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Author Topic: Help me understand the best-use relationship between Media Center/iTunes/iPhone  (Read 27655 times)

Misterboy

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Hi all,

I've spent the last several hours going through the forums, so bear with me.  I'm trying to decide if I should purchase Media Center or not.  I LOVE it, but I'm having trouble understanding the "best use" relationship between Media Center and my iPhone.  I've found a LOOOOT of threads about this, but all of them are old and the information is dispersed through innumerable replies, and often the topics aren't what I'm looking for.  I'm hoping someone can give me a new starting point.

Let me preface this by saying that I have extensive experience with Media Center and am *very* comfortable with it's functions.

1.  As far as I can tell, iPhones are *not* supported in any way from within Media Center (and this is due to Apple, not J River).  Is this true?  Some threads claim that my iPhone should show up in the Drives and Devices, but it isn't there at all... even after rescanning the drives/devices many times, and ensuring my iPhone is unlocked, etc etc.

1a.  I would have thought I'd at least have the supported ability to sync photos to my iPhone through Media Center as I can do that direction through Windows Explorer.

2.  Assuming 1 is true, and iPhones are not supported at all, can someone please break down the best way to use my iPhone with Media Center?

Possible solutions involve:

a. pointing iTunes to my music library and ensuring iTunes doesn't muck with the files and formats
b. Creating a "device" in Media Center and exporting all (or a subset) of my library, and then using that locations as my iTunes "library".
c. Creating a playlist in some way in which iTunes might play nice with Media Center?
d. Some other exotic solution that I haven't through of.

In conclusion:  there must be a lot of people out there who are using Media Center and are stuck in the walled garden of the iPhone.  What do you do?  How do you cope?  What are your tips and tricks?  Is there something obvious I'm overlooking?

And if these questions are answered elsewhere, I apologize for the new thread.  I have looked and looked and looked, but I may have missed something critical.

Many thanks for your help!!
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vicini

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have a look at this thread

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51734.0

iPhone is not supported directly within Media Center. Never has been as far as I know. But this is a great plug-in that syncs Media Center Library to iTunes.
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Scott

Misterboy

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have a look at this thread

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51734.0

iPhone is not supported directly within Media Center. Never has been as far as I know. But this is a great plug-in that syncs Media Center Library to iTunes.

Yeah, thanks, I saw that.  It just seemed like a solution that was overly dependent on software that isn't frequently updated while iTunes is updated monthly... not to mention Media Center.  Also, it appears as though a primary benefit of that software is to sync the number of times tracks are played with Media Center, which I don't really care about.  I'm more interested in finding a solution (even if it's more "day to day" work) that is reliable and isn't dependent on someone updating software to stay current.

With that said, I haven't ruled out using this software.  But before committing I'd like a bigger sample of what "most" users are doing to tackle this problem.

Again, thanks for the link.
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kensn

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I had a similar situation with my Zune. Although not directly supported I was able to set up a "mock" device with a directory for the files. So for me, a new user, it was easy to set the output directory for my "Mock" device to the directory my Zune software looked at for syncing. I found Jr Mc was such an advanced utility for working with my files that this workaround was well worth the effort.

I do not know how much this will apply to your situation but i wanted to give my input....

Ken
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Misterboy

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I had a similsr situation with my Zune. Although not directly supported I was able to set up a "mock" device with a directory for the files. So for me, a new user, it was easy to set the output directory for my "Mock" device to the directory my Zune software looked at for syncing. I found Jr Mc was such an advanced utility for working with my files that this workaround was well worth the effort.

I do not know how much this will apply to your situation but i wanted to give my input....

Ken

Thanks Ken,

I think the equivalent would be that I'd point iTunes to the output directory for the "Device".  This is actually what I did in the past.  The problem is that I then have 2 copies of each song that I want my iPhone to have access to.  It's not a huge problem, but it's not that elegant either.  It's actually option "b" I mentioned in my OP.  I would basically create a playlist of the "library" I wanted, then linked that playlist to the "device" which is actually just a folder.  Then I'd tell iTunes that my "library" was that folder.  The benefit is that I didn't have to worry about iTunes "f'ing up" my main library (which constitutes years of hard work organizing, etc).

I'm holding out hope that someone can give me a more elegant solution.  I've seen hints of ideas in threads but they apply to earlier versions of Media Center, or are referring to features I can't seem to locate.  I'd LOVE if the people at J River could incorporate some sort of built in system like the third party software Vicini mentioned above.  But I can't blame them for being iTunes agnostic :)
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vicini

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It just seemed like a solution that was overly dependent on software that isn't frequently updated while iTunes is updated monthly

No updates to this software because it works. Even with the current version of iTunes. All my music is MP3 which eliminates the need of 2 copies of every song. My music library is about 70,000+ mp3's.

