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[benn600]

It is nearing the time for me to build a new home theater personal computer.  There are many reasons why I feel it is time and I would really appreciate feedback on how to approach this.  I would like to spend a couple weeks doing research, testing, thinking and then make the ordering decisions, watching for a good deal.

Here are my critical criteria for this HTPC:

1. Almost completely silent.  Fanless wherever possible.  Fairly nice case that helps insulate the noise.
2. Small solid state hard drive.  This would help with noise.  I have a gigantic server/fast network for all the media accessing/saving.  Improved long term reliability as well. (16GB enough?)
3. Standard component width so it matches and sits nicely among other set top boxes--not narrow or vertically standing.  Ideally somewhat slim though (riser card perhaps).  Black.
4. HDMI, optical, component, miniplug, etc.  My current htpc has literally every output known to man.  I can live without composite and s-video, .
5. Perhaps slim optical drive.  Not necessarily mandatory but always convenient.  Huge plus if it was a slim Blu-Ray drive without adding much cost (probably not possible quite yet).
6. Utterly pure, smooth, crystal clear 1080p playback with power to spare.  This is the primary reason for me having to upgrade.
7. Rock solid wireless (minimum 20 foot range!!) ultra portable keyboard with integrated mouse--nice if it was solidly attached but detachable.
8. Clean, nice looking case.  Any plugs are nice but should be well hidden.
9. Obvious: gigabit networking, simple, not overly large and expandable, medium-to-low power.
10. Accelerated, capable graphics for smooth (power to spare) animation of MC theater view.

This is definitely asking for a lot.  I am really hoping to do all of this for under $500.  Was originally thinking $300 but I when I say power to spare, that can be interpreted several ways.

As far as the OS, what is the best choice?  Windows 7, Vista, or XP?

Thanks everyone!

[jmone]

I went for one of the Shuttle Form Factor Barebones as they are quite, the same height as my Reciever (good for side by side but not very wide so no good for stacking), it's also black and does not have a lot of "bling".  If I was doing it again, I'd get one sans Video (eg SX58H7), add a Fanless ATI 4550 HDMI card, Win7/Vista, a 2.5" Laptop Sata HDD, Sweet Spot CPU, 4GB of RAM, the MCE Remote/KB, and add a LG Combo Blu-ray/HD-DVD Drive.

[leezer3]

I found that trying to stuff everything into a HTPC type case only lead to tears-
1. Not enough space inside. Most of these only let you use low-profile or stock coolers, which inevitable have nasty little fans.
2. Not enough slots on a MATX board. These are the cards I've got installed-
* DVB-S satellite tuner
* DVB-T freeview/ analogue twin-tuner (Mostly used for analogue input)
* Audio card
* Graphics card (Takes up two slots with a large passive cooler)
3. Proprietary PSUs. Most of the nice looking ones use non-standard PSUs, and again these have nasty little fans and not enough wattage for my liking.

I just stuck everything into a desktop case and stuffed it out of sight behind the TV

-Leezer-

[benn600]

Quite honestly, the standard official HTPC cases are gigantic.  I have built several over the years and in order to get full height card support, they are very tall.  My three most recent builds all have standard power supplies with after market CPU coolers.  I have got to be seriously conscientious about this, though, because my two most recent are way too loud.  It is sickening.  Worse yet, the fan speed is based on the CPU usage.  So if something big is going on, the fan roars.

Our theater is top priority. Everything is top notch...then we've got this stupid loud/annoying htpc that can't even play high def.  What a joke.

[leezer3]

You're obviously using a different type of aftermarket cooler to me 
Cooler in my HTPC is an Akasa Evo 120, and TBQH it struggles to fit in a lot of desktop cases, let alone a HTPC case. Most HTPC cases I've looked into also use MATX boards, which simply don't have enough slots for me. This is the *only* fan in the case (Zalman fanless PSU), and in operation it's absolutely silent.

