Topic: Theater View television series (Read 14806 times)

Matt · « **on:** October 10, 2011, 05:00:50 pm »

I spent a little time today thinking about how to do a more graphical series view for television shows.

We have always shown a text list for series, because switching to thumbnails shows something like this:

A couple changes today help make the view look like this:

1) The ability to do Cover Art > Get From Internet on television programs and browse and select artwork from TheTVDB

2) A change of aspect ratio for movie and television thumbnails views to better accommodate poster artwork

3) As you arrow around, the backdrops load immediately for the selected program instead of waiting for you to enter a series

leezer3 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2011, 06:01:40 pm »

Better, but we now need series info, so therefore an info panel tailored to suit

I agree with the basic sentiments from MrHaugen's thread below on how to implement this.

Another little idea mind (You've got most of this already, so I'd hope fairly trivial to implement)-
How about allowing the images from the TVDB to be placed as a skin component in the XML file?
This then lets you drop to a single row of portrait thumbnails of series covers, and place the current backdrops as much bigger splash images.
Overlay info on that, and you're getting to where I'd like theatre view to be personally.

Edit:
Midly unclear at the moment, and I'm not really in a position to try- Can I now allocate one coverart image to a TV series, as well as the thumbnails?

-Leezer-

raym · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2011, 08:55:16 pm »

Hmmm... my tv series view looks the same as it always has (like image 1) yet my movies view looks like image 2 except I only get 1 row of HUGE thumbs per screen ?

Matt · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2011, 09:37:26 pm »

Quote from: raym on October 10, 2011, 08:55:16 pm

Hmmm... my tv series view looks the same as it always has (like image 1)

Try using Cover Art > Get From Internet on your television.

raym · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2011, 12:23:33 am »

Quote from: Matt on October 10, 2011, 09:37:26 pm

Try using Cover Art > Get From Internet on your television.

Umm, I don't particularly want to do this but I made a backup of my library and tried it. No change.

My default video view is a simple Genre>Filename setup.

See screenshot.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2011, 06:02:35 am »

Quote from: Matt on October 10, 2011, 05:00:50 pm

1) The ability to do Cover Art > Get From Internet on television programs and browse and select artwork from TheTVDB

2) A change of aspect ratio for movie and television thumbnails views to better accommodate poster artwork

3) As you arrow around, the backdrops load immediately for the selected program instead of waiting for you to enter a series

Good! It's going the right direction. To get the covers from Internet manually is good, even though this eventually have to be automatic in some way.

One question here... This means that folder.jpg is changed to "Cover" style instead of screen grabs? Just remember that each episode often have screen grabs to illustrate a specific moment in that episode. I hope that episode thumbnails can still be used at the bottom layers. I'm using Sickbeard my self, which is downloading all meta data and images needed. The episode screen grabs is stored in "season\Thumbnails", and the link is set in the XML file for each episode. So, I'm covered. I should be able to use this with the episode thumbnails.

Another thing. The size of the Cover art seems to be rather huge. What settings is this? 1080 and 80% size? I'm testing this on a 1080P monitor with 80% size in TV, and it looks like I'm able to get 3 rows of covers, which is ok I guess. On the example image however, it's only 2 rows.

glynor · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2011, 10:55:02 am »

I really don't understand why MC uses Thumbnails Style views as the default for any of the [Media Sub Type]=Video views:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=66905.msg448863#msg448863

Lineup Style is so much better and more functional.

Matt · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2011, 12:52:16 pm »

@Episode images
I'm going to switch to doing Series images like we do Artist images. This will allow users to continue to have episode images.

@Thumbnail lists
Sorry, but we like them. A list of movies in text or lineup mode would not be pretty. I haven't seen confusion navigating thumbnail lists, but if you have ideas to improve them from things you've seen, please let us know.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2011, 02:24:09 pm »

Quote from: Matt on October 11, 2011, 12:52:16 pm

@Episode images
I'm going to switch to doing Series images like we do Artist images. This will allow users to continue to have episode images.

That sounds like a great idea. That feature should probably be used for many image types in time.
One stupid question though. How do you use it exactly?