I can say there will probably never be iPhone support with Media Center. I don't foresee it in it's future. But i do understand the frustration as i am a iPhone user. But this plug-in is top notch. What I have in my MC Library, it will show up in my iTunes library as well. I don't do photo's or video's on my iPhone. just music. If you're music is mp3, i would at least give it a try.
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Scott

Misterboy

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That's a ringing endorsement.  Thank you.

Unfortunately, most of my library is flac.  But I might still try out the software since you're so happy with it.  Seems my best bet so far is a "secondary" library for iTunes though.

I'm still hoping someone else out there has a more elegant solution.

Cheers  :)
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vicini

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Hmm, unfortunately, i don't have flac. But, if iTunes see's them as audio and play's it, i see no reason why it wouldn't work the same way as an mp3.

all i can suggest is to give it a try. if it works with flac like it does mp3, i think you will like the end results. both MC and iTunes pointing to 1 file sure is nice.
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Scott

Misterboy

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Hmm, unfortunately, i don't have flac. But, if iTunes see's them as audio and play's it, i see no reason why it wouldn't work the same way as an mp3.

all i can suggest is to give it a try. if it works with flac like it does mp3, i think you will like the end results. both MC and iTunes pointing to 1 file sure is nice.

iTunes and the iPhone don't support FLAC.  Using a "device" in Media Center, allows you to convert automatically to MP3, which is one of that tactic's benefits.
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vicini

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Using a "device" in Media Center, allows you to convert automatically to MP3, which is one of that tactic's benefits.

Yes it does and since iTunes doesn't support flac, this sounds like you're only option.
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Scott

Misterboy

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I'm still hoping that someone will read this thread who uses MC and an iPhone regularly, who can tell me how they do it.  I'm naively keeping my fingers crossed :)
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Magic_Randy

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I also use MCiS. Have been since it was released. I use MCiS to sync multiple iPhones, iPads, and iPods.

I never have a problem with new new versions of iTunes or MC.

There is a document included when you download it that explains how to configure it for flac.
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Misterboy

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It's looking like that's the way to go.  Thanks for the input!
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sunfire7

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Maybe this is not as good as MCiS, but this is my process:

For the first time you need this:

1.- Create a view in MC to show only the songs you want on the iphone (flac and mp3 allowed)
2.- Create a handheld to sync a playlist a folder with the same conditions as the view you created but with ONLY the flac files you want to sync (same conditions as the view but -mp3 files, this way you will only convert flacs you need)
3.- Run the handheld, after that, the mp3's must be cached in the flac files
4.- Select the view in MC, select all and clic stack > Expand stacks
5.- Clic on File > Export to itunes and iphone, put options as you like, then wait to finish, collapse stacks if you want
6.- Sync iphone with itunes

For the next syncs only do 3 to 6.

If you care about the space, you could erase the handheld folder as the mp3's are cached into the flacs


To J River Team:
This process would be easier and better if you make automatic cache for flac files when doing Export to itunes and iphone


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Misterboy

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Maybe this is not as good as MCiS, but this is my process:

For the first time you need this:

1.- Create a view in MC to show only the songs you want on the iphone (flac and mp3 allowed)
2.- Create a handheld to sync a playlist a folder with the same conditions as the view you created but with ONLY the flac files you want to sync (same conditions as the view but -mp3 files, this way you will only convert flacs you need)
3.- Run the handheld, after that, the mp3's must be cached in the flac files
4.- Select the view in MC, select all and clic stack > Expand stacks
5.- Clic on File > Export to itunes and iphone, put options as you like, then wait to finish, collapse stacks if you want
6.- Sync iphone with itunes

For the next syncs only do 3 to 6.

If you care about the space, you could erase the handheld folder as the mp3's are cached into the flacs


To J River Team:
This process would be easier and better if you make automatic cache for flac files when doing Export to itunes and iphone


Holy crap!  Now this is what I'm talking about.  The problem is, I'm not familiar with some of these concepts.  I'm going to have to try to play around and do some reading to see if I can duplicate what you're talking about here!  Thanks for the info!!  And if you feel you can elaborate on any of this, I'd appreciate it!
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sunfire7

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Ok in a couple of days I will explain with more detail, I hope J river could finish the export to itunes feature, dont do it for apple, do it for us, your loyal customers
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Misterboy

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Ok in a couple of days I will explain with more detail, I hope J river could finish the export to itunes feature, dont do it for apple, do it for us, your loyal customers

I've been busy, so haven't had a chance to research your solution myself.  There are definitely some holes in my knowledge about some of the features you're talking about.  Any further explanation would be GREATLY appreciated.  I see this as a way to find a more elegant solution to the problem as well as a way to learn more about Media Center and it's capabilities.

