Topic: Long "Opening" times for mkvs (Read 7800 times)

park · « **on:** February 19, 2010, 10:14:03 am »

This is really starting to get annoying now. mkvs, regardless of whether they were generated by DVDFab, or Handbrake take forever and a day to open. Playing two in a row often crashes MC. This is one both a mac pro (in vmware/vista) and on a sony vaio HTPC (vista), and both using the latest cccp.

zoomplayer is taking about the same amount of time to open the files so I can only assume it's a haali thing. Lots of people are noticing it. Anybody have any solutions?

glynor · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2010, 10:59:35 am »

I haven't been seeing this issue. I'm using CoreAVC for most of my video now (anything new is compressed to H264), which has a fancypants new build of Haali. Don't know if that's helping. Maybe try one of the beta builds of CCCP?

http://www.cccp-project.net/beta/

Or maybe just try updating your build of Haali to the latest and greatest...

http://haali.su/mkv/

jroyale · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2010, 11:56:53 am »

Ya it sounds like the splitter and there are many version of HAALI. I had some problems too and eventually I just played around with installing different versions until I got one that reacted well with my hardware. Likely not the answer you wanted to hear but I would take the advice of park as well. I did do the new cccp then changed HAALI version (can't recall which one) and it worked. I would also try COREAVC. It's a dynamite program, takes a load off the cpu and may help.

What filters do you have selected in file type?

maid · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2010, 12:40:08 am »

Hi Glynor,

Do you also use cccp as well as CoreAVC

What settings have you put in CoreAVC

Cheers

glynor · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2010, 08:24:30 am »

Quote from: maid on February 20, 2010, 12:40:08 am

Do you also use cccp as well as CoreAVC

What settings have you put in CoreAVC

Yep. I just install CCCP first, deselect AVC/H264 support in the settings dialog, then install CoreAVC.

I leave all the CoreAVC settings at the defaults except to enable hardware deinterlacing related stuff and make sure it is set to "when needed" (or however it does that type of function). It really doesn't need much config at all.

maid · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2010, 09:39:02 pm »

Sorry to be a newb.

What about haili splitter I seem to have one instaled on my system??

Thanks

fitbrit · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2010, 10:30:50 pm »

Oh, man. I am so fed up with this happening. It's not happening in any other program, even with the same filters running. And it appears so randomly, even when trying to play the same file twice in a row. If it fails the first time, it may work the second time, and vice versa. I really like the OSD and the controls in MC14, but I think I have to use MPC-HC as the default player for MKVs from within MC14.

I'll be happy to help if someone tells me what to do. I doubt that it's all Haali's fault, as it works in MPC-HC. I am running v. 149 with CoreAVC, Haali splitter and Haali renderer in XP.

I have to hold my breath every time I launch an mkv. On the plus side, my wife thinks I should build a new HTPC to avoid these problems. Yay! Thanks for attention that can be given to this matter.

raldo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2010, 12:45:31 am »

I'm seeing 6sec+ starting times for mkvs. I'm at .148 with the most recent CCCP installed with default settings, xp sp3.

Grumpy · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2010, 08:13:11 am »

I have the same problem. But I noticed that the load / start times differ depending on the original video codec. A MKV from dvds start with a somewhat faster time (15 to 19 seconds) than a MKV from a BDs encoded from H264, AVC or mpeg-4 (2 to 2.5 min’s). I saw faster start times from a MKV that was encoded from VC-1 of SMPTE. For reference the HTPC is a ASRock 330 ion-BD with 4gig of ram and slightly over-clocked. The OS is Win 7, 64bit stripped down to only what is needed for our HT. All the current drivers for the GPU.
I don’t have the same problem on other machines like the I7 and the Quad Core in other room’s So I can only conclude that MKVs are a great way to strip unwanted media from the disks and put what is left into one playable file. But the machine will still need the raw processor power to handle the original format plus the added overhead that the MKV container adds.
My solution may not be the best but it works for me. I don’t have storage limitations. If I need more I add it. So I rip complete disks to the server and play them from the IFO (dvd) or index (bd). Media center is set to call up a external application (TMT-3/P) for just these two file associations. Also by playing with TMT3 I can take avantage of the hardware acceleration offered for the nvidia GPU.
The WAF is thru the roof and I enjoy the 7 channel audio. MC is a very capable and customizable (is that a real word?) program. Work at it and find what works for you.

glynor · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2010, 08:19:29 am »

Just to check... Is anyone with problems using Library Server? That can cause LONG loading times for videos in some cases.

park · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2010, 08:27:41 am »

An example:

Zatoichi: The Fugitive
693MB, 1hour25minutes, 1 video track(DIVX), 1 audio track(vorb), 1 subtitle track, mkv created in mkvmerge.

