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[traveler]

I'm curious as to how you like it. I have a RioRiot which I am ready to get rid of because of it's extremely poor battery life. It sounds great otherwise, and I like the Moodlogic engine inside. But I've read nothing but good things about the Jukebox 3. I tried the jukebox 2 and didn't like it at all. Anyway I'm curious as to how you like it.

Thanks

[drughunter]

I just bought one.  Outstanding sound.  Very easy to use as player.  Software nothing like MJ 8.  BUT, while MJ8 recognizes the Nomad 8, it can't play songs from it or playlists transferred out of it.  Nor do music files transfer well.  I am, however, using a trial version.

Any comment.  I am going to contact tech support.

[Steve]

drughunter,

We currently do not support playing the songs on Nomad Jukebox because to do so we need to have direct access to the playback stream which is something that Creative does not currently make available. We have requested this and they are looking at modifying the way they do things to accomodate this, but nothing for sure yet.

In regards to file transfers, this should work well. Have you installed the stand alone drivers from Creative's web site? What Operating System do you have and what version of MJ and the Nomad Jukebox Plug-in?

[traveler]

drughunter,

Thanks for the feedback. When you say it sounds great, which other players are you comparing it to? I've tried the IPOD, but while simple and smaller, it didn't sound as good as the Riot. What I'm also trying to figure out is if I can transfer playlists generated on MJ8 to the Jukebox 3? If so, which format do they have to be imported in?

Also, as a frustrated user of Playcenter (since version 2), I highly recommend you look at the "notmad" Windows interface for the Jukebox 3. Impressive, and well reviewed around the net. I've loaded the software planning to get used to it before getting the Jukebox 3, but It needs to see the Jukebox for some reason.

Which sound card are you using on your PC?

[Steve]

traveler,

If you want to transfer an MJ Playlist to Nomad Jukebox, the steps would be:

1) Create your Playlist on Nomad by right-clicking "Playlist" and selecting "Add Playlist".
2) Select your MJ Playlist so that the files are displayed.
3) Select all files and drag them to the Nomad Playlist.

[traveler]

Steve,

Thanks, but you lost me. Am I doing step 1 from MJ? Also, if I drag and drop will the playlist be in m3u, mpl, or pls format? I've asked Creative which type of playlist they support importing from, and their terse reply was "only those downloaded by Playcenter". Helpful, right? Anyway, bear with me here, because I'm new at MJ. I have read the documentation, and I see that I have the option of exporting playlists in different formats. I know that your explanation doesn't involve exporting/importing, but I want to be sure that it will work on the Jukebox 3 before I go out and buy one.

I really appreciate the help. This software (MJ) is fantastic.

[drughunter]

Steve,

Am having trouble with files.  I AM ESPECIALLY HAVING TROUBLE TRANSFERRING PLAYLISTS FROM NOMAD J3 TO PC.

WINDOWS XP
NJ3 FIRMWARE VER. 1.10.06
PLAYCENTER VER. 3.02.09
NJ3 DRIVER  1.00.10.00
LOADED TRIAL VERSION OF MJ8 FROM WEBSITE

WITH NOTMAD (LATEST VERSION FROM WEB) FILE TRANSFERS GO SMOOTH; BUT, PLAYLIST FROM NJ3 TO PC SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE.  ANY COMMNETS?  YOUR HELP IS MUCH APPRECIATED.

MEL THE (pharma research) 'drughunter'.

[zak326]

I have had the jukebox for about a year.  it is great for long trips etc. buty the only way I have found to transfer music is t put everything I want to move n a separate directory byu copying the music over there . then I use the creative playcenter and hjave it discover my directory. then I just transfeer thart whole directory out to the jukebox making sure that all the  songs are mp3.  I have retrieved the music back to the media jukebox(plus version) making sure i have the mp3 plugins installed.  Theioos seems like a  lot of  trouble, and granted I do not have a space problem,. but it is a dependable solution for now.

