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[fredhammersmith]

I am trying out J River for my media server.
I must say I am very very impressed. After working for many years with Media Monkey and Music Collectorz, I think I finally found the perfect interface for my little audio set-up. I just love it and can't wait to present it to the kids and wife.

I have two small questions though:

• working from my 40K files library created mostly with MM, I noticed problems in two areas:
  multiple artists and genres entries. I think I will be able to work this one with the solutions provided here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=57477.0 but but does it mean I have to re-do all the multiple entries tags I have done before in MM? Because all those tags entries (like Coltrane, John; Burrell, Kenny) seem to be truncated now to the expression before the [;].
• i can't import this folder  : [C:\JUKE-BOX 2\__Coltrane, John\Burrell, Kenny;Coltrane, John - (1958) Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane]. Is the [;] in the folder name a problem?
  

Your experience will be of great help, thanks!

[Vincent Kars]

Multiple Values
Can imagine it is a bit unclear if you are new to MC but the answer is in post 5 (Gappie) of the link you mentioned
-   leave the artist/genre fields as they are, do your edits there and use a ; to separate the values
-   create a new field (Artists, Genres) in the library
-   This fields are set to  NoEdit and Calculate
-   Use this fields in Views

I recommend this because
Artist, Genrte, etc are standard fields used by other media players as well.
You need them anyway
Setting the List style fields like ArtistS to calculated saves you the problem to copy Artist to ArtistS each time.
Views (the navigation tree at the right), this is the only place where multiple values matter
Some screen shots: http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MC14/MC_Multiple.htm

[fredhammersmith]

Multiple Values
Can imagine it is a bit unclear if you are new to MC but the answer is in post 5 (Gappie) of the link you mentioned
-   leave the artist/genre fields as they are, do your edits there and use a ; to separate the values
-   create a new field (Artists, Genres) in the library
-   This fields are set to  NoEdit and Calculate
-   Use this fields in Views

I recommend this because
Artist, Genrte, etc are standard fields used by other media players as well.
You need them anyway
Setting the List style fields like ArtistS to calculated saves you the problem to copy Artist to ArtistS each time.
Views (the navigation tree at the right), this is the only place where multiple values matter
Some screen shots: http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MC14/MC_Multiple.htm

Yes, I've tried this and it works great.
My problem was more specific: I'm trying to import music files with multiple-values field data already entered, using [;], and those values get truncated in the import process. Any workaround?

working from my 40K files library created mostly with MM, I noticed problems in two areas:
multiple artists and genres entries. I think I will be able to work this one with the solutions provided here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=57477.0 but but does it mean I have to re-do all the multiple entries tags I have done before in MM? Because all those tags entries (like Coltrane, John; Burrell, Kenny) seem to be truncated now to the expression before the [;].
i can't import this folder  : [C:\JUKE-BOX 2\__Coltrane, John\Burrell, Kenny;Coltrane, John - (1958) Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane]. Is the [;] in the folder name a problem?

[Vincent Kars]

This new to me.
I imported a lot of files with multiple values in tags and up to day they are displayed to the full extend in MC

To make sure: open a file containing multiple values in a tag with MP3Tag before and after import.

[Listener]

My problem was more specific: I'm trying to import music files with multiple-values field data already entered, using [;], and those values get truncated in the import process. Any workaround?

1. Create custom tags in MediaMonkey or Mp3Tag or dBpoweramp (perhaps m_genre and m_artist.).  Then Copy the contents of the genre artist tags to those new fields using the same program.

2. Create matching new fields in MC and specify that they are list fields.  Import your files.

3. Use these custom fields in your views as you would use genre and artist.

Bill

[Vincent Kars]

Hi Bill

Nothing wrong with your work-around but I wonder if it is needed.
I did a simple test
Made a copy of a track
Using MP3Tag added multiple values to Artist and Genre
Started MC
Both Artist and Genre displays the multiple values in the columns
Look likes MC 15 is not truncating multiple values

[fredhammersmith]

I installed MP3Tag to check the problem.
Here are the screenshots of the experience...
I opened the same file again, tagged in MM.
MP3Tag shows me this:





Then (after erasing it from my Media Center database), I import it in Media Center.
Here are the resulting tags:



 
Something is wrong here..

