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[Vocalpoint]

Guys,

I do not know exactly what the heck is happening here but MC is quickly becoming one of those apps that is about to get filed away permanently. Last night - after an excellent Christmas day of listening on 15.0.169....I simply put my machine to sleep...went to sleep...came down here this AM with a cup of coffee and right clicked on my little Media Server icon to "Show Media Center" and when I did that - it opened with my default library...completely empty.

This is a server based library with a direct connection (\\SERVER\Music\Library Files). The library files and music files are all there. Another library with direct connect opens fine (\\SERVER\Mobile Music\Library Files). To make sure I wasn't seeing things...I immediately went to another machine and this library was blank on there as well. I rolled that machine back to 159 and still nothing. I rolled this machine ahead to 171 and nothing. I rolled this machine back to 169 and restarted the computer. Still nothing. Then I restored a backup of this library from 12/21/2010 and was able to see the library...but it was a disaster...the Tag Window would not work (could not get MC to display any additional tags). So I shut down MC and restarted...now the library is blank again.

EDIT: For what it's worth - the very last thing I did in MC last night - was play a FLAC album OUTSIDE of Media Center. I accessed it thru the Tree via My Computer (Drives/Folders)? When I fired up MC again today - it returned to that exact spot  - but the interface only displayed the icons of the tracks, the genre and the time of each track. Nothing else. The UI looked very strange - as if all connections has been severed (which it seems they were).

This is about as annoying as this can get. I have not idea what version is causing the issues...but I am betting it's anything higher than 159. I am going to uninstall MC complete and start back at 159...plus perform yet another restore....this nonsense all started for me when I activated Media Server...that is coming off now....

EDIT: Just restored my 12/21/2010 backup into 159 and everything is exactly right. Tags are good...all settings are back. I am staying put of 159 until further notice.

EDIT: Spoke too soon. After a restart of MC - the library is now blank again

Q: Why does a library restore - fail to put the files back in the correct location? On all installs here - there is NO use of a default library - it is immediate cleared and the only two entries that appear in Library Manager are \\SERVER\Music\Library Files and \\SERVER\Mobile Music\Library Files.

Yet - when I just performed a restore - MC takes my backup and sticks those files right back into C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Roaming etc etc - instead of restoring them to the actual library location which is \\SERVER\Music\Library Files

Why is this?

Now - everything is blank - I am off to find a library that works....

VP

[Alex B]

I don't know what is happening with your libraries (I can only guess that resuming from the sleep state didn't correctly or immediately restore the LAN access and MC couldn't access the library location), but are you saying that the fix that Matt explained here does not work? As you know, I was able to reproduce that problem before the fix: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=61086.msg411608#msg411608. When the fixed build was released I tested it and couldn't reproduce the problem anymore.

Yet - when I just performed a restore - MC takes my backup and sticks those files right back into C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Roaming etc etc - instead of restoring them to the actual library location which is \\SERVER\Music\Library Files

A library restore always rewrites the library files in the currently loaded library and in its current location, wherever that location happens to be. In general, the library files are location independent. The same library can work from "\\some PC\some folder\a library folder\..." and as well as from "C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Roaming\...". MC only needs to know where the library files are stored so that it can access them when the library is loaded from the list of libraries.

I.e. if you want to restore a library to "\\some PC\some folder\a library folder\..." You must first load a library that is stored in that location (or point a new library to that location). The optional "settings restore" restores also the list of the libraries including the stored locations (these are stored in the Windows registry), but it does not restore the other libraries, which are not included in the backup archive.

If you have more than one library you must must create an individual backup file for each library and restore them one at a time (each to a separate loaded library). However, when you restore one library with the "restore settings" option ticked the library locations should be correctly restored and the other existing old libraries should then be listed and accessible (assuming the library files are still present in the old locations).

[Vocalpoint]

Alex,

Let's take these items one at a time....

I don't know what is happening with your libraries (I can only guess that resuming from the sleep state didn't correctly or immediately restore the LAN access and MC couldn't access the library location), but are you saying that the fix that Matt explained here does not work? As you know, here is how I was able to reproduce that problem before the fix: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=61086.msg411608#msg411608. When the fixed build was released I tested it and couldn't reproduce the problem anymore.accessible (assuming the library files are still present in the old locations).

For this item...my machine was up and active for a full hour before I even attempted to access MC. All the LAN access, shares and all files on those shares were accessible.

As far as 169 goes...I was running it since the fix was released and I had no issues with it - until today. All other 169 build here also had the same "library" issue when trying to access this location....obviously something is up with one or more files out on the "library files" share.