You can use musicmatch but it  is very slow. I am experimenting on with a way to get the whole thing done usine Media Juke . but it keeps wanting to only transfer WMZA files for some reason.

[Chico]

Traveler,
What Steve meant was select PLAYLIST under Nomad Jukebox in the tree view of MJ.  Right click on PLAYLIST and select Add Playlist.
Then go to step 2.

I believe that it would be very difficult get the nomad to play any other media players playlist for several reasons.  First, if a song is on the "Other" playlist, say m3u or pls, and not on the Nomad, or even spelled differently, it would be unable to play the song (du).  Another problem is (and correct me if I am wrong, anyone) that the other media playlists have the path to the song as part of the file name in the playlist.  This would not work in the Nomad as all songs are basically directly on the HD.

Steve, Traveler, and Drughunter,
I have mentioned before in other threads and have e-mailed Steve directly about having MJ "Play" the Nomad JB.  At this point, at least for me, it isn't important that the Nomad stream to MJ.  It would be nice to just have MJ start the Nomad playing by double clicking a song or playlist from the Nomad.  I connect one of the outputs from the Nomad to the audio input of my PC.  So, when I play the Nomad, the PC is actually the sound system.  MJ has control of the volume and equalizer so it can control the sound.  The biggest problem I see in doing this is having an interface in MJ for the Nomad which can Play, Pause, Stop, Skip Forward and Back, and FF and RW.

Just my two cents...

Chico

[Steve]

Traveler and Drughunter,

Chico's advice is on the money. If that is not clear please let me know and I can try to be more clear. If you prefer, you can email me directly at steve @ jriver.com.  

Chico, thanks for the reply. The reason why controlling the Nomad playback stream is important is that it would allow us to integrate playback of Nomad files with our current Playback control.  This is by far preferable to us rather than creating a separate fully featured Playback control that is specific to Nomad or a less than fully featured control that is not perfect for Nomad users. Our options for now are to trust that Creative is sincere in working on providing us access to the playback stream, or to create our own Playback control which we have decided against for now. If we do not hear something from Creative soon, I will lobby hard to have us create our own control, but it is not solely my decision.

Everyone,

If you are having file transfer problems, please try to isolate what causes the crash and let me know so I can try to duplicate the problem here and then fix it if is verifiable.

Thanks,

Steve

[Chico]

Thanx Steve.
I understand the delema behind MJ's control over the Nomad.  I expect that it would really open a big can of worms to try to create a seperate set of controls exclusive to the Nomad.  First, just the programming that would be involved to integrate it would be daunting and would substantially add to bug potential (deactivating MJ's standard controls for the external devices control).  Second, it could get confusing for the user to have two sets of play controls (standard MJ's and one for the Nomad).  Third, all of the requests that would ensue for all the others players out there to have the same type of functions.  
Streaming would seem to be a better choice.  But I see some potential for problems there as well.  It would have to be a nightmare to try and integrate MJ's play controls to external devices (knowing that the Nomad is just one of many external players to be considered).  It would have to be a bi-directional interface to be able to control the playing of the Nomad while receiving streamed data.  I'm not sure how well the USB interface would be able to handle the data flow.  I'm sure you know more about it than I do.
However, if Creative does come through with the playback stream code, I would be at your beconned command to lobby for and beta test your creation.

Again, ThanX,
Chico

[Steve]

Chico,

Thanks, lets wait and hope.

[traveler]

Steve, Chico, and Drughunter,

Thanks for the info. It has cleared everything up for me.

[drughunter]

Steve, Chico, and Traveller,

Steve,  and Chico, your comments have clarified my problems vis a vis playlists.

Traveller, I bought NOTMAD.  It allows FILES to go back and forth between NJ3 and PC very well and fast over firewire--70 songs in about 2.5 minutes--I'm happy with that for now.