I tried the Cover art - Get Artist image from Last.fm. But nothing happened. Where is the image stored? And can it be manually added?

Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2011, 02:43:28 pm »

Quote from: MrHaugen on October 11, 2011, 02:24:09 pm

That sounds like a great idea. That feature should probably be used for many image types in time.
One stupid question though. How do you use it exactly? I tried the Cover art - Get Artist image from Last.fm. But nothing happened. Where is the image stored? And can it be manually added?

Wait until next build, since it's changing.

Then, pick some shows and use Cover Art > Get From Internet

Series images will be stored like:
[Cover art folder set in options]\Series\[Series Name].[image extension]

rick.ca · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2011, 03:06:40 pm »

Quote

@Thumbnail lists
Sorry, but we like them. A list of movies in text or lineup mode would not be pretty. I haven't seen confusion navigating thumbnail lists, but if you have ideas to improve them from things you've seen, please let us know.

I agree with glynor. It's not so much that a lineup is more functional, as the thumbnail scheme is not functional. In some cases (notably, images), I'd prefer it—if it worked properly. The navigation problem has been mentioned may times. Repeatedly navigating "next" (an almost universal requirement of something that's supposed to function as a "list") is awkward because it requires a different button press every 4th or 5th item. If your attention needs to be elsewhere—like on the info panel—then it's useless. The simple fix is just to allow {right} to do "next" at the end of a row. It otherwise does nothing.

Obviously those who do like them don't care, but those of us who do find thumbnails less functional simply because they don't convey critical information. And it's not that those preferring the prettiness of thumbnails don't need this information too. They just struggle without it because they love thumbnails so much. A series thumbnail tells me nothing about the episodes it contains. A lineup view restricted to unwatched episodes gives a good indication of what's available for each series. It indicates clearly and visually (if there are episode thumbnails, it's pretty) whether there are none, one, a few or many episodes. Thumbnail fanning helps a little, but is not nearly as effective.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2011, 03:29:36 pm »

Ok. I were thinking more of the Artist images. I'm not able to see any picture files in any folders after selecting Get images from Last.fm.

I know what you are talking about Rick and Glynor. I find it frustrating that there is no consistent next item navigation, and as you have pointed out several times, and I pointed out in my TV thread, this should be easily solved. BUT, there is no reason as to why we can not get Series images for TV Shows is there? You will still be able to use the Lineup style, will you not? Ideally we should be able to switch between several image types, but I think we have to wait a bit for that

Matt · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2011, 04:14:51 pm »

Quote from: rick.ca on October 11, 2011, 03:06:40 pm

The navigation problem has been mentioned may times. Repeatedly navigating "next" (an almost universal requirement of something that's supposed to function as a "list") is awkward because it requires a different button press every 4th or 5th item. If your attention needs to be elsewhere—like on the info panel—then it's useless. The simple fix is just to allow {right} to do "next" at the end of a row. It otherwise does nothing.

I guess I've missed this request.

Next build:
Changed: Pushing right on the right-most thumbnail in a list in Theater View goes to the first thumbnail on the next row.

It's possibly a little confusing that right goes to the next row but left goes to the top, so consider the change experimental.

rick.ca · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2011, 05:53:46 pm »

Quote

Changed: Pushing right on the right-most thumbnail in a list in Theater View goes to the first thumbnail on the next row.

Thanks! In the event of unacceptable confusion, an alternative is mentioned in the last paragraph of this post.

raym · « **Reply #14 on:** October 11, 2011, 06:51:08 pm »

My movie and tv series thumbs look great now. The size and aspect ratio is perfect.

Now, how do I get this same look for other video sub types like music video (or is this coming)?

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** October 11, 2011, 06:55:43 pm »

Maybe.

We were talking today about how video should be divided. This was Matt's proposal.

Movies
Shows
Home Video
Other

Music Videos came up as a possible additon.

raym · « **Reply #16 on:** October 11, 2011, 07:03:39 pm »

Great. I'd recommend adding music video. I have as many music DVD's/BD's as I do movies!