-Leezer-

[Daydream]

I'm still taken by this MiniITX case (check the size!). You might be able to hide it completely (and pretend in your house 1080p24 just happens out of pixie dust in a continuous state of flux ). It implies going the Nvidia Ion way (with a dual core Atom) if that's enough for your needs. It should fit everything you need except point 4, but personally I won't put an optical drive in (but a I have a standalone Blu-ray player).

Regarding your point 2) - 16GB SSD. That kind of makes me uneasy. Official specs for Win7 lists 16 to 20GB of space. Even if you don't use a pagefile and no local thumbnail databases for MC I still don't think 16GB is safe.

[newsposter]

I just checked my Win7/7229 installation.

/Windows is a hair smaller than 9.5 Gb.  This is with the 'full boat' of Win7 installed along with a pile of additional applications installed that put stuff into /windows including office 2007 and photoshop cs4 extended.

[benn600]

I think HDMI is sufficient and hopefully it includes audio over HDMI, which my current setup does.  A 32GB SSD would obviously be much safer and probably plenty of space but definitely more expensive.  The sweet spot may very well be 32GB.  Unfortunately, prices can really vary with some having very negative & positive reviews.  It would be difficult to choose on.

How difficult would it be to install to a USB flash drive?  32GB flash drives are very reasonable.  Not near as fast, though...

[newsposter]

if your mobo has PATA ports, look at the prices for DOM (disk on module) storage.  Plugs right into the PATA port.  Might be useful for your purposes.  Or not.

[boydn]

Wish ya the best of luck.  I don't believe it can be done for $500.  I just ordered parts for a new box this morning.  I know I overkilled in a couple of spots but, spent $955. 

[benn600]

You're probably right.  The last htpc I built was well under $500.  It is close to my criteria and I truly think I could meet most of these criteria within this price point...perhaps not all.  It will be interesting.

[Daydream]

ZOTAC IONITX-A-U = $189 (CPU, motherboard, Video card, HDMI with sound, WiFi n, Gigabit Ethernet, CUDA, included 90W power adapter, many other things)
OCZ Blade Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) = $49.99 ($39.99 after MIR; cheapest I could find, it's an HTPC, nor a frag-fest machine)
The case I listed above = $39.95 (if you find something better (read smaller), please do tell! )

Total so far = $278.94 (plus shipping)

If you don't add any optical drive, use that good old keyboard and mouse and boot the thing off the cheapest flash drive (assuming you have one somewhere, lost under the couch, doesn't matter) with XP embedded on it, the cost stops here.

Aiming for more, if you want an SSD presumably for Win7 (does the Trim command in software works with all SSD?) Super Talent Ultra SSD drive (which I indeed kind of picked it up from my hat, not really researching) adds $119 for 32GB. Total now $397.94. I leave you with $100 and some change to pick up your crazy keyboard and mouse, if you find some, since usually this comes down to really subjective choices and nothing is exactly the way one wants it.

Who says it can't be done under $500? What's wrong with you people?

[benn600]

Totally.  My last HTPCs cost around $300.

[D.gaump]

Thanks for the recommendations GQ..

I cant find the case for sale in the US but it does sound like what I want...

I will go for a 650W power supply and have selected this one based on reviews..
CoolerMaster Real Power Pro 650W ATX 12V / EPS 12V Computer Power Supply RS-650-ACAA-A1, Active PFC, SLI Ready.

This will be the first system that I have built myself in many years,  So I appreciate all the good advice from my friends...

[benn600]

I am now starting to put together an order for this.  The biggest unknown to me right now is should I use onboard video or get an extra video card?

This has to be smokin fast: utterly flawless HD and above playback, HQ MC theater view with NO lag.  Is the video card the largest determination for these criteria?  Any suggestions?  Can I get by with onboard or not?

[benn600]

I have ordered everything.  I decided to use a separate video card just in case.  I would rather overbuild this particular HTPC.  The entire system is fanless except the case, which has a few medium-sized fans that I can unplug (if able) or at a minimum, slow down.

