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Author Topic: IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???  (Read 2233 times)

ChicoSelfs

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IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« on: June 09, 2002, 07:33:35 am »

It's Leggal share WMA or other formats in the net?
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sekim

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2002, 07:41:22 am »

chicoselfs,

You're probably treading on thin ice here. As far as I know p2p music file sharing is illegal here in the US. With the exception of free downloads from authorized sites. If this thread doesn't get closed others may have more to add.
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Harry The Hipster

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2002, 07:59:27 am »

Probably illegal here, although the last word isn't in yet. It's even illegal to work around technology intended to limit file-swapping, even though the reason you want to work around it isn't illegal itself (for instance, to be able to copy a CD for use in your car).

HTH
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JimH

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2002, 08:04:09 am »

We're keeping our felt tip pens in a locked drawer.

We hope everything will be clear some day.

Listening to: '04 - O Pato (The Duck)' from 'From Paris to Rio' by 'Karrin Allyson' on Media Jukebox
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Jim Hillegass
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sekim

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2002, 08:11:11 am »

I find it humorous that Sony goes to all that trouble to protect CDs. Yet at the same time they are producing car stereos that have a built in hard drive for ripping purposes. Is this an example of oxymoronic thinking?
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ChicoSelfs

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2002, 08:11:37 am »

Now i understand! to my personal use is not Illegal ( rip my CD's ) but share with others that do not have the original cd's it's illegal.
I want to make question because i found a site that as complete cd's to download and i don't now if they are leggal or illegal now i know. ( I'm a novate in this matters )
Thanks for your answers

Chicoselfs
Portugal
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PhatPhreddy

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2002, 08:39:17 am »

The question is what is the content of the WMA ?? WMA is just a format you may as well say is it legal to press a vinyl ?? Is it legal to distribute an audio tape ?? Is it legal to distribute a 24/96 recording... The format does not matter the content does !!!

If you distrubute your own work of course its legal... If you distribute other peoples copyrighted work without explicit permission, of course it illegal...

There are some grey areas where audio trading and 'bootlegging' will come under the 'fair use' argument... If what I have read is correct it is possible to make and distribute recordings that are not commercially availabe as long as you do not make any profit from the arrangement... This leads to 'bootleg' traders who will swap soundbard concert recordings (grateful dead / pink floyd / anyone really) among each other but these items are not for sale... Thats why its trading...

In this instance the artist is not releasing the content and there are no other channels... I am unsure if the situation is totally legal of the reason that no money may be part of the deal means there is no commercial loss involved to the artist in the transaction...

Very recently there is another style of music that is turning up that cannot be bought only traded but this one falls outside the law... There is a new cut up / remix / mash up style of music called (confusingly enough) bootlegging which is getting very diverse pieces of music and layering them to create totally new sounds... The issue here is often the rights to obtain so many peices of music (there are 46 cleared tracks in the 60 minute 2manyDJs mix) that getting sample clearance becomes a practical impossibility and or a financial black hole that no small circulation DJ mix album can pay... The main released cut ups are by the Daweale Bros (soulwax) who made the 2ManyDJ's sets (www.2manydjs.org) and the avalanches from Oz... This is an underground thing that I think is going to get much more exposure... UK radio is picking up on it and David Bowie seems to pimp it every time he is on air...

Personally I could go on into a rant about how the RIAA is stifling new musical styles whilst at the same time moaning that thier revenues are down.. Refusing to listen to customers that are looking for a different models of content purchase and ownership... Basically treating their customer base is guilty until proven innocent... Continually packages and repackages the same pop crap and wonders why we dont want to go and purchase 'Now that what I call pop pixie garbage 4'.. But I wont Next Page !!!

I will sit back and smile knowing that HDCP and Hollywood Hollings have had a major setback with thier ludicrus HDCP protection system (that would have effectivley made every HDTV sold to date useless !! ) according to the New York Times Online... Even Microsoft who obviously have a strong vested interest in DRM (and owning the keys) have come out and denounced the MPAA and RIAA of just taking it to far   http://www.theregus.com/content/4/25152.html

Anyway I guess that was the long answer Next Page !!
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JimH

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2002, 09:23:07 am »

Phat,
> If what I have read is correct it is possible to make and distribute recordings that are not commercially available as long as you do not make any profit from the arrangement...

This is not correct. It has nothing to do with whether you make a profit from it or not.

Some bands may allow it or look the other way, but it is not usually legal.

On this topic, there will be a special version of Future Tense on June 19 at around noon on National Public Radio.  John Gordon will be talking about the problem of copyright ownership and enforcement vs. rights of the user.