A library restore always rewrites the library files in the currently loaded library and in its current location, wherever that location happens to be. In general the library files are location independent. The same library can work from "\\some PC\some folder\a library folder\..." and as well as from "C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Roaming\...". MC only needs to know where the library files are stored so that it can access them when the library is loaded from the list of libraries.

I.e. if you want to restore a library to "\\some PC\some folder\a library folder\..." You must first load a library that is stored in that location (or point a new library to that location). The optional "settings restore" restores also the list of the libraries including the stored locations (these are stored in the registry), but it does not restore the other libraries, which are not stored in the backup archive.

Ah - okay. Did not know this. So - obviously when I tried the restore - I was pointing to my local library location - hence the file write to there.

If you have more than one library you must must create an individual backup file for each library and restore them one at a time (each to separate loaded library). However, when ou restore one library with the "restore settings" option ticked the library locations should be correctly restored and the other existing old libraries should then be listed and accessible (assuming the library files are still present in the old locations).

I can confirm without a doubt that this does not work. I have had two distinct libraries for well over two years now. And when I load - say the WHS Music library (\\SERVER\Music\Library Files) and I choose Backup library - I am assuming that ONLY this library gets backed up. However - if I install a fresh copy of MC with NO libraries at all and I restore this backup...not only does WHS Music (and all it's paths, settings etc) get restored - I also get all of WHS Mobile Musics metadata as well. Where the Library Manager window was blank prior to the restore...after the Restore I have both library references, paths etc appear in Library Manager.

All I can think of is that my two libraries are somehow fused together and while I would love to be able to backup/restore them as separate entities - I have never been able to do that.

Regarding today's troubles...I do not know where to start - since this is VERY frustrating. I have no sure way of know what's right or wrong in these locations.

Is it possible to just extract the contents of a backup right out of the zip file to my Library Files location? Without using MC at all. While I have my WHS Music back - I had to rescan the entire fileset to get the songs back in place and it seems to be alright but I am feeling like this thing is going to collapse at any second. And I am back on 159 now...getting gunshy about any higher builds...

Appreciate any insight on this....

VP

[Alex B]

I can confirm without a doubt that this does not work. I have had two distinct libraries for well over two years now. And when I load - say the WHS Music library (\\SERVER\Music\Library Files) and I choose Backup library - I am assuming that ONLY this library gets backed up. However - if I install a fresh copy of MC with NO libraries at all and I restore this backup...not only does WHS Music (and all it's paths, settings etc) get restored - I also get all of WHS Mobile Musics metadata as well. Where the Library Manager window was blank prior to the restore...after the Restore I have both library references, paths etc appear in Library Manager.

All I can think of is that my two libraries are somehow fused together and while I would love to be able to backup/restore them as separate entities - I have never been able to do that.

You restored the backed up library (i.e. the database files) so that it replaced the currently loaded library and you restored the settings including the list of libraries and their locations. You did not restore the database files from the other libraries. It may look like that since the database files are still available in the old locations. To test this you can temporarily move the other library folders and repeat the restore process. Only the old library locations will be listed. The actual library files will not be restored.

Actually, a restore may not appear to work if you don't restore to the correctly named library. For example, if I restore my "XYZ" library to the "Default" library only the library files in the "Default" library will be replaced. The files in my "XYZ" library location will stay as before. If I also restore the settings, after the recommended restart MC will automatically load the XYZ library (and thus its unrestored library files) because it was active when the backup file was originally created and the info of the currently loaded library was stored among the other settings. However, in this case the restored database files are only in the Default library.

[Vocalpoint]

You restored the backed up library (i.e. the database files) so that it replaced the currently loaded library and you restored the settings including the list of libraries and their locations. You did not restore the database files from the other libraries. It may look like that since the database files are still available in the old locations. To test this you can temporarily move the other library folders and repeat the restore process. Only the old library locations will be listed. The actual library files will not be restored.

Thanks for the this info - this explains what I was "seeing". I guess the locations/path in the Library Manager window are just coming from the "settings"....

Which leads me to this question - what's the recommended way to transfer files from one library to a new one (in a new location) without losing anything settings wise? Here's what I want to do. I have been planning on installing MC on my WHS server and just having it serve out the single lossless library (\\SERVER\Music) to the various machines (and my WDTV Live) via Media Server.

I also want to clean up ALL the files (lossy) contained within my secondary \\SERVER\Mobile Music library and move specific sets these files out to separate machines. For example - out of the 80GB stash of MP3's...at least a third are my wife's music. I'd like to move that third to her "default" local MC Library - without losing tags, custom fields etc. Then I would like to move the remaining two thirds (ALL my stuff) over to my "local" default library.