Matt · « **Reply #17 on:** October 11, 2011, 07:19:13 pm »

It's possible to set a media sub type of "Music Videos" today, and to build views around them.

But the question for us is whether the program should try to do this by default. Unless Carnac can reliably know a Music Video from other types of videos, the category may do more harm than good. And I don't know how to make Carnac detect music videos reliably.

rick.ca · « **Reply #18 on:** October 11, 2011, 07:26:42 pm »

Quote

And I don't know how to make Carnac detect music videos reliably.

That's funny. I just removed the solution from it's hermetically-sealed mayonnaise jar and posted it here.

raym · « **Reply #19 on:** October 11, 2011, 07:47:50 pm »

Quote from: Matt on October 11, 2011, 07:19:13 pm

It's possible to set a media sub type of "Music Videos" today, and to build views around them.

And I've done this. Except the thumbs still appear as they always have, without the new sizing/aspect of movies and TV.

raym · « **Reply #20 on:** October 11, 2011, 08:28:43 pm »

Quote from: Matt on October 11, 2011, 04:14:51 pm

Next build:
Changed: Pushing right on the right-most thumbnail in a list in Theater View goes to the first thumbnail on the next row.

It's possibly a little confusing that right goes to the next row but left goes to the top, so consider the change experimental.

This shouldn't happen in lists though. Currently it's happening in list AND thumbnail lists views. I like right arrow doing "Enter" where lists are concerned. Like it's always been.

jmone · « **Reply #21 on:** October 12, 2011, 03:59:09 am »

Looks great! Is there a way of manually adding this from the Clipboard for Series that fail. Eg - "Downtown Abbey" is not found yet I can see it at TVDB so could I manually copy/paste the image?

EDIT: Where is the Coverart being saved? I have my option set as "In the same folder as the file" but they are not in there.
EDIT2: Found them, they are in C:\Users\[USER]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 17\Cover Art\Series

is this correct?

EDIT3: I found that if I manually add "Downtown Abbey.JPG" (saved from TVDB) to the coverart folder above then MC picks it up.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #22 on:** October 12, 2011, 05:44:22 am »

Quote from: jmone on October 12, 2011, 03:59:09 am

EDIT2: Found them, they are in C:\Users\[USER]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 17\Cover Art\Series

Should it not be stored together with the media if you have chosen this? This might be the reason why I could not find my covers in the expected spots either.

Great work by the way. I agree however that we have to think about the right navigation in list styles. It might not be the best to make it browse down if you hit right arrow in this cases, and it might be confusing if the behavior is different in different list types. I'm not really sure what I think about this.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #23 on:** October 12, 2011, 04:12:35 pm »

A few observations.

- The covers does not honor the "Store cover art in...." settings when downloading manually. On my system everything was stored in the User/appdata.... folder.
- Cover art seemed to download automatically and was added as folder.jpg in the Series folder? Is this even possible, or did MC pick up a file that was already there? I might have just forgotten about the folder.jpg that was there in the first place.

If it's not automatic, have you considered doing it automatically? It's very much work to do this for each TV Show. It's a bit slow as well, but that is expected if you download the images full size. This method is very good for correcting bad images etc. But it's hardly something for everyday use..

MrHaugen · « **Reply #24 on:** October 19, 2011, 04:49:19 am »

Any more news on this?

I hope it's just me that had the problems with cover location. It was probably just a user error, as it works well now

The Mastermind · « **Reply #25 on:** October 22, 2011, 06:07:12 am »

Firstly...

I've had a strange experience. I didn't like the poster shape of the thumbnail, so I changed from the downloaded version by creating my own file and placing it in the relevant folder. I had the my chosen thumbnail for a while but then MC replaced it with the one I had downloaded and rejected. This has happened a good three to four times with a half dozen files I rejected.

Secondly...

