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[JimH]

I'm probably the most guilty of swerving off topic here, but I want to ask everyone (including Lurkers, who we love as our own), WHEN should we QUIT?

Is it OK, in your opinion, to tackle the difficult subjects, like say, "What Rock Group Do You Groove On?" or should we walk a straighter line here?  Eh? (for you, Lise)

We can go back to being straight arrows if you really insist. (for you, Scronch)

[sekim]

Jim,

Are you suggesting a sterile Interact? Come on, at least it is nowhere near as bad as the winamp boards. What else can we do if there isn't a beta handy to tear into?

[JimH]

I am trying not to suggest anything, but I am asking a serious question.  We're just trying to find out where to go next.  Ideas?

[KingSparta]

well, "Media Jukebox" is about music

does talk about music hurt the program media jukebox, or would it draw music lovers who want something more than the low end music programs like real jukebox and music Match?

if the talk would draw music lovers to buy MJ and maybe lurkers would that hurt?

People are human and rules should bend from time to time.

should we talk about building subs?, airplanes? cars?  maybe not (cars with a computer and MJ on it, yes)

should we talk about mp3 players, cd players, burners, computers, encoders, and MJ I would say yes.

what about the one you love, and the music you wish to share with others, so maybe they can include this in there MJ lib so it will let them think about who they love?

I don't like wearing ties and white shirts, but I do it's part of my job

many people have said that they love the way users interact in this forum like "Friends" that help "Friends" would you not like to stay at a place that makes you fell like a friend? someone you can count on? some place to interact?

[sekim]

Are you thinking of board modifications? Or something else?

[JimH]

It's a question.  Maybe I should have said, "How far off topic is OK with you?"

[Doof]

How about a different forum for the REALLY off topic stuff?

Like in here, we talk about MJ and music related topics. In another forum, pretty much anything goes except for sexually explicit stuff, flames, etc.

I'd hate to see the non-MJ topics go. I'd actually like to see more of the non-MJ stuff. Even if I haven't had a chance to participate in any of it lately.

[KingSparta]

doof

I think that is a good idea...

problems: would be that J river \ JimH might need to maintain two forums.

Plus: would be some of this non-music related talk is moved to an area where support for MJ is not needed.

when a user starts a post ask the user if this is a MJ related support question, If no send user to forum #2

[Charlemagne 8]

Anything music-related is not really off-topic. We are all music lovers and that's why we're here. We are also people with a few different interests. We can talk stereos and various equipment without being too much "out of line" but we can and have talked politics and even touched on religion on occasion ... two subjects that are usually best to avoid in a face to face conversation. The discussion we had with people from all over the Earth after 9-11 was definitely "off-topic" but helped tremendously to know we were not alone. I may never meet any of you or even know your real names but when I am reading and posting to this board, I feel as if I'm among friends. Let's keep it that way. We have a primary interest and that will always be the main focus but that's not all we are.

So my vote is YES! to Off-Topic.

Speaking of face to face conversations, I found out today at the office that Bill Clinton is personally responsible for claw hammer prices. Funny, I never thought he had much interest in carpentry. Before I said something I would regret, I started work early.

[JimH]

Very nicely said, C8, as usual.  Except the part about "feeling" you were among friends here.  You are.  We all are.  Thanks.

As their are no objections to going "off" now and then, I move we adjourn.

[Cotton-Eyed Loo]

When I don't feel liking reading random posts.... I stay away from community BBSs...

Those who don't want to read the random musings and discussions can "change the channel."

Once you eliminate OT discussions and posts - you also eliminate the human side of things, the community itself.

my 2c

[tullio]

Jim

The problem is that Interact already has a split personality.  As MJ's only source of support for its users, it's a place to answer questions, solve problems and discuss technical issues.  It's a narrow-focus forum built around the program.

At the same time Interact is a magnet for music lovers who want to share anecdotes, reactions, emotional responses, critical evaluations and such with kindred spirits.  It's a wide-focus forum built around music, the music business and all the social ramifications thereof.

I think it's a real testimony to the intelligence and good will of the people who freqent this forum that you can intertwine both strands so easily.  But MJ's strengths are in organizational ability.  And organizationally, you'd be better off if you could divide the two  into separate forums, primarily so that frustrated new users coming here for support don't have to deal with the ambiguity.