Fanless 400w 80 Plus Bronze certified PSU
64GB Solid State Drive with 3.5 to 2.5 adapter kit
Intel Core 2 Duo with aftermarket fanless cooler
HD Radeon 4850 fanless edition
Thick steel home theater pc case
Cordless keyboard/mouse device (integrated)
4GB DDR2 memory

I may go for Windows 7 but haven't decided yet.  Otherwise, I will use a copy of Vista I already have.  I really hope the extra care taken in components pays off and yields a much higher quality / capable unit which is silent from several feet away.

Goals with this:
1. Utterly flawless MC theater view / very high speed thumbnails with solid state drive.
2. Approaching completely silent and basically silent from several feet away.
3. Perfect 1080p video playback including HD television and a variety of HD video.
4. New Windows operating system for higher quality audio/video output (as able).
5. Better keyboard/mouse with enhanced range over current product.

I will be highly interested in Blu-Ray playback once I have this HD capable unit running.

[skeeterfood]

Seems I'm a little late to the game, but I'd suggest always checking the latest HTPC Guide over on AVS Forum.  Sep 09 update: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14239742#post14239742

-John

[benn600]

I don't know but that guide seems practically worthless to me.  I've looked at it or similar guides before and they just seem like a lot of wasted time.  In my case, I pick my own components.  For some, it may be a guide, but it almost fails to just give the general background knowledge needed.  I didn't notice any details on building a quiet or silent machine, which is top on my priority list.

The one piece of information I did find extremely useful is the HTPC keyboard/mouse list.  I ordered what I thought was about the only one, despite poor reviews.  This guide has a list of several more I can try.

Most of the components arrived yesterday.  I have got to say that the thick steel case is totally worth the extra cost.  It really wasn't too expensive except for the fact that with no power supply, then I went and spent quite a bit on a fanless unit.  They took serious care in designing the case I have.  Of course I won't know until for sure until I put it all together, but initial impressions are great.  The remaining components will not arrive until Monday and then I'm gone for almost a week so it may be a while until I put this together

Or I'll get everything put together today and throw in the final piece, the PSU, Monday--then quickly installing everything for a test.

[benn600]

Okay, the system is mostly built and actually up and running.  I still haven't received the fanless power supply but will probably Monday.  Things did not go anywhere near as smoothly as I was hoping for, but I think they can ultimately be outstanding:

1. The fanless CPU heatsink is too tall to fit in this case.  The height is about 3/4" too tall and does not allow the top lid to close fully.  I somewhat expected this to be close based on measurements but did not have much choice in the matter due to the rarity of fanless choices.
2. Totally unexpected was that the fanless video card is also too tall.  It extends beyond the height of the card for all its heatsink surface area.  This made me quite upset when I discovered this.  It is only about 1/2" too tall (not as much as the cpu heatsink).
3. The back of the case has some extended metal around the card slots which made it seem that I would not be able to plug HDMI in.  I was ready to just bend the metal out of the way but knew this would destroy the cosmetic condition of this area.  When I just shoved it in, it did in fact work.  However, it is only in 1/2 or so of the way and is angled slightly, which is concerning.  I guess it seems to work and is reliable.  This made me wonder how so many things could go wrong all at once.

Things are going quite well on some fronts, though:
1. The case is a beautiful design and matches the other theater components so well.  It really looks like a 5-disc DVD player.  This is one of those cases where it feels like they've just thought of everything.
2. Media Center is unmistakably and utterly smooth.  I keep pushing the framerate up and think I've just left it at 90.  But everything is smokin' fast and crystal clear/responsive.
3. The cordless keyboard/mouse combo I decided on was a bit uncertain at first but seems to be working quite well now.  The keys are not as ultra precise as I'd like--it misses a key from time to time--but right now I am typing around 70+ words per minute without any drop outs or problems at all.  The mouse is also quite nice.  Range works fairly well around the room it is used in but I have not undergone full testing of this yet.  It is definitely better than the previous product, though.
4. I elected for windows 7.  It is so pleasing to see built in DVD playback support.  No more installing junk software just for playback.

