Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[PhatPhreddy]

OK multiple 'client' machines with one database and file storage dump... Whats the smartest way to do this ??

Currently I have been using one machine to rip and run MJ... Now its reg time and I want ot get it right...

I have a truly massive RAID array that should be operational within the week and I want to be able to rip from multiple networked machines with them all using the same network drive for storage of the files and sharing the database (so not importing and maintaining multiple DBASES)..

So can multiple client versions of MJ8 run while all sharing the database and storage location ??

[JimH]

No, on sharing the database.  Bad things could happen.

Yes, on ripping to a networked drive.

Might be best to rip on one machine.

Media Server is best for playback.

[PhatPhreddy]

Hmm... OK the ripping angle is good but updating the DB is bad !!!

Will read up on Media Server tonight but I will need to be ripping on a different devices than playback... So syncronizing my DB then becomes an issue (perhaps)... I am hopeful that I can run MJ and media server on my file dump server but my server is monitor and keyboardless so that makes ripping on it a non starter...

To be honest I was hopeful that there would be some way to share your DB and file but possibly I will be able to sort this with M Server....  

If using Media server will it allow me to rip and use M Server to update the DB (eg still one application handling the DB) or is M server only able to serve up files one way ?? This would be perfect if this kind of config works...

Basically I dont care what hoops are jumped through but will have at least 2 or 3 playback PC's (hopefully each to rip but would live with just one) on the network with one RAID array (with no other interaction other than VNC to control it in an emergency / debug situation) holding all my files. This RAID box has no CD/DVD Drive to rip with...

That my situation and I am sure I can make this work but if anyone else has had networking success or pointers I should experiment with I am all ears...

[JimH]

> ... I will need to be ripping on a different devices than playback... So syncronizing my DB then becomes an issue (perhaps)... I am hopeful that I can run MJ and media server on my file dump server but my server is monitor and keyboardless so that makes ripping on it a non starter...

> If using Media server will it allow me to rip and use M Server to update the DB (eg still one application handling the DB) or is M server only able to serve up files one way ??

It works for playback only.  You can't use it to update a database.  That only happens in MJ.  

If you rip on a client and use a network drive on the server as the destination, you will need to open MJ on the server after you've finished and import the files.  Then restart Media Server to share the new files.

> Basically I dont care what hoops are jumped through but will have at least 2 or 3 playback PC's (hopefully each to rip but would live with just one) on the network with one RAID array (with no other interaction other than VNC to control it in an emergency / debug situation) holding all my files. This RAID box has no CD/DVD Drive to rip with...

It would be easier if the ripping were done on the server.  How about adding a CD drive and wireless keyboard/mouse?

[PhatPhreddy]

Hmm may have to think about it but I just built it in a nice 2U black 19 inch rack mount and its not in the most accessable place to have a screen with it... It is in the cupboard were my utilities (and cable modem) come into the apartment downstairs !!!

I tried to put the drives in my HTPC and then all this would be a piece of cake) but first I was afraid of the heat and power of 5 HD's in a desktop chassis and then when I actually tried the build I did not have room for the HD's anyway...

I had a P166 |PLS| Motherboard |PLS| 64MB RAM |PLS| 3GB HD that was heading for the trash so I added a NIC and installed Win 98 SE, ran  98Lite on it to remove all surplus junk from the OS... I have Girder and Tight VNC on it with Girder performing a daily reboot command at 6AM to keep the OS fresh (I find this helps any non NT kernal OS) really its just a networked HD and enough OS to make it run and VNC in in case of maintainance...  

So far I have been only using MJ8 on one dev machine to see how stability / tools were but now think its time to register and get it rolled out to the whole house nets...

Possibly the only work around would be to network a CD drive and VNC into the raid box and operate the server version of MJ8 via VNC... This would keep the DB fresh on only the server and allow me to then use Media Server 'out' from this machine... Theory is fine but I always think that when I get these sort of ideas !!

[JimH]

Phred,
You're about to know a lot more about this than we do.

Best of luck.

Jim

[PhatPhreddy]

Damn statements like that A) make me nervous and B) kinda mean asking support questions is not likely to get me anywhere !!!

If it was easy I guess I wouldn't be happy either...

Its all still at the early stages as the RAID is a new additon to my setup but the main reason I am building it is for CD Audio so I will need to work out a solution...

[claudio]

Hey Phreddy

I think that the cleanest is VNC and networked CD on the server and then use MediaServer (up to 3 clients are allowed)

The other options (that is very easy to mess up) is to have a single library on the networked drive and keep all the MJ in "Party mode" except for the one where you are ripping or adding playlist etc that particular day .  I personally use the media server option, but somebody reported that this other solution also works

Claudio

[PhatPhreddy]

More problems...

