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[Beetlemania]

I've been flirting w/ switching to computer audio over the past year and am getting closer to pulling the trigger . . . but there's always one more hurdle that makes me want to stick w/ my CD player! I've decided on a USB DAC and I think I'll build a custom, fanless PC including using MC as the software player. I (twice) read the article on computeraudiophile.com (CA) regarding ripping strategy and am puzzled and discouraged by how difficult it sounds.

For PC-based playback, CA advises WAV files for the "working" copy and FLAC files for the archive/back-up, the latter because WAV files apparently can't include embedded metadata. But is there any reason why I can't use MC as the ripping, copying, *and* playback software? That is, just keep everything in WAV format. MC supposed to offer bit-perfect "secure" rips. And if I understand correctly, it can copy the libraries (including the associated metadata for WAV files) to multiple drives. Provided that I stick w/ MC as my playback software (i.e., don't change playback software), isn't this a much simpler way to back up music (WAV files) including the metadata? What am I missing?

[Vincent Kars]

What am I missing?

What you are missing is your own ears.

Both are lossless formats but FLAC is compressed (bit like Winzip) and WAV isn’t.
Now some people claim that because of this, WAV sounds better.
The claim is that the (marginal) overhead required to decompress FLAC has a negative impact on sound quality.
I belong to those who believe that if this is audible,  your system has a problem.
The first thing you should do is rip a couple of CD’s to WAV and to FLAC and do a unsighted listening test.
I would be surprised if you do hear a difference at all.

[Beetlemania]

Thank you for the response, Vincent (don't you run WTC website?).

>>>What you are missing is your own ears.
You are right that I have not compared these formats (my only digital source is a CDP) and perhaps I will not be able to distinguish them if I do (or maybe I'll actually prefer FLAC). But storage is cheap (I just bought a 1 TB HDD for $70) so I don't see the harm in storing uncompressed files . . .  provided that I don't lose the metadata following the inevitable disk failure.

So, do you know if MC can copy its library (including the associated metadata for WAV files) to multiple drives for the purpose of back-up?

[BullishDad]

Welcome, Beetlemania!

Congratulations. You found JRiver's Media Center, so you have been doing your homework.  I started ripping my CDs about 7 years ago and it's been a lot of fun, even if it wasn't as easy as I would've liked.  Pull that trigger already and don't look back.  You'll enjoy your music much more because you'll be able to access it and listen to it in ways that you couldn't before.

It will be easier than it was 7 years ago because MC has developed so much over that timeframe.  Plus digital music files are pretty much the norm these days, so you'll find plenty of hardware that can play your music.

In my opinion, I would rip (secure rip with MC) to FLAC and backup in FLAC.  Since both WAV and FLAC are lossless formats, you will not notice a difference in sound quality.  FLAC is becoming the lossless standard, and can hold the metadata, so I don't see the point of keeping WAV files.  If needed, you always could convert from FLAC to WAV if you were using a program that didn't support FLAC.  You'd simply be wasting space with the WAV files instead of FLAC and I think you'll find more uses for the files in the FLAC format versus WAV.

Good luck with your project.

[Vincent Kars]

So, do you know if MC can copy its library (including the associated metadata for WAV files) to multiple drives for the purpose of back-up?

Yes, in the file menu there are options to backup and restore a library.

[zxsix]

Let's be clear that "Library Backup" means the database and not the audio files themselves.

[ElQuia]

Beetlemania: I can only tell you about my own experience, I used to have QUITE an audio system. Now I keep only the speakers (got a Polk Audio Reference system), the amplifiers and Pre amps (Carver) and a DVD Player. My Audio comes from my PC, fan-less, an Asus mobo with soundmax codecs and a liquid cooling system.
I have now 500 GB + in audio files, some leftovers in mp3 but 99% in FLAC. Did quite a lot of testing comparing WMA, WV and FLAC (all lossless) and decided on flac because of compatibility and universality. I have quite good "ears" and can hear no difference between wav an flac, and with wav you cant tag.
As audiophiles say: you got to spend a 90% of your budget on speakers. Good speakers make ALL the difference.
BTW, I am ripping to digital a huge collection of cassettes (ya, cassettes    ) and SVHS HiFi tapes from years ago. Lots of recorder music and some muisc that cant be found now. I Use Adobe Audition for recording and normalizing.