After your info on being in the right "place" when doing a restore - I think the steps would be:

1. Open MC on my local machine and ensure I am sitting in my empty "default" library
2. Restore a current backup of WHS Mobile Music to this location
3. Use the Library Move, Rename and Copy Files to Move my specific files (leaving my wife's on server)
4. Repoint the database location?
5. Something else?
6. Repeat 3, 4 and/or 5 on my wife's machine?

Basically take this library...and duplicate it twice on two different machines?

Any tips on this BEFORE I get crazy would really help.

Cheers,

VP

[Alex B]

Is it possible to just extract the contents of a backup right out of the zip file to my Library Files location? Without using MC at all.

It should work fine. You can simply extract the library files from the backup zip file and replace the files in your actual library location. The Settings folder that is included in the zip package is not used from the library location and you should exclude it (or delete it before using the library).

For instance, you can use the "Default" library for backing up just the settings (including the list of libraries). Import one or two local files to create some library content to it and periodically store backup files from this library to a safe location. You can back up the library folders that are located on your server separately outside MC.

EDIT

I was writing this while you posted. I have not read your last reply yet.

[Alex B]

1. Open MC on my local machine and ensure I am sitting in my empty "default" library
2. Restore a current backup of WHS Mobile Music to this location
3. Use the Library Move, Rename and Copy Files to Move my specific files (leaving my wife's on server)
4. Repoint the database location?
5. Something else?
6. Repeat 3, 4 and/or 5 on my wife's machine?

1, 2 and 3. are OK.

4. -- is not needed or (easily) possible. The default library is already stored on the local drive. You can also create a new empty library to your preferred location and restore to it. (I prefer simple and short paths that are outside the cryptic Windows user specific locations, e.g. C:\_TestLib\, C:\_XYZ\ and so on. I use the underscore character to have them listed in the beginning of the drive root.)

5. Delete the excess files from this library (or let Auto-Import handle them after also your wife's media files have been physically moved).

6. Repeat 1, 2, 3 and 5 on your wife's machine.

[Vocalpoint]

1, 2 and 3. are OK.

4. -- is not needed or (easily) possible. The default library is already stored on the local drive. You can also create a new empty library to your preferred location and restore to it. (I prefer simple and short paths that are outside the cryptic Windows user specific locations, e.g. C:\_TestLib\, C:\_XYZ\ and so on. I use the underscore character to have them listed in the beginning of the drive root.)

5. Delete the excess files from this library (or let Auto-Import handle them after also your wife's media files have been physically moved).

6. Repeat 1, 2, 3 and 5 on your wife's machine.

Great! I was simply going to move the files to the My Music folder on each PC and have MC's default lib point here. Also nice that this location is already a standard backup location for WHS.

Will give it a shot and update later...

Cheers!

VP

[Vocalpoint]

Alex,

I can confirm another "loss" of library. I just brought up MC again - the machine was up for over 30 minutes and all network processes are functioning normally. I had Media Server running. I right clicked on the icon and chose "Show Media Center" and for just a second I could still see all my thumbnails in my Recent Albums View...but when I clicked on a album to play it...MC did nothing. When I clicked on File - to show the album contents - I could only see two fields....genre and bitrate?

I then switch to my lossy library (\\SERVER\Mobile Music\Library Files) all is well...it loads fine. When I return to WHS Music (\\SERVER\Music\Library Files) I see nothing. I can confirm all the library files (for WHS Music) are in place and they are all of normal size. I even removed the WHS Music link from Library Manager, re-added it and tried to reload and still nothing.

I ran Logging and captured a bunch of data...can I email it to you? I am going to leave this scenario as is (No restores) until you can examine the logs. Hopefully you can see something that explains this strange loss of library.

Some other notes...after that restore/reload from a couple days ago - I found that MC had not performed any audio analysis on some 4800 files. I could have swore that every single file that I have has had analysis done. And I thought this replay gain data was written to the file itself so I was very disappointed to have to have MC run for 3 hours to "re-analyze" these 4800 files. I did a manual backup right after that - so hopefully my next restore - if I need to do it - will contain ALL my replay gain data.

As far as this "problem" - I cannot help but think that's it's related to Media Server/DLNA in some way. I have never had this happen until I turned that on.

Let me know if you need me to email that log.

Cheers!

VP

[Vocalpoint]

Alex,

I have just extracted my most recent library backup and compared the entire fileset to what's sitting in my server directory and for the most part - they are identical.

Other MC clients also do not "see" anything in this location.

Bizarre.

Cheers!

VP

[Vocalpoint]

Another odd thing....the only "files" being detected in my network share are podcasts. Everything else is being ignored.

