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[elsid]

I've spent a ridiculous amount of time on this over the last week. I actually got it working at one point, the lost it again. I was able to fix it by using a system restore point. Last night I reinstalled XP (clean install) and i'm back where I started - HDMI AC3 Bitstreaming just gives me high speed beeping and buzzing, etc. Not exactly "static"...more like digital static.

I've been all over the menus with no luck. MPC HC works great and I can get it to bitstream in about 1min 4-5 mouse clicks and i'm gtg. I've multiple codec packs (SAF, CCCP, Shark007). I've been real careful to clean up one pack before installing the next, but in the end this is why I reinstalled xp last night. I had some weird errors due to lots of tinkering (to get bitstreaming going) and thought a clean install, with MC, and minimal mess/codecs would be a good idea. However, i'm back to no audio.

my system:
a6-3500 apu
2x2gb ram
winxp 32
MC 17.099

I've tried ROst + HDMI, ROst + ac3(removed dts and other formats), custome + various codecs and renderers.

I've examined the Filter graph info, and compared it to other players (MPC HC) and they are the same except for the J river parts. IMO the J River Audio Renderer is failing to match up w/ the ATI HD Audio rear output properly. Doing a search for the JR audio renderer's CLSID in the Registry didn't have any matches. Perhaps it doesn't need to be registered but I thought that's what the CLSID was for. I honestly have no idea and have been investigating everything i can. I'm a AV/HTPC noob, but not a computer noob. It shouldn't be this difficult to get audio - especially audio that is just passed through untouched.

Would really appreciate any and all help. I can provide filter graphs, media info, etc if needed. I really like the look and feel of MC, and when bitstreaming is working i love it, but darn it just shouldn't be this hard...

[DrWhom]

Do you have a coax/optical output that you could try bitstreaming with, just to narrow the problem down?

[elsid]

Unfortunately my pc's motherboard doesn't have S/PDIF. It has the header, but i'd have to get the accessory to plug in.

[DrWhom]

Does audio work as expected outside of bitstreaming?  Do you have the latest Catalyst drivers installed? (12.2 preview is wonky for me, I use 12.1)

[elsid]

Yes, i'm using CCC 12.1 also.

In lieu of bitstreaming i'm using DSP 2-channel, and letting my receiver convert to Dolby PLII. The quality of this is significanly lower than DD. My setup goes HDMI => Vizio EV420 TV Optical => AVR (HK AVR146). The 146 won't process audio over hdmi, just switch and pass it on, so I  send all inputs to my tv, then output a single optcial to the receiver, which it can decode easily. Also, it's much easier on the wife to just swap TV inputs than mess w/ the receiver. Again, this is the only program to give me grief over this. I do know the ATI HDMI output is very particular - audio has to render directly to it. Not "Default device", "Direct show audio:Ati..." etc

[fitbrit]

I never got bitstreaming to work in XP, with any software player. Same hardware with Win7 and all was well.

[Sandy B Ridge]

I never got bitstreaming to work in XP, with any software player. Same hardware with Win7 and all was well.

I had mega-hassle with Vista. Same hardware bitstreamed first time with Windows 7.

SBR

[elsid]

I'd love to pop win7 in there, but pinching pennies till I don't have a choice. If I fo that though, I'll probably just use wmc. Jrmc was supposed to take care of it, but it seems to be the only one I can't get to work. It worked for a while then I reinstalled and hosed it up. Guess I need to leave well enough alone

[fitbrit]

Did you set up your audio device in MC? Go to options>audio and make sure that the correct device is selected.

[elsid]

Using Kernal Streaming w/ the ATI HDMI output selected under that.

Keep the ideas coming guys. I truely appreciate all the input.

The mystery piece to me is the JR audio renderer listed in the filter graph. I'm assuming it's a generic 'label' they use to encompass what ever audio device you select. But what is it? How does it work? Etc. Seems that renderer isn't connecting to the ati properly.

[CountryBumkin]

I use Win 7 (and I don't recall what the properties screen looks like in Vista) but there should be a Sound properties dispaly box like below:


Do you have this?
Does your computer support the formats you are trying to play?