OK this could be a show stopper for my plans !!! Got home... Tried to put MJ on the admitedly wimpy but almost single purpose P166 and BAM MJ did not detect an MMX processor and wont install !!!

This is a kicker.. I know a P166 is weak but I am optimizing it with 98 lite and it is basically just a file store... In fact I only built it as my last plan failed and picked up the pieces and put it in this... As a networked HD it seems fine but I am running uphill tyting to perfect this home net...

Having just upgraded my HTPC to a 2.2 P IV and my dev box to a similar monster spec I really didn't want to blow out on another Proc / MB / Mem combo but in for a penny in for a pound... I am too far down the road now with this plan to back out (I am attempting all of this as I will have 2 homes to live in soon and this way I can just carry the rackmount in my carry on and have my CD collection in both homes !!! There is method to my madness) I may have a PIII 733 / 256 setup spareish soon but would like to get this going sooner rather than later as my ripping time will get short (I have about 4 weeks now)...

[Mysticeti]

I'm not sure you would have been happy with the performance of the P166 anyway.  I had a P200MMX as my MJ machine for a while and although it worked fine it was a bit sluggish (note: I was running V7 at the time).

Rip on as many systems as you have on your network (then import on your MJ machine) and you'll probably be done faster than you think.  Test each system's settings of course (Digital Large Buffer may not work on older drives).

[Phat Phreddy]

The P166 is only supposed to be a file server...

As the RAID is a HW PCI device and it was  only to serve the files accross the network I figured it would be bearable...

Thats what you get for figureing !!

[PeterE]

I have a setup similar to that described - a few comments...

1. Turn off the drive write cache, as ripping when turned on seemed to have some wierd effects and MJ8 often crashed the array when running disk write intensive tasks such as editing large tags (internal images / notes)
2. I'm with JimH on the comment re: ripping from one machine. I have experimented with various qualities over a 100Mg network and for higher quality (full strenght ape or 256|PLS| MP3) the speed (and sometimes quality) is myuch better ripping on the machine which holds the RAID array
3. Before I discovered MediaServer I did share the stored files (read only drive share with the same drive name as the physical disk and the copy the MJ8 datafiles to the local installation). It did work fine. Besides MediaServer sorted all those nasty little problems and works a treat.

Hope this helps

[PhatPhreddy]

Looks like I need another CDR / case (darn I thought that 2U rack was such a nice idea) and new MB / Proc / mem combo for this...

I hope that Tight VNC is robust enough for this regularly as a another monitor is out... I already have a main PC a HTPC 2 tablet computers in my living room / home net... I can handle another hidden box but if my GF see's me putting another full machine somewhere its curtians (if the posts stop coming call the police !!)

[Cotton-Eyed Loo]

TightVNC works really well for this. I am in the process of moving my MJ8 server into the garage at which point I will only have VNC access to it. Even over 802.11b it's usable - make sure you choose TightVNC encoding, the last version I installed did not default to the tightvnc encoding [odd eh?]. Also you will want to configure the server to run in "full poll mode" - or you may end up with odd artifacts (non updating fields etc) - typical of VNC interaction. When I need to rip a new CD I pop it into MJ8 server and rip it from a nearby computer when I remember to / have the urge. I buy about 2 CDs a month at this point (and I always buy the music I want to have on demand access to).

I am very interseted in another way to control MJ remotely - especially so that I can store the MJ8 server and storage and audio card, somewhere else (garage). I don't want another device in my media room - my Tivo is loud and annoying enough, no need to add another "quiet" PC. Frankly once I've got a DVI in display - the DVD player is sold and the Tivo is a museum piece. I'll have nothing but a display, pre-amp, amp, speakers, sub and a wireless keyboard (surf, shop, shop, surf, order dinner...) in my theatre room.

[Callithumpian]

I don't have anything like the techno-savvy that you guys have exhibited above, but I can't help but feel that you're over cooking it.  Here is a way simpler solution.

We have a home network of 3 machines called Moe, Larry and Kurly.  Each machine stores about 1/3 of our media files.

Moe's HD is M:\drive on the the other two.  M:\ drive on Moe is also Moe's Hardrive (using "subst M: C:\")  Hence  M:\drive is Moe's HD on all three machines.
Larry's HD is L:\drive on the the other two.  L:\ drive on Larry is also Larry's Hardrive (using "subst L: C:\")  Hence  L:\drive is Larry's HD on all three machines.
Kurly's HD is K:\drive on the the other two.  K:\ drive on Kurly is also Kurly's Hardrive (using "subst K: C:\")  Hence  K:\drive is Kurly's HD on all three machines.

All machines use the same database BUT ...
Moe is the master and the only machine on which the database can be edited.
This is because MJ on Larry and Curly operates in "Party Mode".  (in MJ under "View")

Now, step up to any machine and play any file from the absolute current database.
Or step up to all three machines and simultaneously play three different files.
All without having to "start server" or "connect" - just launch MJ and play.