But there's also a third dimension to this question, and I suspect it's really what prompted your inquiry.  As we age, we tend to become philosohical and broaden our perspectives.  The Bob Dylan wisdom of our youth begins to look pretty shallow and sometimes even silly.  And the question becomes whether this forum is the place to discuss topics like "Pop music is the opiate of the young."

It's tempting to say, "Why not?" But it's awfully hard to keep that kind of interaction from develping into name-calling, school-yard squabbles.  I'd leave it alone.

[JimH]

Tullio,
As always, your comments are loaded with meaning.  

We've thought about splitting it, but I think it's still not big enough -- or maybe, too big.  We will probably do that one day.

The wiggle to the left and waggle to the right thing is probably too much for some, but it keeps me coming back.  Sometimes it's a little too left or a lot too right, but we seem to manage.  It helps that there are now so many "custodians" or "care-givers" or whatever you might call them.  A lot of people have a vested interest in what kind of place this is.

> As we age, we tend to become philosohical and broaden our perspectives.

I'm afraid I'm becoming more stupid with age.  Or so my kids have taught me.  Maybe "broaden our perspectives" could be tranlated as "don't give a darn anymore"?

[claudio]

My vote is to keep the forum as is including the off topic. I'd stay away also to black and white policies on what and what's not allowed.. it would only catch the obvious. In my view this forum is functionally quite nicely with the civilty and intelligence of the people that frequent it, and with the occasional big stick approach.

Claudio

[Jazzwolf]

Jim,
I say leave it as it is. It is pretty civil and when someone gets out of line you have a way of controlling them. If it was just about MJ sooner or later people would drift out and stay out if the program was working correctly for them. There would be no point in coming back to Interact if everything is OK. I like to be able to shoot the bull about anything from Beers to Music. This is really a nice place to be

[Scronch]

As long as people put "Off Topic" in the subject line, it's not a problem.  Even if they don't, as long as the subject line is descriptive, it's no big deal.  Interact is extremely useful as it is.  If you change it, you risk that.

Scronch

[mphorton]

I think that the term "off topic" should be banned from the subject line, but agree that thread "subjects" continue to be annoyingly vague. Is there no room at the top of the homepage for a little bit of red writing encouraging people to use descriptive subjects? [if the subject line is descriptive, it will be obvious whether a thread is off topic]

And I think that anyone who uses phrases such as "opiate of the young" should be required to define vague terms (e.g. "young") and provide samples of unfamiliar items (e.g. opiates) upon the request of fellow interactors. (it's good to see your name again among the interactors, Tulio)

I miss the Paris Essays and other off-topic topics.

Michael

[zevele1]

As someone who is never off topic.....i will try to give my 2 cents

First ,right now where i am?

If ,for the first time,i use Mj since this morning,reading help and the home page i understand that this place is the online-help section of MJ

Can i understand it is not the place for off topics?Do not know.I see 'Interact', a very fashionable word,but opens to all kind of interpretations.And the link "talk back",opens also to many interpretations.

Sure,after not long,i understand it is the place for all kind of helps ,things,feelings,non sens

On the Mj side the problem can be:  do we need to spend on a stronger,better server,do we need to spend time monitoring this place if there is more and more off topics
But there is two ways to have more and more off topics in %
-really people post more and more off topics
-after final  and one or 2 upgrades,Mj is just fine.There is less and less help posts.In this case the  same number of off topics than before,just put them the first kind of posts here

To have 2 places?Not sure.You have to go to 2 places,the help one and the off one.At this time you can see all the posts and give help,and after mess around in off topics
The other problem can be that if the off section is on another place,not sure the off topics will not go out of hand.As today they are in a general frame.They are bound to the general higth quality of this place

To put Off Topics or not in the subject line?As far as i can see,the off topics have allways
explicite subject line.
GREEE....HELP!-I'am lost!Don't work! are the kind of titles you get in the help posts,not the off topics ones

Yes,I,as many others have a feeling of family here.But -no offence- the family is small
Not sure that if 8 sells like fresh bread,we will be able to keep this feeling

A 'no off topic' rule stands ground on a technical point of view.Sure than some as JimH or Zevele will have hard time to stick to it..........