My plan at the moment is to try to resolve the space issues by having a custom cover constructed.  It is really just sheet metal and if it is copied with the edge downward pieces extended about an inch, it should work great.  The specifics will be worked out when I can contact a sheet metal place hopefully on Monday.  This is without a doubt the best computer case I have ever owned.  They call it thick steel and that really must be the difference.  It looks and feels like a set top box and not a computer case.

It is much quieter than the last system.  Plus, I will still be removing three fans when all is said and done--the temporary power supply has two fans plus the CPU cooler is the stock cooler for the moment.  I have to remove the motherboard so I can add the under-motherboard plate needed for the aftermarket cooler.  The case has a front door that covers audio, usb, and firewire ports in addition to an array of card readers.  Even more interesting is a readout display on the front which I am going to install the driver to and try soon.  I'm not sure what to expect.  The system includes a remote control which may very well replace my previous remote of choice if it works well.

It is difficult to realize how much of an upgrade this is!  Oh yea, and with this particular system I used version .81 and noticed the new theater view background images (not sure when they were added...) but AHHH!!

[benn600]

Now that I have had time to try the IMON remote and display, I am better able to portray my feelings.

Both devices are incredibly narrow minded and essentially offer a few neat features while they miss the big picture entirely.  The display is basically worthless unless you use the few supported pieces of software and they didn't even think to throw in the ability to simply display specific text all the time or turn the thing off (without unplugging it of course).

The remote gets several times worse.  If I can get past the inability to link a button to simply running an executable, the remote must have been designed by people trying to just get it to work rather than people who truly understand the situation.  With my other product (Keyspan), you would set the repeat rate in its software setup wizard with several types of repeat and an array of repeat delays.  This product apparently placed the repeat behavior directly in the hardware of the remote.  So, you can see it sends out a key and then starts repeating the key after a delay.  This isn't devastating for most people--except it appears to make it impossible to program these codes into my universal remote.  It tries to use the single signal at the start and then will not let the key repeat more than the initial push.  If I place the remotes together after already holding the IMON remote (so it's in fast repeat IR mode), it is a little better but would require precise timing of the light-speed IR signals to get them aligned right at the start of the desired string.

The power off feature just will not work, either.  I have set it up as needed but it doesn't do anything.  The best I can get is for it to pop up the Windows Shut Down box with the drop down to shut down/restart.  Several of the choices I tried are supposed to instantly shut down.  But they don't.

Okay, so I'll revert to my long tested and trusted Keyspan remotes.  Well, apparently they don't offer a 64-bit compatible driver.  Therefore, I can't even get these to work at all.  The best I can do now is use the included remote separate from my universal remotes.  It is also so poorly designed that I had to use numbers for the arrows.  Amazing how something so simple can be designed so poorly and cause me so many problems during setup.

[HiFiTubes]

When I had my Uneed X11 case for a few years I constantly ran into headaches with fanless cards and heatsinks.

I actually left the top off the case as it fit very tightly in my rack anyway; not the best solution.



I'd look into the mini-ITX solutions. So much less power and you can still pop in a Phenom if you like (although I like the 45w AMD dual-core).



Open case again due to the location and heatsink.

[benn600]

I suppose I should show everyone the result.  I finished building this HTPC a few weeks back.  Here it is.  An old thread contains what the old one looked like if anyone really is concerned.


Okay, can anyone guess which of the four components is the home theater pc?


Little bit broader view with richer colors.