[PhatPhreddy]

I may well investigate 'party mode' but this plan does have a limitation...

As I mentioned above I am hopeful the RAID array will not have any keyboard / mouse / monitor attached...

I am being advised to RIP and run Media server on the RAID array... Personally I wanted the RIAD array to just be a network drive but I think VNC should handle this problem but it means I have to upgrade the RAID box...

The 3 stooges approach has less of an appeal in spreading my media files around 3 hard disks (or logical hard disks anyway)... This appraoch also necessitates the addition os more HW to my RAID to make it a ripper / MJ Server rather than purely a big HD...

[Callithumpian]

>>The 3 stooges approach has less of an appeal in spreading my media files around 3 hard disks (or logical hard disks anyway)... This appraoch also necessitates the addition os more HW to my RAID to make it a ripper / MJ Server rather than purely a big HD...

None of the above is true.
Put all your files in one place.
But arrange it so that that place has the same drive letter on every point of access.
Choose one machine as a master - the only machine on which the database can be modified.
Rip on the master machine, store on the big HD machine - which then need only be a network drive (M for music)
Use the same database on every point of access and protect it, through party mode, on every machine except the master.

[PhatPhreddy]

Sorry perhaps I am just being dense (low coffee warning)...

But from the example above I would assume with SUBST'ing 3 HD's you will have M L and K as the 3 repositories for the audio files ?

I am held up on some parts now anyway and they wont get here until after the weekend... I am thinking (now !!) that a cheap kit to upgrade this raid box and put MJ on in server mode is not only a better idea for this project but gives the raid box some power in case of other needs... (However my hand to computer ratio is completely out of control ) !!!

[Callithumpian]

Yes, but there's flexibility here.
The example was just to indicate that the same concept can be used by poor schmucks like me who have itsy bitsy little HDs on various machines.
Don't follow the example slavishly - use the principle.

If you wish to put all your files in one place then do so.

>>But arrange it so that that one place has the same drive letter on every point of access.<<
IE = map that the location of your media directory identically on every machine that accesses the DB.
So that on every machine in the LAN M:\ equals the location of the media files.

>>Choose one machine as a master - the only machine on which the database can be modified.
Rip on the master machine, store on the big HD machine - which then need only be a network drive (M for music)
Use the same database on every point of access and protect it, through party mode, on every machine except the master.<<

[PhatPhreddy]

OK I have got you now...

I was using one drive letter on all machines with a shared network drive...

What was screwing me up was the advice to A) not share the DBase files and B) not rip accross the network...

Now by using party mode a may be able to solve A and I think I may gamble on B to see what happens..

[AlonsoN]

It's like this, Phat:

On the host:

files in and under: x:\storage\media
then SUBST x\storage m:
then share m: as "media", read only if you want to.

On the clients:
map \host\media as m:

It's important that \media not be off the root on \host, because then it will not look the same for hosts and clients.

[Callithumpian]

Hey you can rip across the network!
Well, what I should say I spose is, I can rip across the network.

Once, when house guests (don't you love 'em) were using certain machines, I ripped a CD in Kurly's drive (the Office) from Larry (in the workshop where I had retreated) and sent the files to Moe (in the study).

Admittedly, on that occasion I had to later import the files into the DB - since Moe is the Master. (gnuk, gnuk gnuk)

[Lizzy]

I have the database on a machine that I am *NOT* running mj on (no reason to - it doesn't have speakers).  My daughter and I both write to the database from our seperate machines.  We never play music at the same time (our computers are next to each other).  My daughter has better speakers - I like to manage the music from my machine.

We are having indifferent success with this setup.  We know it won't work when my husband (whose office is in a different room) switches from MusicMatch to MJ.

I would happily control everything from my machine and let them go on party mode - but my daughter likes to be able to rate music and put it into playlists also.

My major problem with MJ is that it is written in C  and COM.  I would happily write a web app for it - but I haven't written in anything but java, xml and xsl for so long that I think I would go nuts trying to manage a com app.  I really want something better than the current web app to manage with.

Lizzy

[Liz Again]

Don't put everything on the same drive letter.  I have been doing this successfully with both mj and musicmatch for over 3 years.  

Go into your windows networks and use the \machine\disk\directory form.  Works like a charm.

Liz

[Endymion]

I routinely rip from multiple machines to one fileserver.  I used to do
it via mapped network drives but now find it simpler to just use the network
path to the file server.   Each machine has it's own database which I update
using the import media option.  If I need to transfer a playlist from one machine
to another I just export the playlist.  Since all machines are using the same
path it works fine.  No problems or database issues.  Not sure I see a real need for having all machines point to the same database.

John