How do I tell Theater View to use the series thumbnails any time I'm browing a view at the series level. I only get them on the default view based on series title. Otherwise I get a random selection of screen shots featuring episode titles.

struct · « **Reply #26 on:** October 22, 2011, 03:01:43 pm »

As mentioned above, it would be good for MC to do an automatic guess/lookup for all series and then we can look up manually for those images we don't like. I have all of the images already as folder.jpg in a parent folder and it was a pain to have to copy and rename them to MC's place of storage. Sickbeard, XBMC etc all set some type of order/structure which I suspect quite a few people are using. It would be good if mc could look up a directory or two from a file to see if there is a parent directory with the same name as the series and if there is a folder.jpg there, use it if there is nothing in the coverart folder (copy it if you need).

I guess with this structure we aren't going to see anything for seasons? (Not to say I am not very happy that we have series

)

Craig

flac.rules · « **Reply #27 on:** October 22, 2011, 03:13:52 pm »

I like the change, I already have thumbnails for my series stored as folder.jpg, hopefully we can do something seimilar for seasons. However I would also like to see that we can use "backdrop.jpg"-files for the background when navigating the series. It can make having a "clean" visual look easier (not so relevant yet, due to only a few theatre view skins beeing available), and although the internet-images are really nice, I am a bit weary of them in TV-series, as I have had one series i followed being spoiled by a characther in the series showing up in a wheelchair in the autoloaded pictures.

BryanC · « **Reply #28 on:** October 22, 2011, 09:04:19 pm »

Running the "Get Cover Art" on TV Programs is excruciatingly slow. I get about 4 a minute.

What is the "proper" way to use thumbnail captures for the episode, season art by season, and the TVDB artwork by season? How do I set this up?

I'm currently using Sickbeard with sgomes' mod to add video art to MC...

imugli · « **Reply #29 on:** October 23, 2011, 07:43:47 am »

Quote from: JimH on October 11, 2011, 06:55:43 pm

Maybe.

We were talking today about how video should be divided. This was Matt's proposal.

Movies
Shows
Home Video
Other

Music Videos came up as a possible additon.

In line with this, and the call for greater integration of online and local content, what are the chances of seeing Netflix TV Shows genre and Hulu TV shows integrated under Shows, with Netflix and Hulu Movie gneres then being integrated under Movies. Perhaps they could simply be differentiated by a small icon (similar to the watched tick) or a roller item... In this way, those not connected to netflix and / or hulu won't see them but those who are connected to these will. It would also make the need for separate main roller items for these redundant.

rick.ca · « **Reply #30 on:** October 23, 2011, 07:16:02 pm »

Quote from: rick.ca on October 11, 2011, 03:06:40 pm

Obviously those who do like them don't care, but those of us who do find thumbnails less functional simply because they don't convey critical information. And it's not that those preferring the prettiness of thumbnails don't need this information too. They just struggle without it because they love thumbnails so much. A series thumbnail tells me nothing about the episodes it contains. A lineup view restricted to unwatched episodes gives a good indication of what's available for each series. It indicates clearly and visually whether there are none, one, a few or many episodes. Thumbnail fanning helps a little, but is not nearly as effective.

Now that I've switched to MC17, I see this is indeed a significant issue for me. The attached screenshot illustrates the problem. The top image is the now normal result of a lineup list style for (Series) Categories. Although this is neat and tidy, it tells me nothing about what's available for viewing. What I'm used to and prefer for regular use is the multiple thumbnails per series—as shown in the bottom image. This works perfectly because it provides a quick visual overview of the status of all series. If I want more detail, I'll view the file list for the series. But this gives me a clear indication of what details I'll find there.

I realize there may be further changes that will affect this. But I doubt I could ever be happy abandoning the multiple image alternative. At the same time, I would have some use for an alternate view using one thumbnail per series in a thumbnail style. So I would like to be able to set it one way or the other for each view (i.e., as Display "All" as a choice is now).

