

Music sounds real enough in 2.0
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jmone

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2009, 03:47:29 am »

Here is an interesting perspective....Backgound on Alan is at http://www.audiolofftreport.com/about-alan-lofft.html

Insider’s Guide to Great Sound at Home
by Alan Lofft

As the days in the Northeast, Northwest and Midwest get chillier and darker with fewer daylight hours, we tend to move indoors and spend more time with our electronic entertainment. Getting cozy in front of the electronic hearth with music or movies over the winter months is a modern tradition. With that in mind, here are some guidelines for both newcomers as well as enthusiasts who want to enhance their home listening and movie-watching experiences.
Abandon Long-Held But Misguided Beliefs About Stereo

Try—if only for a few hours—to abandon any entrenched belief that stereo is the only way to listen to music. If you’ve been listening in stereo for the past 20 years or only listen using ear buds and an iPod, pick a couple of your favorite CDs to play back in 5.1 channels at a friend’s home who has an AV surround receiver, using Dolby Digital ProLogicII(x), dts Neo:6 or H/K’s Logic7. The added side surround speakers will bring those stereo recordings to life by steering the reflected and ambience cues to the side and rear surrounds, where they belong.
Of course, stereo was the standard format from the late 1950s until the mid-1990s, but digital recording has enabled not just more high-fidelity channels (up to 8, including the subwoofer channel) but sophisticated real-time “decoding” (analysis) of the stereo and phase information to extract reflective spatial cues that are routed to surround speakers will make music sound much more real, spacious and "live."

Think about the last concert you attended---indoor or outdoor. Sure, the performers were at the front, but the sound came at you from all directions, reflected and reinforced from side walls and ceilings in indoor concerts or even from foliage and buildings at outdoor venues. It’s those reflections combined with the direct sounds that make a recording sound real when it’s played in surround sound at home. Your brain can analyze the arrival times and strengths of direct and indirect reflections—but you’ll miss out on many of those time and amplitude cues if you listen only in stereo. The information will be there, but coming at you from the wrong direction. So think about upgrading that 15-year-old stereo receiver with its scratchy controls and noisy switches and entering the world of surround sound.

(Note: Not every stereo CD benefits. Many do, but much depends on the original engineering and mix of microphones. Live stereo recordings of all musical genres, jazz discs, opera and classical benefit the most. Get some simple two-or three-microphone “audiophile” recordings from labels such as Telarc, Chesky, Reference Recordings, and Mapleshade, to cite a few, and try those.) With a little adjustment of channel and surround speaker levels, a well-engineered stereo recording will be a sonic revelation when you hear it in 5.1 channels for the first time.
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jroyale

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Re: Output as 5.1 Dolby Digital -- Awesome
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2010, 12:54:31 pm »

Jim,

If you look at my linked topic you will see I have an external AC3 decoder.  I find it hard to beleive that somebody would say I'm not getting 5.1 when they don't have a 5.1 amp but that's me.  Maybe I think to highly of people.

Thanks.
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