[Alex B]

Your example file has two separate Artist fields. Some programs support this system with with FLAC and Ogg Vorbis files and may also display one or more identically named separate file tags as a single tag with semicolon separated values.

MC supports only a single tag for each individual tag header and can read only the first Artist field.

If you are willing to retag the FLAC files you can use the "Merge duplicate fields" action in Mp3tag for batch processing the files. It can merge the fields and use the semicolon character as a separator.

EDIT

Regarding the import problem, I just imported a file named C:\JUKE-BOX 2\__Coltrane, John\Burrell, Kenny;Coltrane, John - (1958) Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane\Burrell, Kenny;Coltrane, John - (1958) Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane - 01 - the name of the track.flac without problems.

Have you previously deleted the files from the library? By default the Auto-Import tool does not re-import deleted files. This feature can be disabled in the Auto-Import options.

[fredhammersmith]

Your example file has two separate Artist fields. Some programs support this system with with FLAC and Ogg Vorbis files and may also display one or more identically named separate file tags as a single tag with semicolon separated values.

MC supports only a single tag for each individual tag header and can read only the first Artist field.

If you are willing to retag the FLAC files you can use the "Merge duplicate fields" action in Mp3tag for batch processing the files. It can merge the fields and use the semicolon character as a separator.

EDIT

Regarding the import problem, I just imported a file named C:\JUKE-BOX 2\__Coltrane, John\Burrell, Kenny;Coltrane, John - (1958) Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane\Burrell, Kenny;Coltrane, John - (1958) Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane - 01 - the name of the track.flac without problems.

Have you previously deleted the files from the library? By default the Auto-Import tool does not re-import deleted files. This feature can be disabled in the Auto-Import options.

I thought about that.

As u can see in this screenshot, the program will refuse completely to acknowledge anything appearing after the [;] in the folder name...

Really I do not know what to think.

[Alex B]

I can now reproduce the problem. It appears to be bug in the folder selection part. The actual import process works correctly if auto-import is set to import the base path.

When I tested importing I added C:\JUKE-BOX 2\ to the Auto-Import folders and MC imported the contents of the subfolders correctly. However, MC does not see the complete C:\JUKE-BOX 2\__Coltrane, John\Burrell, Kenny;Coltrane, John - (1958) Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane\ string as a valid folder path when I try to add it.

I guess the problem will be fixed quickly.

For now, as a workaround, you can add the base path to Auto-Import or simply use the Drag & Drop import method (I have recently explained it here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59208.msg400678#msg400678 ).

I attached a couple of screenshots.


Log in to the forum if you can't see the attachments.

[fredhammersmith]

Thks a million times for the MP3Tag fix. Worked out perfectly, and for people stucked in the same situation as I was, yes you can fix those MM tags with this trick, it works perfectly.

For some reason, unknown to mankind, the auto-import fix works with every folder I tried except the one I took as a test (the Burrell/Coltrane one). I'll give it a rest and try again tomorrow.

Tks again, great forum, amazing program.

I can now reproduce the problem. It appears to be bug in the folder selection part. The actual import process works correctly if auto-import is set to import the base path.

When I tested importing I added C:\JUKE-BOX 2\ to the Auto-Import folders and MC imported the contents of the subfolders correctly. However, MC does not see the complete C:\JUKE-BOX 2\__Coltrane, John\Burrell, Kenny;Coltrane, John - (1958) Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane\ string as a valid folder path when I try to add it.

I guess the problem will be fixed quickly.

For now, as a workaround, you can add the base path to Auto-Import or simply use the Drag & Drop import method (I have recently explained it here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59208.msg400678#msg400678 ).

I attached a couple of screenshots.


Log in to the forum if you can't see the attachments.

[Matt]

Good find on this one.

The semi-colon in the path name is causing problems.  We have something called "post-extension" data that some special filenames use like CUE files to carry extra information.  For example: S:\Media Samples\CUE\CDImage.ape;1

The post-extension parser is incorrectly catching "C:\JUKE-BOX 2\__Coltrane, John\Burrell, Kenny;Coltrane, John - (1958) Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane\".

This will be fixed in build 103 or later.

Thanks.

[craigmcg]

I'm constantly amazed by the "mad skills" of the support community and the developers here. Very inspiring for those of us who don't come close to using MC to its potential.