Nomad rules for editing playlists on fly.  However, dure to what we discussed, I have to then select the song names/files on PC guided by playlist on nomad.  A pain, but not a deal killer.

I can delete songs from an 'album' on the nomad3, then rename album folders, drag and drop with NOTMAD or playcenter (Creative should wisen up and license NOTMAD and MJ--their software makes them look stupid, as does their tech support I have spoken to so far).

The navigation and selection and editing features are super on Nomad.  I do not believe in and of itself, anything out there competes with the abilities of the jog dial (don't know about iPOD)

Finallly, while the NOTMAD sounds great on my Senheisser 580s--better than Archos Juke 6000, NEO Jukebox (which sucked, really)and iROCK (which is not half bad for $110 with 128 MB of internal memory and enabled with slot for SM card for 128MB more--iRock is also sweet to use and small and light--almost like Sammy's 'YEP'.).  


Traveller, I intend to do some AB comparison on my main surround sound system with my 12 year son whose ears I am almost done tuning--he is pretty good. I'll let you know.  Out of abount 1000 CNET revierers, 96% give NJ# a thumbs up.  I almost NEVER see such a thumbs up.  I give it one too.  I heear, however, that the Archos Studio Recorder has a more 'mellow midrange' sound--and--has optical out as well.  Very nice and I may try and compare.

Lastly, Steve, you are the only gentleman and scholar I have encountered in Tech Support amongst companies--even if by email.  Everyone else (Red Chair, Creative) went either "Huh" to my questions or said I should have no problem moving playsilsts per se back and forth.  At creative, the 'level 1' tech did not know what 'burning' means until I explained!!!

[Steve]

Drughunter,

Thanks for the "gentleman and scholar". When I am not at JRiver I am a professional tuba player. Tuba players as orchestral musicians are generally regarded by other musicians as somewhere above the janitor (no offense to janitors) and below violists (offense intended to violists), so my musical friends will be greatly amused by this compliment.

Seriously, the reason for the high level of general support on this board is that it is staffed by the programmers who write the software.  This is more expensive than staffing the board with people who are disinterested or unknowledgable about the product but it reflects a commitment by the company to being truly responsive to customer concerns. This last commitment is one that I think is too often lossed by companies that focus entirely on the bottom line without realizing that alienating customers with poor quality products and support directly effects that same bottom line. Someday I will understand that logic, but by then I will be working for a truly successful company like Enron or Worldcom;)

[Chico]

Keep your understanding where it is Steve.  You're doing the world a much better service than did Enron or Worldcom.

[Chico]

Hey!  What happenned to the smiley faces?



What do I have to post a URL to get one now?

[Steve]

As part of advancing technology, smiley faces can now be added by clicking on "Add Emoticon". Life just keeps getting better..

[Shawn Rebelo]

People got frusterated when they add something like (and i did this, but:) <-- making that a smiley. I do not like it either  

So now, we have these

[traveler]

Drughunter and Steve,

You have both been added to my short but high quality heroes list...

Drughunter: By any chance, are you using the Creative Audigy Soundcard (Platinum, I think) with the firewire port? This is what I have. If so, are you using any of the EAX features? I'm curious about those. Have you tuned your son's ears in terms of audio compression yet? If so, what does he recommend? Are you using wav, mp3, or wma8? I use wma at 128kbps and am thrilled with the sound.

So, thanks to your review, I'm going to turn in my Rioriot and get a jukebox 3. My only problem now is finding one here in the L.A. area. No one seems to have them yet.

By the way, in terms of support, Creative at least offers some. SonicBlue's should be called "Lack Of..."

traveler

[drughunter]

Traveler, and others,

As for how Nomad sounds, my perceptions are that in the car and with headphones, it sounds GREAT.  Not sure about a $6,000 audio system in my basement, which is virtually anechoic.  Will try this weekend.

My understanding is that when ripping, the sound card is not a factor.  It this correct???  When playing, the sound card is the final link and it key.