Of course: I have THREE external HD backups!!

Go On with it, you will have LOTS of FUN.
 

[Blue Boy]

Hi I am new to allt this stuff too, and like you I like to have my collection in Wav format. There is a never ending discussion on the subject Flac vs Wav. In my opinion I belive that there CAN be a difference depending on what HiFi system and external Dac you using, for myself I have Harman Kardon and a just
on the market Musicstreamer II+, an uppgrade from the earlier muscstreamer II.
This is how I belive you can store your Wav. files. I used the portable install for MC!% so I have it on the same external HDD as my music library. I rip my CDs with EAC have used this software for a year so I allready had a lot of CD's ripped when I found out about MC15. You add your wav to MC and with FREDB you
allready got the info Artist/Tracktitle, add the coverart and done. Then you back up the info on your external drive to another external drive then you got a ready to go backup. I'm far from done with my project as a matter a fact, I'm still trying to figure out what is the best way go, but this I tried out last weekend and it works great.
Hope this can be useful to all Wav. friends out there in digital land

Blue Boy

[Beetlemania]

>>>Let's be clear that "Library Backup" means the database and not the audio files themselves.

I did this experiment: 1) I burned 3 CDs as WAV into a directory on my HDD; 2) I used Library Tools > Rename, Move, and Copy to transfer the WAV files to a USB drive; 3) I deleted the WAV files on the HDD; 4) I used Library Tools > Rename, Move, and Copy to transfer the WAV files on the USB drive back to the HDD (I actually made a rookie mistake and deleted them from the USB). All the metadata was right there - no problem. But I think my experiment is not valid - I need to simulate a full HDD loss/failure. The Library "database" must have been stored somewhere else on the HDD and, therefore, never deleted to properly test my method.

So, where is the Library "database" and how do I properly back it up? Can this be done in the same step as backing up the audio files?

Also, if FLAC has all the same data as WAV (plus embedded metadata), why does it rip substantially faster? TIA.

[zxsix]

The library database is by default in c:\users\username\appdata\roaming\j river\media center 15\library.
But it could be anywhere, really.
To be sure in your scenario, run MC and go to File > Library Manager.  You'll be able to see the actual folder in there.
MC makes it's own backups of the library, but I usually backup the Library folder when I backup the media files.

[Vincent Kars]

Also, if FLAC has all the same data as WAV (plus embedded metadata), why does it rip substantially faster? TIA.

Maybe because the I/O is the limiting factor and a FLAC file is about 40-50% smaller than a WAV.

[Beetlemania]

Thanks so much for your help! I copied the library back-up zip file to a USB drive (along w/ the audio files) and killed them on the hard drive. MC was a blank slate. Getting the library file back was a piece of cake, MC even unzipped the file w/o me telling it to. I couldn't figure out how to use MC to import the audio, so that part I did with Windows Exploder. Slightly cumbersome (the way I did it would suck if I had 1000 files - though not as much as having to re-rip) but I got to the desired result.

[zxsix]

I couldn't figure out how to use MC to import the audio, so that part I did with Windows Exploder. Slightly cumbersome (the way I did it would suck if I had 1000 files).

In Windows explorer, right-click on folder containing the audio files, choose Media Center, choose Import.

Better method:  In MC File > Library > Import> Import a single Folder.
Click next.  Select the folder where the audio files are.

[Beetlemania]

>>>In MC File > Library > Import> Import a single Folder

but it didn't work. I guess I made a misstep somewhere . . . will try again. Thank you for your attention!

[zxsix]

Verify the checkboxes for the filetypes you want it to import.