[fredhammersmith]

Good find on this one.

The semi-colon in the path name is causing problems.  We have something called "post-extension" data that some special filenames use like CUE files to carry extra information.  For example: S:\Media Samples\CUE\CDImage.ape;1

The post-extension parser is incorrectly catching "C:\JUKE-BOX 2\__Coltrane, John\Burrell, Kenny;Coltrane, John - (1958) Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane\".

This will be fixed in build 103 or later.

Thanks.

I may have found a new one. (Not that I am proud of it).

Here it goes... can't import it, either by drag & drop, or the auto-import, or the single folder import process..

[Alex B]

I am now using a newer test build that has the fix. The folder name with semicolon seems to work fine. I can add it to the Auto-Import folders.

I also tried C:\JUKE-BOX 2\Black, soul, disco\Jackson, Michael - (1982) Thriller [Japanese First Pressing]\. The path looks perfectly normal to me. I have lots of folder paths with commas, parentheses and brackets. Much to my surprise, it really didn't stick in the list of Auto-Import folders - at first. When I reopened the list the folder was missing. I was able to reproduce that several times. Then I rebooted the PC. Now it works and I can't make it fail again. I can only assume that a reboot (or at least restarting MC) was needed to finalize the installation of the newer build.

[fredhammersmith]

I am now using a newer test build that has the fix. The folder name with semicolon seems to work fine. I can add it to the Auto-Import folders.

I also tried C:\JUKE-BOX 2\Black, soul, disco\Jackson, Michael - (1982) Thriller [Japanese First Pressing]\. The path looks perfectly normal to me. I have lots of folder paths with commas, parentheses and brackets. Much to my surprise, it really didn't stick in the list of Auto-Import folders - at first. When I reopened the list the folder was missing. I was able to reproduce that several times. Then I rebooted the PC. Now it works and I can't make it fail again. I can only assume that a reboot (or at least restarting MC) was needed to finalize the installation of the newer build.

I tried it again, after rebooting. It did not work.
Of course I do not have the beta version. I'm on 15.0.95
The weird thing is, although the Thriller folder does not work, the following folder, very similar in syntax (Jackson, Michael - (1979) Off the Wall [Japanese 258P Original Mixes] [PE]) will import perfectly well.

A bit of supp info:

To all those migrating from MM to MC, do not assume because you see an Album Artist in your MM data that it is in the Tags. I was able to catch a significant bunch of albums in my database where the Album Artist was empty when I double-checked them in MC and in MP3Tag.

[Alex B]

Is your problem the same as mine was? I.e. you don't get a warning about a missing or invalid path and you can add the path to the list, but when you reopen the list the path is not there.

BTW, when I saw this happening I was still able to to drag and drop the folder into Playing Now and the files showed up as expected (when I created the folder structure I copied also the Thriller audio files from another location).

[fredhammersmith]

Is your problem the same as mine was? I.e. you don't get a warning about a missing or invalid path and you can add the path to the list, but when you reopen the list the path is not there.

BTW, when I saw this happening I was still able to to drag and drop the folder into Playing Now and the files showed up as expected (when I created the folder structure I copied also the Thriller audio files from another location).

Correct on both counts.
Dragging the folder in the Playing Now pane, I can "Play It", but the Import process won't import the flac files.

[fredhammersmith]

Others folders don't import...
I tried this one:
Green, Grant - (1964) Talkin' About [2010 Music Matters 2xLP 45 RPM Hires] with the single folder import. Did not work.
I took out the ['] just to see.
The program told me it imported the files, but I could not see them in the Media Library.

Hopefully, next upgrade will work out all those syntax issues.

[fredhammersmith]

bump.
any news on that problem?

[Alex B]

The build 106 is available here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59470

Have you tried it?

[fredhammersmith]

Just downloaded it and tried it.
I could not import using the import feature BUT i could using the Playing Now... Import process.
Strangely, one of the three problematic folder (M jackson) is in the Media Library now, but does not appear in the Files section of the Audio tree. The two others problematic folders (Coltrane/Burrell, Green) seem perfectly OK.

[Alex B]

So the folder path is now working (i.e. you can add it to importer), but the files do not appear in the library views or do you mean something else?

