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[wer]

I was hoping someone with more experience might be able to educate the new guy a bit, and explain the rules of volume adjustment in MC16 when playing videos... I can't seem to figure it out.

Some videos I can adjust the MC volume and it works perfectly... Others, it lets me adjust the volume, and the slider goes up and down, but the audible volume is not affected (mute has no effect either), and some videos when I try to adjust volume in Theater mode it says "volume n/a"

It seems avi and some mpg I can adjust, some mpg and vob I can't, and generally ifos it won't let me.

I can see not being able to adjust volume of Dolby Digital or DTS videos, but some regular 2 channel mpegs I can, and some regular 2 channel I can't.  It's confusing.  (I can of course tell what format MC is outputting in the SPDIF because the receiver tells me the incoming format.)

I have the volume control set to "Internal."  Using Red October Standard.  Output mode is Direct Sound.  Physical is Optical output on a Realtek HD Audio, if that matters.

Can someone clue me on in how this works?

Thank you very much!

[rick.ca]

You've configured Video for "Bitstreaming: Yes (S/PDIF)" audio (Options > Video > General Video Settings). As a result, Dolby Digital and DTS are sent as raw data for your receiver to decode. Although the "Bitstreaming: None" setting is "recommended," bitstreaming is the only way to transmit these multi-channel formats via S/PDIF. An alternative—although I'm not sure it works with RO—is to use AC3Filter. It will encode the audio output from MC to AC3 and send it over S/PDIF to the receiver which will decode it for multi-channel output.

[Matt]

Bitstreaming disables all audio processing, including volume.  There's a little more on bitstreaming here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Connection_Type

An alternative—although I'm not sure it works with RO—is to use AC3Filter. It will encode the audio output from MC to AC3 and send it over S/PDIF to the receiver which will decode it for multi-channel output.

An even easier way is to pick surround sound AC3 output in DSP Studio > Output Format. 

This has the advantage of allowing all audio processing, but the disadvantage of a slight quality loss from encoding to AC3.

[rick.ca]

An even easier way is to pick surround sound AC3 output in DSP Studio > Output Format. This has the advantage of allowing all audio processing...

Thanks. I have been using "Output surround sound as Dolby Digital...," but wasn't sure if this include all DSP processing. The few occasions I looked at this, I wasn't sure how to make the adjustments I was used to making in AC3Filter, so I didn't bother trying. Those adjustments were typically for making dialog easier to hear by adjusting the mix to favour voice and/or using DRC. I suppose the same adjustments are possible in MC, but they don't seem to be available a similar user-friendly form. It would be helpful if there were a plugin specifically for this purpose (perhaps similar in function to the AC3Filter Mixer). Really helpful would be the ability to make such adjustments via the OSD. They're typically required only for some videos and/or some listening conditions, so a permanent adjustment is not a good solution.

...but the disadvantage of a slight quality loss from encoding to AC3.

It's only a disadvantage if there's an alternative. For S/PDIF, there isn't, and the same loss would result from using AC3Filter. Besides, quality doesn't matter if I can't hear the dialog.

So how would I go about making such adjustments using the existing DSP plugins? Even if there's no convenient way to make the adjustments while viewing a video, maybe I could configure an alternative zone to use when video dialog is otherwise difficult to hear.

[wer]

Thanks Rick and Matt for your replies.

Actually, I had already been using both of what you suggested.  Perhaps it is this combination that causes limitation...

I have bitstreaming turned on in options->video, and in DSPstudio->OutputFormat I have the following turned on:
  Channels: 4 Channels
  Output Surround Sound as Dolby Digital (checked)
  Mixing: Clone side channels to rear speakers

Why this curious combination?  Because I want the following:
  1. "Quadraphonic" sound for normal audio from MC16
  2. I want normal DolbyDigital/DTS from my ripped DVDs from MC16

I'm running 64bin Win7, and using the optical out on the realtek audio.  I could never really get AC3 filter to do what I wanted in terms of the above.  Perhaps it was a 64 bit problem, perhaps it was too difficult to properly configure AC3filter for this config. I could get MC16 to do it just fine, albeit with this volume issue. 