Thanks so much for your time and patience!
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Eccles

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I'm a registered user of MCiS, but I'm always on the lookout for simpler solutions.  I hadn't even noticed the "Export to iTunes and iPhone" option until today, but by the sounds of it, it's an incomplete solution.

My situation is that I have a bunch of stuff ripped to FLAC, and a smartlist that I sync to my iPhone that includes a pseudo-random selection of 4- and 5-star tunes that I haven't played in at least six months.  I use the FLAC handling process described in the notes that come with MCiS.

It all works, but because the playlist changes every time, and is dependent on Last Played date that is updated from iTunes, I have to
  • Sync the iPhone with iTunes
  • Run MCiS
  • Sync my MC virtual device to convert any new FLAC tunes that are now included in the smartlist
  • Run MCiS again
  • Sync the iPhone with iTunes again

Add in the fact that iTunes is such a slug when importing new tunes from MCiS, and this whole process can take an entire evening from go to whoa.  Fortunately I only have to be there to manually fire off processes every now and then, but it's far from a one-stop solution.

You'll also note that I said my smartlist is pseudo-random.  I really wanted a truly random selection, but because that causes the playlist to be regenerated each time it's referenced, that results in a different selection being passed to the FLAC conversion than gets synched to iTunes.  I've had to settle for a constant selection criteria based on date played and just shuffle when I play it.

If anyone has any better ideas, I'm open to suggestions.  Meanwhile I continue to live in hope that eventually, one day, I'll be able to sync my iPhone directly to MC just as I can my iPod Classic.
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Misterboy

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I'm a registered user of MCiS, but I'm always on the lookout for simpler solutions.  I hadn't even noticed the "Export to iTunes and iPhone" option until today, but by the sounds of it, it's an incomplete solution.

My situation is that I have a bunch of stuff ripped to FLAC, and a smartlist that I sync to my iPhone that includes a pseudo-random selection of 4- and 5-star tunes that I haven't played in at least six months.  I use the FLAC handling process described in the notes that come with MCiS.

It all works, but because the playlist changes every time, and is dependent on Last Played date that is updated from iTunes, I have to
  • Sync the iPhone with iTunes
  • Run MCiS
  • Sync my MC virtual device to convert any new FLAC tunes that are now included in the smartlist
  • Run MCiS again
  • Sync the iPhone with iTunes again

Add in the fact that iTunes is such a slug when importing new tunes from MCiS, and this whole process can take an entire evening from go to whoa.  Fortunately I only have to be there to manually fire off processes every now and then, but it's far from a one-stop solution.

You'll also note that I said my smartlist is pseudo-random.  I really wanted a truly random selection, but because that causes the playlist to be regenerated each time it's referenced, that results in a different selection being passed to the FLAC conversion than gets synched to iTunes.  I've had to settle for a constant selection criteria based on date played and just shuffle when I play it.

If anyone has any better ideas, I'm open to suggestions.  Meanwhile I continue to live in hope that eventually, one day, I'll be able to sync my iPhone directly to MC just as I can my iPod Classic.

Thanks for your response.  It's always good to see how people manage this task.  But like you, it's frustrating that there isn't a more elegant solution.

If I find something better, I'll be sure to post it here!
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fischerai

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I recently started using MC but I am using itunes/iphone for many years. Therefore I don't understand why you use flac when you have an apple device? I always convert my flac files (incl. highres audio files) to apple lossless. The quality remains the same and itunes and iphone can cope with the format. You can set up itunes to convert the files to 128 kbit aac files when syncing with your iphone to save space on your phone and you can have the same file source for MC and itunes.

-Rainer
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Misterboy

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I recently started using MC but I am using itunes/iphone for many years. Therefore I don't understand why you use flac when you have an apple device? I always convert my flac files (incl. highres audio files) to apple lossless. The quality remains the same and itunes and iphone can cope with the format. You can set up itunes to convert the files to 128 kbit aac files when syncing with your iphone to save space on your phone and you can have the same file source for MC and itunes.

-Rainer

Rainer,

That's a pretty good point.