Could you provide exact step by step instructions for reproducing the remaining problem?

[fredhammersmith]

So the folder path is now working (i.e. you can add it to importer), but the files do not appear in the library views or do you mean something else?

Could you provide exact step by step instructions for reproducing the remaining problem?

I'll try, although i went quickly through the motions...

1) I tried Auto-import and Import a single folder on all 3 problematic folders. It failed each time.
2) I used Drag & Drop Playing Now or Windows XP contextual menu (Open With... MC) to open all 3 problematic folders. They all played and showed tags in the Playing Now View..
3) Looking in the different Library views, I can see the [MJackson] album, but not the [K Burrell;Coltrane] one neither the [Grant Green] one.
4) Looking in the Files View, I can't see any of them.
5) Doing an Auto-Import process after all this, MC does not import anything.

 ?

[fredhammersmith]

I just caught another folder that won't import.
The folder syntax:
Artist - (Year) Title [edition]

I can play it from the Windows Contextual Menu. But it won't appear in any of the Library Views.
Weird thing: i took out a [.] that was in the edition name.
Then I could see the folder appears in the File View for a while.

I restarted, hoping to see it appear in the Artist View, or the Album View.
It disappeared completely.

I'm halfway through my trial time. I love the features, the enormous possibilities, the layout. But i'm not sure anymore media center is up to the task of being my main user interface for a music server. I mean: i don't even know how much albums it skip while importing.

The other media player I'm using is not as lovely as MC, that is for sure. But it does what I'm asking it to do: manage my flac files properly. Should I downgrade to MC14? What are the new features in MC15?

[rick.ca]

I suggest you stick with it and expect the problem will be identified and resolved. It does seem to be a strange one, so that may take some time.

I may be missing something from what's already been done, but I tried this simple test. I added some test files to my music folder using folder names similar to those you've mentioned, and then ran Auto Import. From the summary...

Code: [Select]

Imported:
    D:\Audio\Test, genre\Artist - (Year) Title [ed.ition]\Test 2.flac
    D:\Audio\Test, genre\Test 4.flac
    D:\Audio\Test, genre\Green, Grant - (1964) Talkin' About [2010 Music Matters 2xLP 45 RPM Hires]\Test 3.flac
    D:\Audio\Test, genre\__Coltrane, John\Burrell, Kenny;Coltrane, John - (1958) Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane\Test 1.flac
My test files are copies of an existing, tagged file. Thinking that might have an impact on the results (I'm don't know how), I stripped the tags, deleted the files from the library, renamed and re-imported them. That worked as well.

My Auto Import configuration is to include D:\Audio, so this was not a test of the folder issue that's already been identified. I did try adding these folders (and C:\JUKE-BOX 2\Black, soul, disco\Jackson, Michael - (1982) Thriller [Japanese First Pressing]) to the import configurations, and could not reproduce the "folder not sticking" issue. So I assume this was fixed in build 103 ("Fixed: Path names with semi-colons in them could be problematic").

Could the issue be with the files themselves? How are they named? Is MC having a problem analyzing them, and tagging them as Data rather than Audio? You can check this by displaying Media Type in the Recently Imported playlist, or by looking for the files in the Documents section.

[fredhammersmith]

 Trying to see it from a different angle (triggered by your words: Maybe MC has trouble avalyzing your files)...
I noticed right away 5 needledrops hires folders that were not imported.
Is there something special about 24/96 FLAC files that is triggered by some option in MC?

[rick.ca]

Is there something special about 24/96 FLAC files that is triggered by some option in MC?

Not that I'm aware of. Were these files not imported (i.e., ignored) or not imported as Audio? If not imported at all, I suggest you turn on logging (see the Help menu), try to import those folders, and capture a log. It might reveal what's happening.

[fredhammersmith]

Not that I'm aware of. Were these files not imported (i.e., ignored) or not imported as Audio? If not imported at all, I suggest you turn on logging (see the Help menu), try to import those folders, and capture a log. It might reveal what's happening.

Not imported at all.

[rick.ca]

Can you post a log?

[fredhammersmith]

Can you post a log?

I can mail it. cannot post it (too big a post)

[rick.ca]

Zip it and attach it to your message. Click on Additional Options... below the edit box.