In MC: Tools>Options>Audio

[CountryBumkin]

My setup goes HDMI => Vizio EV420 TV Optical => AVR (HK AVR146). The 146 won't process audio over hdmi, just switch and pass it on, so I  send all inputs to my tv, then output a single optcial to the receiver, which it can decode easily.

I wonder if this could be the problem. I read on the AVS forum that "most" TVs will not output multichannel (beacuse the TV only has two speakers) and even though it may have an optical out, you will only get 2 channel output. I'll see if I can find that thread and link to it.

What you may need to do is to put a cheap (see monoprice) HDMI splitter on the output and run one cable to TV and one to AVR. I do this with the output from my Directv box. I have also seen that when the computer HDMI is connected to the TV directly (I have this setup on other HTPCs in my house) the sound properties the computer sees are those of the TV, so maybe in your case the computer does not know that there is a source for HD sound (that's why I suggested you look at tha computer's sound properties).

Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment about "just switch pass it on". My receiver (Onkyo 705) passes the Video part HDMI signal through it and process the audio part. But there is a setting on the Onkyo to allow this. If it isn't setup to do this, no video will pass through. I thought this was common for receivers with HDMI. Out of couriousity (not saying I don't believe you) I'll see if I can google the manual for your AVR.

[CountryBumkin]

Also, I saw this on the AVS forum: link http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=832285

To process HDMI video and audio requires an HDMI repeater, the AVR 146 utilizes an HDMI switch which is less expensive..
However the HDMI of AVR 146 has been designed to handle the wide bandwidth of 1080p. So when connecting an HD source such as an HD DVD or Blu Ray player that outputs 1080p HD video connect its HDMI Out to the AVR and then from the HDMI Out of the AVR to the video display. For the HD audio connect either the 5.1 Analog output or transcoded 5.1 audio by S/PDIF from the HD source..

And this

the manual it says the receiver does not process any audio from the HDMI input. There are several receivers out there that do not process audio via HDMI, such as the Pioneer VSX-1016.

I provided the links, take a look yourself. Its on page 17 of the AVR 146 manual and I quote:

NOTE: Although HDMI cables are capable of carrying digital audio signals, the AVR 146 is not designed to process those signals. Therefore if your source and display are both HDMI capable, use the HDMI connections for video only. Make a seperate audio connection from the source device to the AVR 146, and turn the volume on your TV all the way off.

[elsid]

Thanks for all the info Country! I've reviewed all that also in my search for an answer. You're correct, optical will only do 2 channel output (that's why you can't do DD TA or DTS MA on optical), but if it's encoded as DD5.1, 2 is enough. 2 channel decoded PCM would be stereo, and is what i'm using sadly. The receiver converts that stereo to Pro Logic II, but that's not good enough

Yes, my TV will pass the DD signal(only DD unfortunately - darn you vizio) on to my receiver - been doing it this way for a year with a different PC, BD Player, and XBox 360. Basically the TV is converting it from HDMI to Optical, nothing special. Once the TV sends the DD encoded signal to my receiver, the receiver does the decoding (front display will light up and show Dolby Digital 3/2/.1) and I enjoy the glorious 5.1 sounds.

The literature you pointed out about my receiver is again correct. It DOES NOT process audio over hdmi, hence why I'm using the optical.

I've considered a handshake issue between the video card and TV, but that would affect all players, not just jrmc. See this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1227161

I wish I could compare audio properties to your screen shot, but i'm on Win XP SP3. Not as good info there as you have.


Again, thanks for the research. I think I may have come up with a solution, but I'll need to do some "things" and get back

[elsid]

OK. Got this fixed, and I'm extremely embarrassed over how simple it was. I blame...well...inexperience lol

Control Panel > Sounds > Speakers > 5.1 surround

Never used hdmi back under xp, and didn't think it was relevant since we're just sending the audio out untouched. Anyway thanks for all the help guys, I'm afraid this was a case of over thinking it (on my part) and you guys giving me the benefit of thinking I covered the basics.
 

