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[Matt]

I'm thinking about how the 0%-100% volume slider should map to decibels when using Internal Volume.

Currently it looks like this:
0%: silence
10%: -46 dB
25%: -27 dB
50%: -14 dB
75%: -6 dB
100%: 0 dB

Here are some random thoughts about this:

The volume control gets finer at high volumes which almost seems like the opposite of what you need.  

A 10dB difference is about twice as loud seeming, so when the volume is at 50%, it's actually a little less than half as loud as it can sound.  Personally I wish there were more gas left in the tank at the 50% mark.

A linear decibel scale from 0dB to -100dB makes sense in one regard, but it would mean 100% would be twice as loud as 90% and a lot of users would never use below 50%.

This is a little like the problem of throttle tip-in tables for a car.  Car engineers like to make slow cars feel faster than they are by running the engine at 80% with 10% throttle. (I warned these were random thoughts).

How would it work if it were just a two-slope curve, like:
0%: silence
1%: -100 dB
10%: -70 dB
20%: -40 dB (beginning of other slope)
40%: -30 dB
60%: -20 dB
80%: -10 dB
100%: 0 dB

Advice?

[rick.ca]

It seems to me this would be a more useful scale. As it is, I reduce my sound card volume so I can make better use of the 25 - 75% part of the scale. Otherwise, I'm using the 0 - 25% part which I find is too steep.

[hulkss]

Read this: http://www.dr-lex.be/info-stuff/volumecontrols.html

[mojave]

The two-slope curve looks great and would improve the granularity in the lower volume register.

[Skogkatt]

If you aim at usability, then I would keep the scale in use now as the double slope would attenuate too much for slider positions lower than 50%.

What remains misleading is the association between a percentage scale and decibels: in technical terms 50% means -6.02 dB and 25% is -12.04 dB
A position scale (i.e. 1 - 20) rather than percentage would be more appropriate.

Personally, if I would need to use MC's volume, then I would implement no more than 20 dB attenuation (factor 10x) for the entire volume control range
with the possibility to increase attenuation even more through the mouse wheel > this would be nice if the attenuation remains clearly visible until mouse is
kept over the slider. To achieve infinite attenuation it would anyway be faster using mute.

For the convolver users it would also be helpful a positive attenuation up to +10 dB to compensate some (perceived) losses with particular compensation filters: reset to 0 dB
can be obtained with a double click on the volume slider...as some VST plugins do.

Last idea is implementing a user defined control range (through option dialog) and divide linearly in dBs the slider scale: i.e. min. attenuation -10 dB, max. attenuation -25 dB,
then slider is linearly spaced in dBs over a 15 dB span. Again, zero volume only through mute.

[phusis]

Matt -

Thanks for bringing this up.

Using the internal volume control of MC 17 with somewhat sensitive speakers(94dB), even with a poweramp sporting only 22dB gain, I've effectively reached my listening level limit with a volume setting slightly above 20%(already at 10% one senses a "looming tsunami" of SPL..!), and I'd therefore welcome a lower output in the first half of the volume slider. With MC's internal volume control as is I have so far seen it necessary to bypass it, and instead (successfully) uses my nuForce DAC-9 volume control(which is "digitally controlled in the analogue domain," whatever that means).

However, I'd like to experiment more with the internal volume control of MC17(in bypassing the one in my DAC), if a finer "granularity" of the first half of the meter(volume slider) is implemented.

[Matt]

Personally, if I would need to use MC's volume, then I would implement no more than 20 dB attenuation (factor 10x) for the entire volume control range
with the possibility to increase attenuation even more through the mouse wheel > this would be nice if the attenuation remains clearly visible until mouse is
kept over the slider. To achieve infinite attenuation it would anyway be faster using mute.

For comfortable background listening, I need about -40  dB or -50 dB so I'd be it trouble if -20 dB was as low as it went!

[mojave]

For comfortable background listening, I need about -40  dB or -50 dB so I'd be it trouble if -20 dB was as low as it went!

I agree. I listen in my office during the day at about -50 dB. Any louder and my coworkers can hear my music.

[Matt]

In a coming build we'll try this:

20%-100%: -0.5 dB per percent
10%-20%: -1.5 dB per percent
0%-10%: -4.5 dB per percent

This gives:
0%: -100 dB (silence)
10%: -55 dB
20%: -40 dB
30%: -35 dB
40%: -30 dB
50%: -25 dB
60%: -20 dB
70%: -15 dB
80%: -10 dB
90%: -5 dB
100%: 0 dB

Thanks for the help everyone.

[Skogkatt]

For comfortable background listening, I need about -40  dB or -50 dB so I'd be it trouble if -20 dB was as low as it went!

Which means a slider position (with 17.0.85) between 8 and 13% and a resolution of approximately 2 dB step.

As the volume slider has 100 steps, why not let the user define the step attenuation?
With 0.25 dB step you can have a 25 dB range, with 0.5 dB step you get 50 dB and so on.

Doing so one can adapt the volume to his needs maintaining the highest resolution allowed by the 100 steps and a
constant step increment in decibels.

[Matt]

I split the discussion about the merits of different volume modes here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=69988.0

[J-a-k-e]

Reading this thread has got me thinking. I think Media centre needs support for custom volume profiles and custom profile loading rules for different zones, particularly for those of us who use our pc to control volume output and leave our amplifiers set to -0db.

 I believe there are several reasons for this:
-- As others in this thread have already stated there is most always quite a difference in volume between audio and video files, more so if you are someone who uses replay gain on your audio files with fixed adjustment.
-- I want to be able to configure load and save audio volume profiles for each zone with each profile having the ability to set a minimum db point at 1% volume and also be able to configure variable db stepping at various points on the volume scale.
-- Volume profile loading rules based on a custom field such as media type is something that makes a lot of sense to me and would help to avoid a huge variation in volume between audio and video media especially if you have mixed media loaded into a playlist for example.
--The ability to easily set a configurable upper db  limit on the volume control would be handy as I estimate my system has an in room peak response of about 115 db at full noise and as such more for peace of mind than anything else I wont to make sure things can't accidental be set to loud for night tine or general listening.

To use my lounge setup as an example, music is volume level adjusted to 0db fixed and average track replay gain volume is -12db. Very quiet background listening happens at about -40db on the volume scale, while -15db is about a good halfway volume  and 0db is more than comfortably loud enough for most scenarios. Although at 0db because of the nature of replay gain I still need to set fixed replay gain volume to about +10db for most tracks before I risk having the clip light flicker on the amp. Volume levels for movies/tv shows on the other hand are about -40db for a comfortable listening  -15 is usually more than loud enough.

[fidelious]

@Matt,

I seem to remember this topic from August last year, when I brought up the idea of using a dB-based internal volume control: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=65676.0

Thank you for what I see as honouring my then-ignored request!

An even happier MC music listener.