It isn't as simple as people sometimes say.  The record labels simply don't have the right to do what users expect.  Their contracts with artists sometimes don't cover electronic rights.  I agree with Phat Phreddy that the RIAA has been heavy handed, but it is much more complicated than that.

I won't be invited to cocktail parties for saying it, but I think that users are as much a part of the problem as the labels.  Users often ignore the rights issue, so it isn't surprising when record labels who feel like they are being robbed are not very nice.

There needs to be a new beginning with a respectful conversation on both sides.
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Jim Hillegass
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PhatPhreddy

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2002, 09:34:35 am »

Jim, I am in 100% agreement that many of the current users of MP3 are nieve and selfish to think that it is acceptable to continually rip off artists and label... I can see labels feeling threatened but I also dont see them making the right choices (better quality / higher bitrate recordings... Nice packages / liner notes... Fostering online communities around artists...  many many thingts can be done to give a CD higher value to the purchaser... This is without even getting to the choose and burn method that could be adopted (not my style I like artists albums not individual seperate tracks but many do)..

But back to the concert trades... Are you 100% sure about this ?? If a band performs a concert and a soundboard recording exists.. What copyright exists on that item and who owns the contents rights ?? The artist should in theory have copyright of thier own work but in fact its usually not the case once contracts are signed with labels so.. Does the promoter hold the copyright.. How about the venue on whose equipment it was recorded... It was my understanding that this was an aera where the content does not have a verifyable / legal 'owner' and therefore is open to non commercial distribution ?

In actual fact if anyone has any links to facts on this I would like to read them...
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zevele1

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2002, 10:54:21 am »

Chicoselfs
If you speak about the spanish site weblisten or something like it,yes it is legal
You pay around $25 a month

But they are very poor concerning tags,you will get this kind of tags :3412tre456765,good luck!

If you think to take one month on this site,i will give you some tip to put tags from the start.I toke one month in last september and downloaded 10.000 songs

When i say it is legal,i know it is
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zevele1

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2002, 11:27:45 am »

concerning 'concerts traders' and not 'bootleg traders'
It is legal if the band is ok
the bands who allow it do it for 'philosiphical' raisons
at Gratefull dead,phish,abb,blue travellers and many more bands-but most of them are 'jam bands'-there is a limited places in the 'tape corner'.you can plug you tape recorder,minidisc,small hight fidelity tapes[i do not remember the name] to the soundboard
You are free to give away this concerts.To trade it=dead 6 july 1978 against 5 september 1992
You can send it to anyone asking for it.The rule is 2 blank tapes or 2 blank cds for one with music.If you are 10 thousand kilometers from each other ,this do not make sens.You just send money for the price of the blank support

And if you try to mess around you will get YOUR NAME in big in any traders circles.Zines,letters,net

The rule is to not make money from it
2 years ago someone put a Dead concert to sale on the net,he got the Dead on his head

With internet,you can now trade concerts on nhr[?] format.A kind of zipped wav
There is even a kind of p2p when you can download this kind of concerts
But the real place for all of it is FTP

Now a U2 concert is not legal,i not sure that the Pink Floyd ones are

You have also the not so 'sure' part of it
Small bands that do not exist anymore.People having interest to it are not big numbers
from my experience i can say that this bands are really happy you lend them a bootleg,that -after cleaning and so on-they will put out as a live

But ANY band who is not a s---t-sorry snow- is happy you have live bootleg from them

Looking for Gratefull Dead live Olympia Paris May 3-1972
I did a tape with a friend of both days,3 and 4
But the first day, being so much Lucy in Sky with Diamonds,we just mess around
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JimH

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2002, 12:06:58 pm »

Phat Phreddy,
To read more, start at the http://www.riaa.com and check their links.  U.S. Copyright office also has info.  It is a rat's nest.

There are several categories of rights:

1.  The songwriter's (or publisher's) rights.  The person who owns the song gets paid when it gets reproduced.  They often assign these rights to the Harry Fox Agency or to a publisher.  Many record labels also have publishing entities.

2.  The recording.  If I record "White Christmas", I own the recording.  I still have to pay the publisher who owns the rights to the original composition.  I can assign my recording rights to a record label.

Then you need to separate whether the "event" triggers the mechanical rights (copying the music to a tape, a CD, a file, etc.) or the performance right (just playing the file, as with radio or streaming audio).  Interestingly radio is considered exempt from royalty payments, but Internet radio is not.

For live performances, there is still a royalty due to the songwriter/publisher, and this is often negotiated by their representative, like ASCAP or BMI.  I wouldn't have to pay very much for performing "White Christmas" but Bruce Springsteen might.

So trading concerts is, as Zevele says, dependent on what the band thinks (whether they are willing to assign you the rights), but also what the song writer thinks (they may not agree with the band).