[fitbrit]

I think part of the problem was that so few of us use XP any more. I believe the logic you employed would be correct for Win7 - if audio is being passed untouched, I don't think it matters what the playback device speaker configuration is set to in Win7. That only comes into play for decoding, and only then if you're not passing an untouched signal to the receiver/amp.

P.S. Could you add a [Solved] to the title of your thread, please?

P.P.S. One thing to watch out for - check to see whether your .1 preference sticks between restarts. On my old HTPC it never did. BTW, when I installed Win 7 on my old Opteron 180 based HTPC, it was like I had created a brand new machine. I loved XP, but suddenly everything just worked as it was supposed to.

[elsid]

I think part of the problem was that so few of us use XP any more. I believe the logic you employed would be correct for Win7 - if audio is being passed untouched, I don't think it matters what the playback device speaker configuration is set to in Win7. That only comes into play for decoding, and only then if you're not passing an untouched signal to the receiver/amp.

P.S. Could you add a [Solved] to the title of your thread, please?

P.P.S. One thing to watch out for - check to see whether your .1 preference sticks between restarts. On my old HTPC it never did. BTW, when I installed Win 7 on my old Opteron 180 based HTPC, it was like I had created a brand new machine. I loved XP, but suddenly everything just worked as it was supposed to.

You hit the nail on the head. My Win7 rig served as my htpc for close to a year, and like you said - it just worked. WMC was great. My plan is to use xp + jrmc to save some money, and I think that's heading in the right direction now. The long term wife test will be the real answer.

I did a reboot already and it seems to have stuck.

Appreciate all the help guys.

[fitbrit]

The long term wife test will be the real answer.

I hear that the pass rate for this is heading towards as low as 50% in the USA.

[glynor]

P.P.S. One thing to watch out for - check to see whether your .1 preference sticks between restarts. On my old HTPC it never did. BTW, when I installed Win 7 on my old Opteron 180 based HTPC, it was like I had created a brand new machine. I loved XP, but suddenly everything just worked as it was supposed to.

I have to say... I agree.

Windows 7 is worth every penny.  Pretty much any machine that is still useful on XP will run Windows 7 just fine.  OEM licenses of Windows 7 are only $100, and if you have more than one PC, you can get a three-license Family Pack for $160 (or split it with a friend or relative).  I know that can be a lot of money, but it is worth it.  Think about how much you use it, and how much you use other things you spent that much on.  I don't know... To me it is a no-brainer.

[glynor]

I hear that the pass rate for this is heading towards as low as 50% in the USA.

FYI:  That info is quite old.  The article was written in 2003, and all the statistics they quoted were from 1996.

The Divorce rate in the US is not 50% and never has been.  And, it isn't getting worse...  It seems to fluctuate, probably based on the cyclical nature of generation booms (more 20-something young people means more young, stupid, marriages means more divorce for a period).  As of 2007, US Divorce rates were at the lowest levels seen since 1970 (3.6%) and since then it has dropped further (3.4% as of 2010).

People in developed nations (including the US) are getting married later in life, and are therefore statistically less likely to get divorced over time.  Most of the talk to the contrary is spouting contrived talking points from people who twist the data to fit a per-determined narrative.

PS.  I should add... Not that I think divorce is necessarily a bad thing.  Sometimes, the best choice for a bad marriage is divorce (it certainly beats some of the other common options).  Frankly, it amazes me that the worldwide divorce rates aren't much, much higher considering how unnatural life-long monogamy is among most primates and the strange, religion-based social system we live under.  If anything, it shows the power of social conditioning and religion in aggregate.

[pcstockton]

"In 2008, 49% of all marriages involve a remarriage for one or both spouses. On average, first marriages that end in divorce last about eight years.[11] Of the first marriages for women from 1955 to 1959, about 79 percent marked their 15th anniversary, compared with only 57 percent for women who married for the first time from 1985 to 1989.[11] The median time between divorce and a second marriage was about three and a half years.[11]"

Wiki "divorce is US".  I think people have varied definitions of divorce "rate".

The first statement above is what people think they understand.  But that is 50% of all divorces end in remarriage.  SWEET!!! 