The bottom image of the screenshot illustrates my current workaround. I've removed [Media Sub Type]=[TV Show] for all episodes, while retaining it for my series dummy records. Leaving it set for the series records seems to allow the backdrops to continue working normally. Since Carnac isn't configurable (and this is an example of why I'm concerned about it not being so), I'll have to manually remove the "TV Show" tag from every episode imported. If and when some means for handling series information is added to the program, I'll no longer require dummy files and this workaround won't be available.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #31 on:** October 24, 2011, 02:54:35 am »

Bah. Exactly one of the concerns that was mentioned when the Series images was introduced.... I've also started to use the Lineup style more and more, and this would become a problem. Looking at one Series image is pointless in this list style. It should be configurable. Either screen grabs or seasons should be shows imo.

struct · « **Reply #32 on:** October 24, 2011, 02:59:49 am »

I also agree with the above two posts. I have also recently found them to be a nice way to browse. I think it would be nice to have the poster for the TVShow either on the left of the episode shots, as rick.ca has in his image, or perhaps preferably, over on the far left before the name of the show, i.e. image followed by name/custom expression.

craig

struct · « **Reply #33 on:** October 24, 2011, 04:58:12 am »

rick, could you please remind me how to get the lineup style. I think I followed some instruction (from you?) for MC16 a while ago, but can't find how to do it again and brain is too .....

thanks
craig

flac.rules · « **Reply #34 on:** October 24, 2011, 05:18:58 am »

Quote from: MrHaugen on October 24, 2011, 02:54:35 am

Bah. Exactly one of the concerns that was mentioned when the Series images was introduced.... I've also started to use the Lineup style more and more, and this would become a problem. Looking at one Series image is pointless in this list style. It should be configurable. Either screen grabs or seasons should be shows imo.

To be honest, i don't see the point of some random screengrabs either? But to each his own i guess, as long as it can be changed, everyone can tweak it as they please. But a a "season"-image would be nice.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #35 on:** October 24, 2011, 05:34:26 am »

I know. Screen grabs ain't perfect either. But it does give you a few clues. I use this list style only with not watched episodes, and it tells me in a quick way, what is left to watch.
I would MUCH rather have a info pane on the right side, with some relevant info as how many episodes is not watched, genre, actors, show rating and so on. Or in addition to this screen grabs, season cover art or what you please.

struct · « **Reply #36 on:** October 24, 2011, 06:55:46 am »

random as the screen grabs may be (but I think that those on thetvdb are sometimes helpful), my 7 year old can pick most episodes of 10 seasons of top gear from the screen grab. Our minds my not be as nimble, but it is surprising how a picture does help.

craig

ps I have annoyed the balance of the universe by using sickbeard to change the screen shots

MrHaugen · « **Reply #37 on:** October 24, 2011, 07:04:04 am »

Yes. Those screen shots do help sometimes. Random screen shots generated from MC would probably not work that well though.

flac.rules · « **Reply #38 on:** October 24, 2011, 08:11:48 am »

I can see how screengrabs can be useful when choosing an episode, but not so much in the screenshot, where you are just choosing the series or eventually season. But i guess it's a bit OT. I can see that other people thing otherwise.

perpetual98 · « **Reply #39 on:** October 24, 2011, 08:25:52 am »

Maybe I missed it, but would integrating banners from thetvdb help clean up some screens? You could probably fit more banners on a page than covers.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #40 on:** October 24, 2011, 08:31:15 am »

I'd love a new list style with Banners. It looks great, and it could have enough caption space for some relation fields beneath. It should not replace the Lineup style though.

)p( · « **Reply #41 on:** October 24, 2011, 09:17:47 am »

+1 for lineup style.
Lineup gives a good indication what to expect while still looking clean.
And because I use it for all media types that I use on the htpc (movies, tv and photo/home video) it helps the ui stay consistent.

rick.ca · « **Reply #42 on:** October 24, 2011, 03:27:19 pm »

Quote from: struct on October 24, 2011, 02:59:49 am

I also agree with the above two posts. I have also recently found them to be a nice way to browse. I think it would be nice to have the poster for the TVShow either on the left of the episode shots, as rick.ca has in his image, or perhaps preferably, over on the far left before the name of the show, i.e. image followed by name/custom expression.

Just to be clear about what appears in my screenshot...The series posters are associated with my dummy series records. Those are tagged so they appear in the proper order in the file list (i.e., as if they were S00E00), but I have no control over where they appear in the lineup. In the screenshot, note the poster for Deadwood is between two episode images. I've never attempted to find a pattern in what order they appear in.