[fredhammersmith]

Zip it and attach it to your message. Click on Additional Options... below the edit box.

no options to attach a file. maybe because im a newbie.

[rick.ca]

no options to attach a file. maybe because im a newbie.

Isn't that convenient. 

I suppose you'll have to wait for someone at JRiver to invite you to email it to them. Or you might look at it yourself, and if you see anything suspicious, cut & paste that part here. If you only have logging turned on for the import of one folder, the log should not be very long.

Also, consider what Vocalpoint has said about flac files here. You could use Trader's Little Helper to see if that issue applies to you.

[fredhammersmith]

Isn't that convenient. 

I suppose you'll have to wait for someone at JRiver to invite you to email it to them. Or you might look at it yourself, and if you see anything suspicious, cut & paste that part here. If you only have logging turned on for the import of one folder, the log should not be very long.

Also, consider what Vocalpoint has said about flac files here. You could use Trader's Little Helper to see if that issue applies to you.

I think you nailed it.
I took one of the missing tracks.
I analyzed it with Trader's Little Helper. Files were OK.
I took one of the files, re-encoded it in FLAC.
I took another file, decoded it to WAVE, re-encoded it.
The file going through the WAVE stage was finally successfully imported.

Of course, all tags were lost int he process.

This is surprising and I must say quite a let-down. If MC can't handle FLAC files with more security (warnings somebody?) what good is?

Let's see if i can paste the log file
Nope, i can't.

[Matt]

Please email one of the FLAC files that can not be imported to matt at jriver dot com.

Thanks.

[fredhammersmith]

Please email one of the FLAC files that can not be imported to matt at jriver dot com.

Thanks.

E-Mail a FLAC file?
Maybe you could provide an FTP access instead?
Otherwose, I'll use yousendit, or something similar.

PS FLAC sent. I'll keep other users informed.

[Matt]

Thanks for the file.

It seems to import and play correctly for me using build 106.

I tried the file from a local drive and also a UNC path to a Linux share.  I dragged the file into Playing Now and it showed tags, art, and started playing.

Could you make sure you're on the latest build of Media Center.  Is there any trick to seeing the issue?

[fredhammersmith]

Thanks for the file.

It seems to import and play correctly for me using build 106.

I tried the file from a local drive and also a UNC path to a Linux share.  I dragged the file into Playing Now and it showed tags, art, and started playing.

Could you make sure you're on the latest build of Media Center.  Is there any trick to seeing the issue?

If I drag the file into Playing Now, indeed it seems to work.
But the file won't appear in any other view (Artist, Album, File, Genre)...
And it won't import by the File/Library/Import menu item.

EDIT; Others folders found, with similar problems: can play them in the Playing Now area, but they won't appear anywhere in the library.

[fredhammersmith]

The mystery thickens...

This folder:
Morgan, Lee - (1964) The Sidewinder [AP 2x180gr. LP 45RPM, Hires]
I can't import in the Media Library bit I can play it in the Playing Now window

If I take out the [.] and the [,] from the folder name
Morgan, Lee - (1964) The Sidewinder [AP 2x180gr LP 45RPM Hires]
I can import it (it appears in the Recently Imported playlist, with tags and all)
but it won't appear in any other vew of the Media library.

Two weeks of random results and shooting in the dark. Nobody has any clue about this? I used all the little tricks suggested (name changes, flac re-encoding). What is wrong with this program?
Yes, I'm using build 106.

[fredhammersmith]

OK, out of 14 albums in a folder, I see very different results.
I deleted them all from the Media Library.
Then I imported them all.
7 out of 14 did not import.
I was able to play them all by the contextual of Windowx XP.
Upon playing them, a couple of them appeared in the "Files" view of the Media Library.
But all the hires ones refused to appear. They played, but won't appear in any view.

I have 7 days left in my trial period.
Since I have seen almost no feed-back on my problem, it may be system-specific.
So I'll nuke my Media Center installation and will lose all personal configurations.
I'll reinstall the program then, and try to import my files again.
If that does not work, well, too bad, I think I'll switch back to my old jukebox software.

[fredhammersmith]

Nuking everything and starting again worked.
I do not know what happened before, but as i will redo my different customizations, i'll see if something happens corrupting the database.