I use FLAC because it stands for FREE lossless audio codec.  I know that Apple has recently loosened it's grip on AAC, so it makes for a more viable choice, but my main complaint with Apple in general is it's total control over everything.  Granted, that means I shouldn't be an Apple customer, and I wouldn't be, if it wasn't for my wife.

The main reason, however, is that I'm hoping to find a one-stop easy solution to basically cut iTunes out of the loop because I've found it to be a buggy POS on Windows.

But the fact remains that you make a valid point for others to whom Apple controlled software isn't anathema.  Personally, the thought of converting all my music to AAC is just... uncomfortable.

Thanks though!
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reedk

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ok, I spent some time sorting this out and here's what I found.
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2012, 07:03:36 pm »

I'm in a similar camp of wanting to know how to get MC and ITunes to play well together so here's what I pieced together from the various posts.  I'll post the how to next.

The two choices I fould are you can move to all itunes compatible formats and synchronize everything (i.e. one set of music files with separate but synchronized MC and ITunes databases pointing at them) or you can move to one lossless format (it may be possible to use multiple lossless formats but I don’t know how) and use MC to produce a set of mp3 files and playlists in itunes (i.e. two sets of your music files:   the master one for MC that may include FLAC files and a second one for itunes that is mp3 only.)

Most of the time when people have trouble getting the synch or the injection to set up it’s because they have non apple compatible lossless file formats and/or because they have a lot of meta data and album art that they customized but which is not written out to the music files.  Most of the work of getting MC and ITunes to play well together is in cleaning up the music formats and making sure the metadata and album art is out in the music files.  If you’re already mp3 and your metadata was automatically added then it’s very easy.

Why would you pick which one?  Some people want to have really broad integration where they use features from both systems and are willing to move to compatible formats to get that.  Others either just want to use itunes as a pipe to push some of their music into their apple devices or do not want to move to apple compatible formats.  Both are pretty reasonable positions to take but the former model means once everything is in apple compatible formats (potentially a lot of work) it’s easy to get any apple feature you want without having to migrate to itunes while the latter is less work (you don’t have to move files to an apple compatible format) but it can be complicated to set up depending on what feature set you want.  A single injection is relatively straight forward.  Synchronizing injections is more complicated. 

To get MC and ITunes to play well together:
1.   Make sure your metadata is written from the mc data base out to the tags in files.   That way iTunes will see it.
2.   If you are using non apple compatible formats – this usually means you are using FLAC or WMA lossless for your lossless files – then decide if you are willing to move to all apple compatible formats or if you want to stay with a non apple compatible format such as FLAC and are willing to settle for less functionality and/or a more complex setup.  Moving to Apple compatible formats typically means moving your FLAC to ALAC or MP3.  Obviously abandoning lossless for .mp3 makes everything easier but I think most audiophiles will cringe at using MP3 instead of lossless especially those that use 24/96 or 24/192 sampled files.   
3.   If you are using multiple lossless file formats then decide on one and migrate your lossless files to that format.  If you want to be apple compatible that’s ALAC.  If you don’t want to use ALAC then it’s typically FLAC.

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reedk

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Here's the step by step
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2012, 07:10:50 pm »

Step 1:  make sure your metadata is written from the MC database out to music files.   

You will want to make sure the tag info and cover art is written into the music file so that it can pass through the converter and so that it will be seen by ITunes when you point it at your music files.  By default, mc keeps cover art you brought in and tag information you updated in the database rather than in the file.  However, when you migrate a file to a new format it won’t know that the new file is really the same as the old file only a different format and extension.  It will appear as if the tags and album art are lost.  Songs that used to appear as one album may become multiple albums.  To avoid this we need to make sure all the information is in the music file so it can pass through the converter and be in the converted music file.  By setting up MC to always keep tag and album art in the music file we will also ensure that ITunes has all of the tag information and cover art since it only sees what’s in the music file. 

To do this set Tools > Options > General > Save cover art inside tags when possible and Tools>Options>General> Update tags when file info changes.  Then select all your files right click>library tools>update your tags (from library).   Particularly for classical where you typically will do a lot of tag editing after import it’s important to move the data from the library to the tags if you want the conversion to work smoothly.  You may want to do this in chunks because if you’ve provided much of the cover art the process seems to drag to a halt and click away from and then back to MC17 the dialog that counts what tags have been written disappears and you can’t tell if MC 17 is just slowly chugging along or dead.    But while it may take a day or so it is typically chugging along.  It’s never actually crashed on me.
If you need to migrate lossless files the I would also suggest making sure all of music files are in one library such as my music or public.  If you want to keep your music in multiple libraries then you’ll need to run step 3 against each library.