My understanding about codecs is:

A great compromise seems to be compression at 160-192kbs.  Higher, some codecs can yield aubible problems and storage get to be an issue, lower, there are 'holes' in the sound.  At 192, the test I have seen suggest that MP# and source are virtually identical. I have routinely used 160KBS CBR ripping.  With MJ, I am now experimenting with different codecs and VBR.

Further, it would be hard for me to believe that the preamp in the Nomad is equal to the preamp in my Pioneer top of the line 120w/c receiver.  So, I do not expect the Nomad to beat my Sony CD carousal with digital out to my Pioneer receiver (Top of their line, and a very nice, smooth sound) with 15' velodyne sub and B&W NT speakers.

If I feel the sound is good enough for parties and background, I'll be a happy guy.  In the car and with phones, it's a swell piece with solid ergonomics and solid sound, according to just about every reviewer and consumer.  When the price drops to $300 by September, it will be a very good deal.

Look out for Archos multimedia jukebox in July.  It will set a new standard and a new direction for personal mobile audio--far superceding Sony's new NET-MD, or any thing else.  IF...Archos can get their QA/QC act together.

Mel

[Chico]

I just had a new neighbor move in next to me a little while ago.  He sells "VERY" high end sound systems for a living (I'm talking $10K to $100K|PLS| home theater systems).  When we finally got to talking to each other, I brought out my Nomad JB to show him (thinking that he'd probably laugh at it).  He said that he had heard about them, but had never heard one before and he was skeptical about the sound quality of MP3s. Soooo, we plugged the Nomad into his $20K, 7.1 speaker, 2000 watt, liquid cooled system, and proceeded rattled his new house with some Steely Dan in 160 br MP3.  He is very critical about sound quality, and really listenned to all the little nuances of the music coming out of the Nomad.  When all was said and done, he shook my hand and went out and bought a Nomad BJ.  He was truely impressed.

I guess that I couldn't get a better critique of the Nomad's sound quality.

[drughunter]

Chico,

Yours, and the other comments from reviewers and listeners, does it for me.  But, I'll let you know what I think.  I assume you plugged into system with mini plug-stereo RCA adapter.

Thanks!

Mel

[drughunter]

Chico,

Just spent an hour listening to material I know well, but only Techno and R&B.  I used Music Match at 128K--did not know sampling rate at time.  Checked afterwards.

No question, NJ3 is a fine unit.  While the original was crisper--more dynamic--there were absolutely no artifacts in the way the NJ3 rendered the files.  I was VERY surprised to hear--more so when I realized the songs were at 128K.  On a scale of 1-10, it sounded like a 9!

I would guess that at 160K, or 192, the sound might be archival quality.

In short, I agree with your audiophile friend.  I may go on to some Jazz and Sting for final test, and, equalize output with a SPL meter at next comparison.

Mel

[Stebajo]

I have impression that none mentioned before that there are different ways to stream Nomad JB.

I.e. you can give a try to JBHTTP to simply play Nomad JB in streaming but through and using MJB DSPin an easy htm skinnable interface, if you prefer.

I don't know if it support NomadJB3, but has good possibilities of sort files and play whole collect. with a double click.
Run it's  a little server, than copy and paste 'http://localhost:8880/' to adress of your browser.
Interesting to note that sound goes through USB cable together the data files.

Or the direct solutions without extra dsp JBPlayer1.1 easy and comfortable, a real jukebox interface; or what do you think about that I find the most powerful MP3-Library with mp3-fixer?

They all need anyhow JBDirect 3.10 SDK (that I hope the big Steve could convert its new plugin). It's able to directly stream NJB and many other feathures that Creative again dreams.

devconcept.com/

JBHTTP

About JB3, I'm a pretty happy NomadJB C 20Gb owner and if I think what I've paid for it 1y. ago I'll prefer update it to 40G.
Further  I've learned to fear the support Creative.  

Best regards and happy vacations to you all! I'm leaving...

Stebajo