Windows Vista inside vmware fusion 3, SP2, CCCP (filters used: haali, ffdshow video, directvobsub loaded), 1gb/s wired network (bridged mode in vmware options), MC in LS client mode (play local files option ticked)

Time to open the file: 50 seconds. (starts playing from 23 minutes into the movie because of bookmark). Try to seek to beginning of the file whilst it is opening and MC crashes. Opening it a second time after a successful opening the first time took 26 seconds.
Time to open the file with VLC on mac: Less than 1 second
Time to open with zoomplayer using MC's send to command: 25 seconds
-----

I tried random movies after that, some made in DVDFab, some in handbrake, and some that had been obtained by other means and converted using mkvmerge. All of them opened between 10 and 25 secs.

jroyale · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2010, 12:21:43 pm »

Hmm. This is odd and in my experience although the processor will play a part it shouldn't be anymore than a few seconds. I'm running an acer revo 3610 which has an intel atom processor. That is about as weak as it gets and my mkv's increased in start length from my previous system (core 2 duo 2.8ghz) from under 1 second to about 2 to 3 seconds.

Run through exactly what settings you have selected under options>file types>mkv ie. source filter, other filter and video renderer. When playing what filters are shown as being used (right click on video while playing>filters)?

fitbrit · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2010, 02:09:36 pm »

Quote from: Grumpy on February 22, 2010, 08:13:11 am

I have the same problem. But I noticed that the load / start times differ depending on the original video codec. A MKV from dvds start with a somewhat faster time (15 to 19 seconds) than a MKV from a BDs encoded from H264, AVC or mpeg-4 (2 to 2.5 min’s). I saw faster start times from a MKV that was encoded from VC-1 of SMPTE. For reference the HTPC is a ASRock 330 ion-BD with 4gig of ram and slightly over-clocked. The OS is Win 7, 64bit stripped down to only what is needed for our HT. All the current drivers for the GPU.
I don’t have the same problem on other machines like the I7 and the Quad Core in other room’s So I can only conclude that MKVs are a great way to strip unwanted media from the disks and put what is left into one playable file. But the machine will still need the raw processor power to handle the original format plus the added overhead that the MKV container adds.
My solution may not be the best but it works for me. I don’t have storage limitations. If I need more I add it. So I rip complete disks to the server and play them from the IFO (dvd) or index (bd). Media center is set to call up a external application (TMT-3/P) for just these two file associations. Also by playing with TMT3 I can take avantage of the hardware acceleration offered for the nvidia GPU.
The WAF is thru the roof and I enjoy the 7 channel audio. MC is a very capable and customizable (is that a real word?) program. Work at it and find what works for you.

CPU is barely a factor for me - the same h264 encoded mkv takes a few seconds in other programs using the same CPU. In MC14 it often doesn't open AT ALL (requiring a force quit of MC14).

jroyale · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2010, 02:59:55 pm »

For those having issues in your post can you tells us exactly what settings and filters you have specified in file types and also what is actually being used (right click video and go to filters)

fitbrit · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2010, 03:21:52 pm »

Splitter: Haali, tray icon disabled
Filters: CoreAVC with CUDA, tray icon disabled; AC3filter; ffdshow subtitles filter
Renderer: Haali (waiting for MadVR support to be implemented properly to try that).

This is on XP.

jroyale · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2010, 04:11:18 pm »

Okay...have you tried render to automatic or renderer video mixing renderer (VMR) 9 or 7? Not the renderless mode. Also make sure these are being used ie loading properly so when the video is playing right click and select filters and make sure the ones you have selected are showing up.

Not that it will necessarily help but to troubleshoot everything also try ffdshow both audio and video instead of Coreavc and ac3filter. I don't have it in front of me but I think it's ffdshow audio decoder and ffdshow video decoder.

Get back to us with the results.

fitbrit · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2010, 04:21:57 pm »

I can certainly do that, but to what end? I hope MC14 will be fixed to work with the filters I've chosen (and even paid for)? I don't mind testing with different filters, but there are reasons I've chosen the combination I use. They work in other players like MPC-HC. I don't want to change filters to a combo that will work, when the ones I'd rather choose should work.

jroyale · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2010, 04:40:10 pm »

I hear ya and totally understand but it's more from a troubleshooting standpoint then from a take it or leave it point of view. Frankly if it does work with other settings I will likely be at a loss to fiture it out but at least you have narrowed it down.

I have had 0 experience with the AC3 filter and i'm very, very sure it's not CoreAVC but whenever I have issues I change 1 thing at a time to narrow it down. Oh ya...make sure you just change 1 thing a at time.

Good luck.

rick.ca · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2010, 04:41:02 pm »

Quote

I can certainly do that, but to what end?

Beats me. I'm using the same filters as you, and they work fine—although on Windows 7.