I've probably butchered the above in some way which someone can correct, but you can see it isn't simple.  If you add to this the fact that a lot of old contracts never envisioned the Internet and digital distribution, you have a mess.  In addition, the record labels clearly would like to slow things down, extend their CD sales, and try to maintain their control of the flow of money associated with music.

There is still another complication, and that is that the five major record labels (Universal, Sony, EMI, Warner, and BMG) are barred (at least in theory) from getting together to set up a new system, since that could well be considered a violation of anti-trust laws.

There are also a lot of politics involved.  For example, AOL (who owns Warner) and Microsoft (who may eventually own them all) consider themselves arch-rivals, so if you choose to play in one camp, you make yourself enemy of the other.  The labels are also afraid of the power of Microsoft to muscle in on their business.  They don't want to give them a start.

I think that either Congress or the U.S. Copyright office will have to sort this all out before anything very good happens.
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Jim Hillegass
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zevele1

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2002, 12:44:38 pm »

The concerts trade is not new.I had concerts on real to real,mind you
But it was allways the fact of not a great number of people
It is still the case with internet
To deal with nhr[?] format and FTP is not like to plug Kazza or Napster
As i said in another post mp3pro IS the format this day for live and full albums bootlegs

Look like sites like Emusic are not close future
In the main time p2p will rule
they may close some.But even Gnutella p2p softwares start to be as good than non Gnutella.  And if they want to close Gnutella p2p,i would like to see it.
Anyway,they created they problem,and if Microsoft rules all of it one day,it will be good news for a light Linux at very cheap price to be run on double boot.
And they will have to start again..............

There is also another kind of trade-I am not part of it ,but i have many friends who are

Trade of copies of or cds or rip lps vinyl.With the same rules than concerts trade

Of cause it is not about U2 ,Madona and junk like it

Jazz,psychedelic,free jazz,beat
It is a serious trade.You tell which brand of blank cds you want,which color.Full art sleeve,art on the cd.If from lp,color copie of the sleeve,insert and so on.And,RULE NUMBER ONE cd at x1
This trade is only about out of print very hard to find music.You do not trade to save money
A rip lp with color copies of the sleeve,insert cost around $10
I have a lot of people who beg me.But to spend my days burning cds or ripping lps...thank you
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ChicoSelfs

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2002, 02:53:34 pm »

No the site is www.mp3-2002.com and appears to be absolute free the downloads but is illegal but i saw some sites that we pay some $ to download musics but they are Leggal, and if someone pays for the MP3 and share with others is still Illegal or now is Leggal?
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zevele1

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2002, 03:03:02 pm »

Concerning the fact that users are not 100% right downloading music,i do not stand on this side
If ,from the start the label had have a project,your kid would have ask you to buy him $10 downloads-on a net or like a phone card.From the start it would have be the normal way to get music from the net. Sure he would have 'trade' with other friends around him,as you did with cassettes many years ago.But nothing like it ,so they used Napster
THEY teach people to get free music,not the other way.And now it is hard job to reverse from it
And i am sure than a fair deal for downloaded music is not for near future.And they may realise one day that there is more than USA on earth,they still behave like 100 years ago

To get 'downloaders' arrested look like a funny movie.I do not know in USA,but in France one day at the same hour ,thousands and thousand people will run any p2p and call the police telling that they broke the law and want to be arrested,giving they name and adress
Same the next few days....
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ChicoSelfs

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2002, 03:07:29 pm »

haaa it's true? I live near França ( 300Km ) but never ear that, there in my country never ocourred nothing
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zevele1

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2002, 03:46:32 pm »

No
I was saying IF they want to arrest people.But was nothing like that in France
The site you saw with the full albums is a spanish one?If yes ,it is legal and cost $25 a month
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JimH

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2002, 04:04:47 pm »

Zevele,
How much do you want for the movie rights?
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Jim Hillegass
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zevele1

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2002, 04:35:05 pm »

The KingSparta's cat food!

We had a thing like it many years ago in France

To have ID card or passport with you went out of your home was obligatory

Was a strong protest mouvement.People going out without and,when seing a policeman,telling him 'i do not have my Id card,you must arrest me',they arrested you.I had many funny hours in police stations at this time.In fact the law was to keep you 48 hours,but was so much arrested that they just stopped the all thing
Because it was a never ending story.Someone has to come with your IDcard.But many time,the person coming did not take his IDcard and said to the policeman'i do not have......

At this level,french people can have some genie
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ChicoSelfs

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RE:IT'S LEGGAL SHARE WMA???
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2002, 06:03:48 pm »

The site that i have seen is i think american and it's absolute free ( but illegal ? )
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