VP

[Alex B]

I have read your new replies twice, but I am not sure if I can fully understand your setup. You didn't mention anything about the Library Server and DLNA Server components before.

The possibly running JRiver Media Center server components should be irrelevant when you are directly accessing the library by loading it from the library menu (unless it is a served library).

If you are actually contacting a JRiver Library Server as a Library Server client, the client instance downloads a full temporary copy of the server library (with converted file addresses) and stores it locally. It should show the same library files that are shown locally on the MC server instance.

The DLNA server is a different beast. Its features are seriously limited by the DLNA standard and I wouldn't recommend it for playing files on an MC client when the fully featured "traditional" Library Server is available.

So, when the "loss" happens, where does it happen (on a standalone MC that has a standard loaded library, on an MC instance that is running on your server PC and is running the server components, or on a client MC instance that has loaded a served library) and what is actually lost (the library files that are in the database or the connection to the files when you are trying to play them)?

Also, if you are running a standard library (which is just stored on a network share), do you have Auto-Import running in the background and do you have it set to "fix broken links?. I wonder if that option could remove files that are temporarily inaccessible for some reason.

Regarding logs, I don't know if they would be useful if they don't actually show a crash or other unexpected events. The JRiver developers may request them.

[Vocalpoint]

I have read your new replies twice, but I am not sure if I can fully understand your setup. You didn't mention anything about the Library Server and DLNA Server components before.

Okay...here's the layout:

1. All physical files for the two libraries - reside on my Windows Home Server - lossless files are in \\SERVER\Music and Lossy in \SERVER\Mobile Music
2. There is NO instance of MC on the server
3. From my personal workstation - within Library Manager - I have three entries...

    "Default Library" Path = \C:\Users\Bruce\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 15\Library\ - This library is not used and contains no files
    "WHS Music" Path = \\SERVER\Music\Library Files\ - This is my primary library containing 18000+ tracks
    "WHS Mobile Music" = \\SERVER\Mobile Music\Library Files\ - This is my secondary - used ONLY for syncing my iPod (and for my wife's tunes)

4. On my personal workstation and ONLY mine (with WHS Music as the defualt library) - I have enabled Library Server and DLNA Server from Options->Media Network. Thereby allowing any additional workstations/devices to "see" WHS Music. There are 4 additional PC's and my WDTV Live that use this "share". My PC is the only PC with any library serving at this moment.
   

The possibly running JRiver Media Center server components should be irrelevant when you are directly accessing the library by loading it from the library menu (unless it is a served library).

That's how it should be. I need to be real clear that when I go blank on my personal workstation - with a DIRECT connect...PC B, C and D - CANNOT see the library either when trying to connect directly to the share \\SERVER\Music\Library Files. This tells me that there is something going on with one or more files on that network share.

So, when the "loss" happens, where does it happen (on a standalone MC that has a standard loaded library, on an MC instance that is running on your server PC and is running the server components, or on a client MC instance that has loaded a served library) and what is actually lost (the library files that are in the database or the connection to the files when you are trying to play them)?

The loss (within the last few days) occurs ONLY on my PC - I ONLY use direct connect to the library but that library IS being served. The library - when viewed from within the MC UI is completely blank - except for - oddly - podcasts. But only recent ones downloaded today???

Also, if you are running a standard library (which is just stored on a network share), do you have Auto-Import running in the background and do you have it set to "fix broken links?. I wonder if that option could remove files that are temporarily inaccessible for some reason.

Nope. I do all of my importing manually. I copy files to the \\SERVER\Music directory and then click Run Auto Import now from a toolbar button within MC. I also do all of my audio analysis manually by right clicking on a new imported album and I choose Analyze audio.

What is really bothering me is the other PC's. When this disappearance occurs...all clients that are hitting those library files directly get a blank library - which say - files are being corrupted/modified/or even deleted in my \\SERVER\Music\Library Files folder.

I have not yet had a chance to start the day with one of my other clients - using it to hit this library first....just to see if this disappearing act is happening on another box.

Anyhoo....this is not normal and it's the third or 4th blank scenario within the last 10 days....there is something going on....hopefully a dev will chime in.

VP

[Vocalpoint]

Well....I couldn't wait any longer for anymore updates so I restored yesterday's most recent backup and of course - all is well.

I will now leave Media Server and any DLNA elements off for the next few days and see if I experience this vanishing act again.

Cheers!

VP

[Vocalpoint]

Just wanted to report - after a full night of listening last night and a first attempt to open my main library this morning - all is well. No disappearing act.

Running 15.0.171 with Media Server and DLNA off. This is the first day in several with no problems....just sayin

Cheers,

VP