Yep, you were right.  Lower right.  Here is the result.  I should mention the disc drive does have a cover I need to install.  It makes the disc drive look exactly like the rest of the case.  The lower panel swings open to reveal USB, Firewire, and several card reader slots.  The left center panel is a readout screen which I have found is only useful in standby mode.  When the computer is off, it says the name of our theater.  In reference to leaving the lid off, notice carefully how the back of the lid is raised.  This is due to the oversized CPU and graphics card heatsinks (both fanless).  The entire system is fanless.  I may investigate a custom made lid for this as it doesn't seem to difficult.  Currently awaiting parts to build a second of these with slightly modified components so the lid will fit as it should.


Closer, softer view.  Power and hard drive lights left unplugged to reduce overall ambient lighting.


The home theater pc keyboard/mouse combo I use.  It works fairly well although it did start acting up yesterday.  I haven't had a chance to determine if it actually broke or was a fluke.  I really like the ergonomic design and all-in-one layout.

[HiFiTubes]

You see I left the cover off my Blu-Ray drive, those things are a pain. I had a slot load (which seem rare these days) when I first built it.

Cozy looking room there Benn, hope the new server is running smooth.

[benn600]

If and when I can not need the dedicated Blu Ray player anymore, then the question is what will go in that slot.  One idea was to move the HTPC up to its spot and then there would be room to add another amp for 7.1 (two amps side by side).  I'm eagerly awaiting Starcraft II so I can play that in there.  Hence the reason to get a beefy video card.  I'm lovin' this fanless PC concept!

[benn600]

Just finished building a second.  This time, I used a smaller graphics card and chose a different CPU heatsink.  The top lid fits on properly and the different video card HDMI placement resolves an issue with the particular case I use and HDMI at the very top (decorative metal gets in the way).  But, I have left all case fans unplugged and things have been running great for several hours.  I do feel the top of the case getting warm (CPU heatsink is large and wide, parallel to case top lid, so much of the heat goes right up into case).  But, the computer does not feel any warmer than the home theater receiver adjacent.  The computer is sitting under the receiver and they both have large foot pads so there is a nice amount of space -- and the computer is below the receiver so the receiver should be getting more heat if anything.

So yes, the system is 100% silent.  No fans whatsoever.  I hear nothing out of the system.  Except the disc drive--which is rarely used and nearly silent when simply playing a movie.

Now to experiment with revamping my view schemes and theater view setups.

[thurston]

Interesting thread and beautiful theater setup!

Do have a total price for the build?

[benn600]

The HTPC was right around $1,000 total.  The case really sets it apart, in my opinion, but it looks like it isn't available right now or I'd probably be building another one.

[thurston]

What video card did you end up with?

[benn600]

I just went on Newegg and, through the finder drop downs, chose fanless.  There are only a few to pick from and as soon as I built the system, they stopped carrying the card I chose.  The problem with fanless cards and components in general is that they are almost always oversized and challenge whatever case is used to contain them.  I had to reduce the capability of the video card to find one with a very low profile heat sink so it would fit inside the case.  The HTPC case I used is truly the best case I have ever bought--solid built case--but that too is no longer for sale.  People complained that things didn't fit perfectly but it was because they were taking a lot of challenges on.  It is the only HTPC case I have ever seen that I would even dream of placing in a nice home theater setup.  I'm really tired of placing computers with nice stereo equipment and the case I used solved the issue...not to mention being nearly fanless.  From a typical distance, the system isn't heard by most.

[HiFiTubes]

The OrigenAE cases, though pricey, look very sharp and are well constructed.

[benn600]

Thanks for the recommendation, I will definitely consider those cases next time I build a HTPC, which could be in a few short months.  Although the case I used has the added benefit of the back looking like a HT component as well.  These OrigenAE cases look much like a computer on the back.  The ones I use have the power supply completely contained inside, etc.  Regardless, as long as it is a good, very clean and high quality case, it is a worthy contender.  Most HTPC cases are junk--and I've gone through several other cases that are nothing but disappointing.

[swinster]

I have an OrigenAE S16V (http://www.origenae.co.kr/en/htpc_s16v.htm), cost an packet but streets ahead of the competition.