Step 2:  Move your music library to one (or less) lossless file format.  Apple compatible if you intend to go to step 3 with one set of music files.  Probably FLAC if you intend to go to step 3 alternate with one set of music files for MC and a second set of .mp3 files for itunes.

If everything is in MP3 then great.  You’re apple compatible and have no lossless file formats.  Go straight to the step 3 or 3 alternate.

If you have multiple lossless file formats or you have non apple compatible formats that you need to move to apple compatible then you’ll need to migrate some files to new formats.    Below are the instructions for switching from WMA lossless and FLAC to ALAC.  If you’re just trying to go from many lossless formats to a single non apple format such as FLAC it’s basically the same process.  You convert the files in place, search and replace the file extensions in your play lists, and then delete the originals.

If you’ve got a lot of music you may want to start by creating a test library with your different music types and a couple of play lists in it and running through the process a couple of times.  Cleaning up and moving a full library is a lot of cpu chugging, possibly days of chugging, so redoing a step because you got it wrong can be time consuming.

1.   Make sure you’ve written metadata and album art out from the database to the music file tags.
2.   Make a backup copy of your music in a backup folder.  If you need it you’ll be glad you have it.
3.   Next we’re going to convert the lossless files you want to convert, leaving them in the same directory as the originals and with the same name but with a new format and a new extension.  To do this buy a copy of dbpoweramp, install the wma codec if you’re converting wma files, and be sure you get the reference version.   I’m sure other programs work but I used dbpoweramp and it works.  If it’s not finding the wma files then you didn’t install the WMA codec yet.  When you are selecting files for conversion, use the filter button to exclude mp3’s (and all lossy apple compatible formats you have ) since there is no reason to convert those to lossless.  To make it easy to modify your playlists to work with the new formats you want the directory structure and files names to be just like the old ones only with a different extension.  To do this during conversion with DBPOWERAMP set the output folder to your music directory and then set output folder to dynamic and use the following string:  \[origpath]\[orgfilename].  This option will be greyed out if you didn’t buy the reference version.  This should put the converted file in the same directory as the original and with the same name but a different extension.   You can check if it’s working by setting it up and checking with the List/Rename button in dpboweramp.     
4.   Next import all the new files into MC.  Do this by either importing your music directory with \file\library\library manager\import or making sure auto import is on by setting Tools\options\library and folders\auto import  to your music directory.
5.   To update your playlists bring up MC and go to each playlist, select all the files, right click and go to library tools/search and replace, check the file extension and file name, and replace the old extensions (say wma) with the new extension (m4a if you moved to ALAC).    If you are migrating a couple of file types you will need to do one search for each file type.  Answer Yes when MC asks you if you really want to update the tags. 
6.   You can check that the conversion worked by looking at each album that was lossless.  Each song should be in there twice.  Once in the original format and once in the new format.  Alternatively, you can wait until we delete all the original format copies and count the files in your music directory and compare that to the file count in your backup copy.  If they are different then you can walk down the directories to find the folder where the file counts  in your music directories are different from the ones in your backup directories.
7.   To delete the original lossless files go to audio\files, make sure file type is in the display bar, and sort on the file type.  Select your old lossless files and delete them.    Be sure to do this after you’ve updated your playlists to the new lossless format files or MC will automatically delete the songs from your playlists.
8.   You should now be back to the same music library and playlists you had but with new formats.

Step 3:  Setting up MC and ITunes to use the same apple compatible music directory

Once you have your jriver files and playlists as you want them and once you have your new music directory in an apple compatible format then use MCiS from http://www.misterpete.co.uk/mcis.html (see also  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51734.0 )to sync the itunes and the jriver databases.    It’s fairly easy to set up just by looking at the dialogs that come up when you run it but it’s worth it to read the accompanying pdf file.  It’s a short read.

Step 3 Alternate:  Setting up MC to output a set of MP3’s and playlists for ITunes to use from a non apple compatible collection of music

If you want to sync the output then get the document that comes with the MCiS synchronizer software from http://www.misterpete.co.uk/mcis.html   When you upack the zip you’ll find a pdf called ZxsixsGuideToSyncingLossless.pdf that describes in good detail how to do it.   It works pretty well.

Alternately,  if you want to put a few songs on your iphone there is a less onerous option that doesn’t require that you move your MC library to apple compatible formats or set up complicated synching.  It's the method above that uses export to itunes in MC on a device that is really a hard drive.
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