Is there a better way?

[rick.ca]

Is there a better way?

I may still not understand this correctly, but with bitstreaming on, I doubt there's any expanding of channels or mixing going on. Your receiver may be duplicating a stereo stream to rear speakers, giving you the result you expect anyway. As Matt says, if you want the volume adjustment for AC3 and don't mind a small loss of quality, disable bitstreaming. My only problem with this is I can live without the volume adjustment, and the kind of adjustments I'd like to make I'm not sure how to do with MC...

So how would I go about making such adjustments using the existing DSP plugins? Even if there's no convenient way to make the adjustments while viewing a video, maybe I could configure an alternative zone to use when video dialog is otherwise difficult to hear.

Or does anyone know of a VST plugin that makes the same sort of adjustments as the AC3Filter Mixer? SpatReap66 provides an interesting way to play with surround sound, but it doesn't do the compression and voice adjustments I'm primarily interested in.

I still think it would be very cool if separate gains for voice, surround and LFE could be done via the OSD.

[wer]

The mixing specified in output format only occurs on the 2-channel music, and is not used for videos at all.  I think this is because in Options->Video->Advanced->AudioPlaybackDevice I have actually selected the optical output on the Realtek card.  It seems that because of this, the mixer in Output Format is bypassed for videos.

This option has another selection "Same as device used in audio playback".  If I select that, the Output Format mixer is used, and 2-channel videos are mixed as "quadraphonic."

The bitstreaming option in General Video Settings seems to control if DolbyDigital/DTS are passed to the receiver at all.  If I turn this off, all sound from videos is sent to the receiver as 2-channel PCM. 

Regardless of the setting of AudioPlaybackDevice, turning off bitstreaming enables volume control and disables DD/DTS.  Turning bitstreaming on enables DD/DTS but disables volume control.  There doesn't seem to be any way of maintaining DD/DTS if I disable Bitstreaming.

If I do as Matt suggests and turn off bitstreaming and turn on an AC3 format in Output Format, the receiver does get a DD signal, but it is not the original 5.1 soundtrack; it sounds like the 2-channel soundtrack was upmixed by MC, because all the sound from the rear speakers is basically missing.

It's too bad MC can't handle DD/DTS decoding so that volume and room correction could work on DVDs... But that's probably asking for something fantastically difficult as if it were simple.

[Daydream]

Regardless of the setting of AudioPlaybackDevice, turning off bitstreaming enables volume control and disables DD/DTS.  Turning bitstreaming on enables DD/DTS but disables volume control.  There doesn't seem to be any way of maintaining DD/DTS if I disable Bitstreaming.

Around here you kind of lost me. It's either bitstreaming and no control, or decoding and control. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you wanted to make a different point it's not very clear, at least not to me.

[rick.ca]

If I do as Matt suggests and turn off bitstreaming and turn on an AC3 format in Output Format, the receiver does get a DD signal, but it is not the original 5.1 soundtrack; it sounds like the 2-channel soundtrack was upmixed by MC, because all the sound from the rear speakers is basically missing.

I don't know why Matt would suggest this option unless whatever is mixed by the audio engine is encoded as AC3. If that's 5.1, and the receiver is able to decode AC3 (I assume most are), then you should be getting 5.1. I haven't tested it enough to be positive it's working, but it does sound similar to bitstreaming. I suppose it doesn't prove much, but I've got a VST meter that shows it's outputting 5.1.

It's too bad MC can't handle DD/DTS decoding so that volume and room correction could work on DVDs... But that's probably asking for something fantastically difficult as if it were simple.

Bear in mind the limitation of your S/PDIF connection. Other than stereo, it's only able to carry an original DD/DTS stream or something encoded to AC3—both of which your receiver should be able to decode. Bitstreaming, by definition, will preclude any kind of adjustment. If the final output from the audio engine is being encoded to AC3, that should include whatever adjustments were made to it (i.e., volume, room correction, and any other effects).