Though most studies think it is near 40%. Also there is a 50% projection thing.  blah blah blah.  I do know far more than 50% of weddings ive been in ended in divorce.  And all were in those advantaged situations that should defy the odds (according to the demographics about age, education, class, etc).

either way the institution is fairly eroded.  It means something else and nothing like the ideal.  Although it does exist individually for sure.  Just not as a sacred "INSTITUTION"

fun discussion.  and far off topic i now realize.  sorry.....

 
-patrick

[fitbrit]

FYI:  That info is quite old.  The article was written in 2003, and all the statistics they quoted were from 1996.

The Divorce rate in the US is not 50% and never has been.  And, it isn't getting worse...  It seems to fluctuate, probably based on the cyclical nature of generation booms (more 20-something young people means more young, stupid, marriages means more divorce for a period).  As of 2007, US Divorce rates were at the lowest levels seen since 1970 (3.6%) and since then it has dropped further (3.4% as of 2010).

People in developed nations (including the US) are getting married later in life, and are therefore statistically less likely to get divorced over time.  Most of the talk to the contrary is spouting contrived talking points from people who twist the data to fit a per-determined narrative.

PS.  I should add... Not that I think divorce is necessarily a bad thing.  Sometimes, the best choice for a bad marriage is divorce (it certainly beats some of the other common options).  Frankly, it amazes me that the worldwide divorce rates aren't much, much higher considering how unnatural life-long monogamy is among most primates and the strange, religion-based social system we live under.  If anything, it shows the power of social conditioning and religion in aggregate.

Firstly, my glib comment was just a joke and I know you know that.
Secondly, I agree with the rest of what you said, in your PS.

[glynor]

Firstly, my glib comment was just a joke and I know you know that.

I know.  I was snickering when I wrote that. 

[elsid]

... (more 20-something young people means more young, stupid, marriages means more divorce for a period)...

PS.  I should add... Not that I think divorce is necessarily a bad thing.  Sometimes, the best choice for a bad marriage is divorce (it certainly beats some of the other common options).  Frankly, it amazes me that the worldwide divorce rates aren't much, much higher considering how unnatural life-long monogamy is among most primates and the strange, religion-based social system we live under.  If anything, it shows the power of social conditioning and religion in aggregate.

I certainly agree with this, since I was one of them.

I have to say... I agree.

Windows 7 is worth every penny.  Pretty much any machine that is still useful on XP will run Windows 7 just fine.  OEM licenses of Windows 7 are only $100, and if you have more than one PC, you can get a three-license Family Pack for $160 (or split it with a friend or relative).  I know that can be a lot of money, but it is worth it.  Think about how much you use it, and how much you use other things you spent that much on.  I don't know... To me it is a no-brainer.

Glynor, you're absolutely right. It's worth every penny, and I may eventually go that route (the hardware is new), but if I do, I will most likely go back to WMC unless I come across a benefit to MC over it.

A little history: I made a comment to my wife that I could build a new HTPC and get my good rig back at my desk for $200. She said that'd be fine, but expected the bill to be double that. USUALLY I would have loved those words, and spent the full $400 but this time I took it as a challenge to meet my mark. In the end, it came out to $201.86 i think. Reused an old PATA hard drive w/ a SATA adapter, no optical, and the infamous old copy of XP. Add in $50 for MC, and I think it's a win.

Back on topic ...Why is it that MC checks the speaker setup in Windows? I'm sure this is a more "correct", or "elegant" method of programming, but it seems unnecessarily difficult. Seems to me that most other players allow you to just connect to the correct output device and/or configure the speakers in the program itself i.e. WMC7(configured in the program), MPC HC(ignores speaker setup, just outputs).

After correcting my XP box, I moved on to my Win7 box and I'm having the same issue there. Unlike XP though, I can't manually configure the speakers, they have to be detected (due to HDCP i believe). Since I connect to a TV first, 2 speakers is my only option. Perhaps a new EDID as mentioned in the article above can fix me up, we'll see.

[elsid]

P.P.S. One thing to watch out for - check to see whether your .1 preference sticks between restarts. On my old HTPC it never did. BTW, when I installed Win 7 on my old Opteron 180 based HTPC, it was like I had created a brand new machine. I loved XP, but suddenly everything just worked as it was supposed to.