The main question is :how large number of newcomers will react seing this place as it is now
And cost on the JRiver side[money and time]

I do see a problem with Off Topics:
The help posts who slide to a 20 more off topic posts,with no answer to the question

[Roger the Shruber]

My tuppence....

In my day to day analogue existence I am almost entirely removed from the senses of humour, wit, philosophies, musical & computer knowledge and generally high standard of intellect that I am able to either witness or get involved with/in on this board.

The OT's, Q's & A's (the "on" ones) and general community banter form a now indispensible part of my MJ experience.

I take zevele's point as a potential future concern:  
>I do see a problem with Off Topics:
>The help posts who slide to a 20 more off topic posts,with no answer to the question

Keep the OT's! Please?

[Harry|PLS|the|PLS|Hipster]

Somehow, the Forum has developed a unique culture. V. little incivility, enormously helpful on tech issues and insightful (or humorous) on everything else, and largely self-regulating. Don't know how long that can be maintained, but if it aint broke, don't fix it. Uncertainty principle at work if you monkey too much with it.

As Z said, it might be annoying to read some of the wild riffing that I and others engage in if you were in desperate need for a tech fix and everyone else was just goofing on you. But so what? There are a lot of annoying things around, but just deal with it. There's always the back button if you're bored or put off, and if the original question never got answered, its because no-one has the amswer or it got lost on staff's to-do list. So, ignore the chatter and just bump the question, or start a new thread. There's lots else happening right now outside the forum that is really worth getting exercised about

My vote: leave it alone. Its invaluable.

HTH

[Deathrider]

I would have to say this, Interact is for MJ purposes, Anything directly related to the program itself, but for maybe this exception of PC related questions to those out there that are very good at what they do, why, because MJ is an integral part of a good PC, without MJ the PC aint nothing but a word processor. So MJ and the PC work hand in hand and the user spends a fair amount of time on the PC and would sometimes need some help with small issues that are slightly off beat but could in some way be a small part of MJ.

What is off beat and should not be on Interact or require a new forum would be like,,, Hey have you seen the picture of my bird dog, or wow check out my new engine in my car. Stuff like this have no bearing on the issue at hand and take up space on JimH's server and his time. But on the flip side Interact HAS become a small comunity of friends that would by natural process would like to take steps further by interacting in more far flung topics than normal. It would be good in a way for JimH to extend this service to a degree for his users and at the same time for the users to extend respect for JimH for what ever choices he decides to make, it is his forum and he will run it as he sees fit(and in my opinion has done an outstanding job)but if he could start a new forum with maybe the Title of Friends Corner or something I thing it would clear up the interact page a little more and make life a little easier for him, I would also venture to say that he could put Doof, Kingsparta and others he trusts in charge of monitoring that page and controling it if they would volunteer in the event of a new forum.

Just my view on this, Personaly I go with the flow but tend to throw out my ideas every now and then.

Robert

[tullio]

MHorton

Strange that you should ask for definitions.  I've just been studying the new Basic Ashcroft Redefinition Formula (BARF) now being widely acclaimed by lexicographers of all persuasions.  It's a marvel of simplicity.  Under its rules "young" in the sentence "Music is the opiate of the young," would be defined as those to whom music is an opiate.  For further reading see Rumsfeld, et al "The Semantic Basis for the Multiplication of Terrorists" in the current issue of The Disinformation Quarterly.

As for samples, they are available free in Washington Square park (with a small charge for Schlepping and Hondling)

JimH

I call to your attention the famous words of Lloyd the Nashian llama of Lliliput, "One has nothing to learn from children until they become old enough to be grandparents."

It's been nice visiting, but I must leave to seek refuge in the great Mammoth caves of Kentucky until the threat against the Statue of Liberty has passed.

[maleman]

While I do not contribute as much as I would like to, I've come to expect certain types of responses (whether on or off topic) and it is wonderful that this Interact board lends itself to those who have grown close.  I've not seen many posts whose content was intentionally offense or crude, which makes me wonder why this question came to fruition?  One can have a great conversation with a friend, mainly "sticking" to the discussion topic without causing serious offense, which is what I've become accustomed to here and would really be disappointed to see that change.  Besides, two boards would require multiple sessions to toggle between back and forth, which IMHO would not be desired as opposed to "hitting the back button", previously stated by HTH.