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Can you have single tracks appear in multiple Albums?
rick.ca:
--- Quote ---The pseudo file concept is just a way around the limitations that we have with the current implemention of the DB.
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I introduced the term "pseudo file" to suggest a useful feature that would address your original need (not to imply you would want to address it that way), other things like it, as well as a wide variety of other applications. The term was intended to have it's dictionary meaning, not establish any "concept" about how the database works. At the same time, there is an implied assumption this is likely something that is feasible. While I don't have the technical background to understand how, I am aware there are other things recorded in the database that are not files. So it seems reasonable to assume the functionality proposed is not beyond the capability of the developers or somehow contrary to the current architecture of the database.
From a user functionality point-of-view, the "pseudo file" I'm talking about and the entries in a playlist are completely different things. Making the distinction between the two is the whole point. Playlists are lists of files. That's what everyone understands them to be, and there's no reason to change that understanding. Pseudo files are database records just like those for files, that can be tagged and displayed like files, but they don't represent actual files. I've suggested they could take on the same function of playlists (i.e., playing) by optionally including links to actual files in the library. There's no advantage to twisting the meaning of "playlist" to accommodate pseudo files. There's value in the separate meaning of each of the two concepts...
--- Quote ---but to your point at present if these tags are ever written back to the file they will trash the old ones
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...This is just one natural consequence of confusing the two. If you give playlist items the same treatment as pseudo files, then they become pseudo files. That's great if we don't need to distinguish the two, but we do. Otherwise, how do we make a list which is strictly a list? How do we make a playlist of pseudo files? And how do we know if the items we're tagging or deleting are playlist items, pseudo files or real files?
jmone:
Thanks Rick, got you. I come from a DB background and the current limitations are purely a JRiver decision on how they want to handle things. The file (and path) are not the primary key, they are just another value in the DB field that references the file itself. There is absolutely no technical limitation in a DB to have multiple entries with individual values for the tags that all reference the same file. Of course they would need to introduce some logic on which ones updated the tags in the file itself. This concept in MC already exists for cue files, and as we have seem can be forced (but is ugly). We are also seeing the development of a similar approach of breaking a single BD into multiple eps. I'd say it is more of a development priority and how many of us care and want such a feature.
Gl3nn:
--- Quote from: rick.ca on October 28, 2011, 08:50:45 pm ---Crescent's question, usually in a more general form, comes up regularly. Why can't we tag and display playlists in views the same way we can with albums? There are good reasons.
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I was happily in the dark until I discovered that you can, in fact, select 'Playlist Group' when creating a view. Why allow that functionality when the result is a complete reordering of any carefully compiled and sequenced playlists? I still don't get it. I don't want to 'tag' anything. I just want it displayed in the order I had it.
rick.ca:
--- Quote from: jmone on October 30, 2011, 04:16:43 am ---I'd say it is more of a development priority and how many of us care and want such a feature.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you agreeing with me, or claiming that development is taking a different direction? I'm not sure why you're now referring to the case of needing multiple entries for an individual file. This is just one of many cases that would be addressed by the conceptual framework I'm suggesting. I see it as an issue of how to define the link between what I've been calling a "pseudo file" (in this case, "entry" might be a better word) and a real file. Yes, rather than being a simple 1:1 link, it needs to be able to link to parts of a file, with the parts being specified by playback range, chapter, or whatever is required.
The wider application, that which addresses your original question and the more commonplace issues many of us have, is simply allowing the use of records not directly associated with files. In most applications, these would refer to the same thing as a file, if it existed, like an audio track or movie. It might even point to one file that does exist, it's purpose being to represent that file in another album. Applications include replacing lists with pseudo albums (so they can be tagged independently), replacing specific tracks in an album with pseudo files linked to files of better quality, wish lists (for any type of media), records of movies seen but not owned...
rick.ca:
--- Quote from: Crescent on October 30, 2011, 09:22:50 am ---I was happily in the dark until I discovered that you can, in fact, select 'Playlist Group' when creating a view. Why allow that functionality when the result is a complete reordering of any carefully compiled and sequenced playlists? I still don't get it. I don't want to 'tag' anything. I just want it displayed in the order I had it.
--- End quote ---
I imagine the reason for this is simply because in a regular view the files are displayed according to the rules of the view rather than the rules of the playlist. I have no idea how difficult it would be to provide the means to sort the list in the original playlist order. But it's not obvious this is the behaviour desired. The purpose of displaying a playlist in a view may very well be to view the files it contains with all the rules of the view—including order and grouping. That's almost certainly the case if the 'Playlist Group' feature is being used to select multiple playlists to display. Perhaps a more "accurate" way to describe what's happening is the view is displaying the items in the selected playlist—not the playlist itself.
If you really don't want to tag anything, and you're satisfied to work with playlists alone, the better question might be, why can't we configure playlist views that have all the same characteristics of regular views (i.e., with Categories, Panes, Grouping, etc.)? But I doubt there would be much demand for that. I think what most who ask about this want is the ability to display a playlist along with other files in their regular view. That would be possible if one could create a pseudo album from a list. I realize that's not as convenient as directly displaying a playlist in a regular view, but it avoids all the issues inherent in mixing list entries and real files. It would also be done with a feature set that addresses a much wider variety of needs.
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