Showing series posters at the far left might go nicely with the option to show the episode images on the right.

Quote

rick, could you please remind me how to get the lineup style. I think I followed some instruction (from you?) for MC16 a while ago, but can't find how to do it again and brain is too .....

After many hours spent rebuilding my Theatre View views, this is probably the only thing left in my brain. It's not an option or setting in the configuration as you might expect. It's set directly in Theatre View only—separately for each view. Select More > Toggle List Style from the menu. Beware of toggling too far—the menu behaves inconsistently after reaching the Showroom style. Also, note there are actually two styles for each view—one for the Categories (one style for however many there are) and a separate one for the file list.

Being able to change the style in Theatre View might sometimes be necessary, but there should also be a setting for it in the configuration. Changing a configuration setting is much faster than cycling through the styles in the view. It would be a small consolation for the more functional lineup style not being the default in the first place.

Quote from: Elvis133 on October 24, 2011, 05:18:58 am

To be honest, i don't see the point of some random screengrabs either? But to each his own i guess, as long as it can be changed, everyone can tweak it as they please. But a a "season"-image would be nice.

Random? Yuck. Episode images are normally be chosen from multiple screenshots. If not by you, then by some other user of the meta data source (like TVDb).

flac.rules · « **Reply #43 on:** October 24, 2011, 05:01:07 pm »

Quote from: rick.ca on October 24, 2011, 03:27:19 pm

Random? Yuck. Episode images are normally be chosen from multiple screenshots. If not by you, then by some other user of the meta data source (like TVDb).

Random, as in when you show a tv-series, as in the screenshot, the pictures are from random episodes.

rick.ca · « **Reply #44 on:** October 24, 2011, 05:41:25 pm »

Quote

Random, as in when you show a tv-series, as in the screenshot, the pictures are from random episodes.

OIC. Yes, it would be nice if they were in order, although it's really just the series poster being in a random position that bothers me. For a more "accurate" presentation of episodes, the file list is just a button-press away. The main thing I'm interested in is whether there are 0, 1, 3 or 13 unwatched episodes available.

bspachman · « **Reply #45 on:** October 24, 2011, 06:48:49 pm »

I'm trying to get the new series images to appear in my Theater Views. It looks like they are showing up as I add them on my main machine, but I can't seem to make them appear on any of the client machines....

Thoughts?
brad

struct · « **Reply #46 on:** October 28, 2011, 03:40:30 am »

At the risk of sounding a bit disappointed ......

Why have we stopped at getting a poster for the series? Why are we not also getting a default background (fanart) image so that we don't have to wait for MC to get one from the internet. When it has fetched one from the internet, it can swap, but why not have something immediately.

Also why not banner art. For the lineup style in rick's screenshots above the left side could be banner art instead.

Why not also select season art?

Even if we don't have a way to use these other images today, I can only assume that you will at some point, and I will have to go through the whole select and download process again, and this quite annoying.

If when we Get CoverArt from the internet the images come from theTVDB, why not have an option to store thetvdb show id, that way you are building in a bit of future proofing. If you create a way to banner art, I do not need to do anything, you have thetvdb id and MC can go and get it for me.

flac.rules · « **Reply #47 on:** October 28, 2011, 05:42:07 am »

+1 To all structs points. The additions comming are great, and a move in the right direction, but theatre view still has a way to go on the "bling-factor", all the suggestions from struct are good.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #48 on:** October 28, 2011, 05:56:10 am »

Agreed. Theater View needs more changes like this one.

rick.ca · « **Reply #49 on:** October 28, 2011, 06:33:27 am »

Quote from: struct on October 28, 2011, 03:40:30 am

At the risk of sounding a bit disappointed...

At the risk of sounding a bit redundant...It's not finished yet.

Quote

Also why not banner art. For the lineup style in rick's screenshots above the left side could be banner art instead.

I don't think so. Banners work fine in a series and maybe an episode details view, or in a summary view that shows only banners, but not as part of a list.

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Author Topic: Theater View television series (Read 14806 times)