Has anyone experiencing these delays checked the log see what's going on? Maybe MC is getting stuck on some other process that has nothing to do with the filters.

gappie · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2010, 05:20:09 pm »

i also have no problems with mkv's about a second with the mkv on a external firewire or usb drive with xp. i did have some problems though, in the past where i had zoomplayer and cccp installed. both with what seemd to be different haali filters. removing them all and reinstalling only what i needed took care of that.
dont know if it helps $:-\$

gab

fitbrit · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2010, 12:34:18 am »

I'll be building new HTPCs and installing Win7 soon. Hopefully a fresh everything will fix these issues. Between Haali versions, previous MC14 problems (which I think Yaobing fixed), and trying to patch stuff up, I don't want to complain too loudly in case it's my problem. I usually wait until someone brings up the same problem before piping up that I'm experiencing it too.
Still, I think a lot of people believe h264 encoded mkvs are where a lot of media is headed. I believe lossless sound will be the next big thing in this container, now that ffdshow handles it fairly well. I think JRiver Media Center will do well to keep on top of the developments in filter and renderer tech. Great job so far in a constantly changing playing field, I must say.

Gappie: So is it possible that MPC-HC and MC14 could be using different versions of Haali? Is it even possible to install more than one version on the same OS?

park · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2010, 12:46:32 am »

cccp and coreavc both install different versions of Haali I believe.

Zoomplayer is installed with cccp and so I assume it uses the same filter chain as MC would in auto mode. There shouldn't be any difference between the two in video opening times. In my previous test, MC opening and seeking took double the time to open, than opening a second time from the beginning of the file. That second attempt was roughly equivalent to the time it took zoomplayer to open the file.

Neither of my two computers are ideal test situations. One runs in vmware fusion (on a dual processor mac pro), and the other one (a HTPC) connects via wireless g. Both probably take a performance hit in their network interfaces compared to a wired 1gbs windows PC. However, the files are small. Often only about a gig. I don't remember MC13 taking that long to open the same size files. Many other users seem to have the same subjective memory.

ThoBar · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2010, 01:28:09 am »

Quote

Windows Vista inside vmware fusion 3, SP2, CCCP (filters used: haali, ffdshow video, directvobsub loaded), 1gb/s wired network (bridged mode in vmware options), MC in LS client mode (play local files option ticked)

A bit of a long shot, as your times don't match what I would expect in either case, buuuut.....

Are you able to test running the file direct from the "local" copy? (e.g. the mapped drive - not via library server)

If the "local" copy starts more quickly then, for some reason, the "play local file" option doesn't appear to be working.

C.

gappie · « **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2010, 02:44:34 am »

Quote from: fitbrit on February 23, 2010, 12:34:18 am

Gappie: So is it possible that MPC-HC and MC14 could be using different versions of Haali? Is it even possible to install more than one version on the same OS?

with zoom pro and its own update system i had two haalifilters. i just checked because i recently installed coreavc. and i have a haali installed under programms\haali and one under programms\cccp
they are both the same version. i have no idea if it is possible that programms can use different versions. i just remember that the two versions were different back then and that deinstalling helped.

gab

fitbrit · « **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2010, 11:39:12 am »

Thanks gappie.

My main concern is that sometimes these files don't open at all, and at other times, the same file, with the same filters and the same PC open just fine (and quite quickly). When they don't open at all, we get the "Opening" screen with cover art indefinitely. Other times it's just a black screen.

I should add that all my media is on a 28 TB unRAID server in a different room, connected by cat6 gigabit ethernet. Sometimes there is an expected delay when opening media as a drive on the server has to spin up. I wonder if MC14 is 'timing out' or something while waiting, on some of the times it doesn't work. It can't be every time, as I usually manually get all 16 drives on my server to spin up before launching MC.

fitbrit · « **Reply #25 on:** February 27, 2010, 09:49:47 pm »

Definitely a Haali problem. I've registered Gabest's Matroska splitter as a standalone filter. Now the files start up very quickly and I'm able to get subtitles etc., which is something I'd heard non-Haali splitters were not good at supporting. I also upgraded the HTPC to Vista (Win7 not compatable with my sound card), so am using EVR as the renderer.

Life is sweet again. I must say, however, that MPC-HC was still kind of ok with Haali, so I'm not sure what's going on.

fitbrit · « **Reply #26 on:** April 06, 2010, 05:24:28 pm »

Looks liek these problems have been solved in new builds of MC15. Anyone else verify?

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #27 on:** April 06, 2010, 05:29:18 pm »

Did you see this post Fibrit?
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56798.0

I think it is more to do with how healthy the whole directshow codec system is on the system.

Matt · « **Reply #28 on:** April 06, 2010, 05:32:55 pm »

If you're playing from a server, this change in Media Center 15 should help a lot:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56617.0

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Long "Opening" times for mkvs (Read 7800 times)