Well, I'm not sure if this is the same or not, but my audio dropped out again. Wife was using the Hulu Desktop app, switched back to MC, and bitstreaming is fuq'd. Verified speaker setup is still 5.1, rebooted, did this, did that, etc.

Audio was perfect the last couple of days, and then Bam!

I think it's time for me to get off this J river train.

[fitbrit]

I think it's time for me to get off this J river train.

There's clearly something funky going on with your set up. Are you using an exclusive mode like Wasapi event style?
From another thread: in DSP Studio check the box "Output surround sound as Dolby Digital" This will encode the 5.1 channels MC creates to a format that the AV receiver can decode into 5.1 speakers. I'd really think you'd get a much better experience if you ran a SPDIF cable from your PC to the AVR rather than have the TV as an intermediary though.

Take care, if your station has indeed arrived.

[Bill Kearney]

Much of this insanity is due to HDMI.  it's MUCH worse 'behind the scenes' than most people realize.  The amount of handshaking that can go on is surprising.  What comes as a shock, however, is how poorly, if not downright WRONG, a lot of devices handle it.  Various displays screw it up, same with the AVRs.  They either get it wrong right from the start or screw it up when something changes (like an input to the AVR or the TV).  Add HDCP for copy protection negotiation and sometimes you're well and truly screwed.  

That hardest part is figuring out whether or not you have a device that can actually do it right.  Most folks don't have enough spare equipment lying around, let alone the free time, to set up enough of a test platform to nail down just what's causing the problems.  

None of this is JRiver's fault.  They're just trying to use what the OS tells them is present, and the OS is just going on what the devices tell the video card driver (which may also be getting it wrong).  All of which might be based on screwy input from the display or the AVR.

Oh, and if you're thinking about using an HDMI switch or a matrix, be prepared for even more ugly surprises.  Like all outputs on the matrix or splitter being forced to use the lower-common denominator for audio output.  As in, you plug a 7.1 SRS capable AVR into it and get perfect audio.  But then you plug in a TV that can only do 2-channel stereo... guess what, now the AVR only gets 2-channel.  The negotiation is such that it has to step down to only the best of what the least device is capable of handling.  And, worse still, there are no inexpensive way to strip out the higher-end audio to support the display speakers.  So if you drive the AVR at 7.1 you just plain can't get anything sent to the TV at the same time. 

Your only choice at that point is to hope your source device has other outputs and use them for the TV instead of the HDMI.  But there you could at least output from a source device using component and re-integrate that as 2-channel and video to an HDMI signal.

One gizmo that can help solve or debug the problems is an HDMI Detective device from Gefen.  It's $100 and gives you the ability to force one of 5 pre-set HDMI definitions or record one from your own devices.  This way you can 'fake out' the HDMI source device into thinking something is hooked up.  Or correct for the fact that the device provides bad handshaking data.  This at least helps eliminate that part of the HDMI stream from the problem.  Then you fall back on whether or not the video card driver does it's job properly.  And then Windows support (which may have to be purged of bad drivers from previously connected devices).  Once ALL THAT is nailed down only THEN does it become something for JRiver to handle.

HDMI is not as simple as one might hope.  It's got great potential but there are lots of unexpected gotchas along the way.

[elsid]

There's clearly something funky going on with your set up. Are you using an exclusive mode like Wasapi event style?
From another thread: in DSP Studio check the box "Output surround sound as Dolby Digital" This will encode the 5.1 channels MC creates to a format that the AV receiver can decode into 5.1 speakers. I'd really think you'd get a much better experience if you ran a SPDIF cable from your PC to the AVR rather than have the TV as an intermediary though.

Take care, if your station has indeed arrived.

Wasapi isn't available in XP afaik.

The on-board audio does support S/PDIF, however the mobo doesn't include a backplate for it, just the header pins. I may do this at some point. I'm also looking at just using the analog outputs to my avr.

In the mean time I'm launching MPC HC as an external player for mkv and ts files. Live tv will just have to be in ProLogic.

On the upside, the wife is going to be so annoyed she'll be the one begging for Win7 hehe