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[prufrock]

Is this true
You can only listen to music in 5.1, 7.1 etc if it was recorded in that format. Trying to convert a stereo recording into surround sound using sound cards and software will degrade the sound, make bit perfect output impossible and generally result in an unsatisfactory result.  TIA

[Matt]

You can use JRSS upmixing to convert stereo to 5.1 / 7.1 using DSP Studio > Output Format.

I love how this sounds, but like all audio processing it's completely optional.

[prufrock]

Matt
Is there a thread related to this? Otherwise I could end up asking the same questions you have answered before?

[audioriver]

It's a matter of personal taste, there's no black and white answer. Technically, these algorithms have come a long way since their first appearance in A/V receivers. In those days indeed, they could degrade the stereo image for the sake of a showy surround effect, so the original stereo track was best left alone. Today, both Dolby ProLogic IIx/z and JRSS do an excellent, natural upmixing job, and I'm sure other good algorithms exist too.

[prufrock]

The reason I ask is that my stereo system consists of four Vandersteen 1 speakers, two Vandersteen 2wq subs and an integrated stereo amp. So I am only a centre speaker away from a 5.2. And amps of course. The stereo sounds good but I do like the feeling of being surrounded by sound. Feels more natural to me than stereo. So from what you and Matt have said it looks like mixing to 5.1 etc has improved and the sound is not degraded in the process.  Anyone else out there doing this and liking the result?
I have being trying out the JRSS  here on the desktop where I have a little Yahama 5.1 system. Bought it years ago. Its all wired up for 5.1 but I never bothered ever getting a soundcard with digital out so its always just been hooked up for stereo. Had bit of a play and the DSP didnt sound too bad. Its only a $500 system though.
I cant try it out on the main system as it is just wired for stereo. Has anyone heard  the DSP doing stereo to 5.1 on a good system?

[prufrock]

Anyone able to help out by pointing me in the direction of some information on this issue. Googling comes up blanks. TIA

[audioriver]

I don't think you'll find much in the vein of good/bad. It depends a lot on the source. If you play a full, richly separated stereo track, the surround effect will be good and effective. If you have a simple, almost-mono track, the surround will be minimal. Again, technically, in neither of these cases will the sound be 'ruined', with unexpected audio coming out from the rear speakers. It could happen, but it'd be an exception. The rule is for delicate, ambient sound added to the rear speakers. So, you will have to try for yourself and keep the effect if you like it, that's the ultimate test.
Since now all connections are digital, there's not to worry from multiple analogue-digital conversions as in the past. Of course, if you apply the effect to a device connected with analogue ports (e.g. a turntable), there's an extra conversion and the result might be slightly inferior.
You could try researching on Dolby ProLogic II to understand how it works. Before DPII, there was also DTS NEO: 6 - I didn't like it back then, haven't tested its newer versions.

[prufrock]

Thanks for the reply. Will do some reading on the above.

[SamuelMaki]

I think this debends which speakers you have... I did use Martin Logan´s in front and basic Dunlavy´s at back and old but reliable subwoofer. I did experiment with 2.0, 2.1 and JRSS 4.1 and Dolby ProLogic II 4.1, and I found that the best sound came from using 2.1 sound system. I did prefer that format because my front speakers were superior compared to my surround speakers, but I did use of JRSS subwoofer with Subclarity... Before I had Martin Logan´s, I used those Dunlavy´s front, subwoofer and two-way movie surround speakers at back. Back then I did like the way my AVR upmixed the sound to 4.1 (it was old, heavy and expensive Sony and it used some other alchorithm than Prologic or DTS NEO...). Nowadays I have the Dunlavy´s front and only subwoofer, so I double wired my front speakers with AVR and subwoofer and I am sending 2.0 signal to my AVR, which sends it full range to my speakers, which send below 120Hz to my subwoofer... It does sound better than using 2.1 from JRiver and letting my AVR to manage the subwoofer...

So, try different combinations and decide yourself which one sounds the best

[nwboater]

So, try different combinations and decide yourself which one sounds the best

It's so easy to try different things using JRiver DSP. You can read other peoples opinions forever but they don't have your equipment, room or ears. So just do some experimenting. If you have any difficulty making sense out of the settings someone here will gladly help you.

FWIW we have a Klipsch Heritage 5.1 system with large Danley DTS-10 sub and we use JRSS. We do spend more time with movies than music though.

Ideally all speakers would be 'timbre matched'. So I would really try to get a new center that will well match your mains and sides. Sometimes that can be a challenge.

Have fun.

Rod

[prufrock]

Appreciate your help. I have four Vandersteen 1 main speakers and two Vandersteen 2wq subs atm (via a stereo amp). I know Vandersteen do a very good centre speaker so I am almost there in terms of a 5.2. However, the only way to try out it would be to buy/borrow a multi channel surround amp and wire it all up as a multi channel system wouldn't it?

[hulkss]

Anyone able to help out by pointing me in the direction of some information on this issue. Googling comes up blanks. TIA

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=69060.msg465159#msg465159

[prufrock]

Thanks for links Hulkss

[hulkss]

I really like the sound of DTS Neural Upmix. Works as a VST plugin in MC.

[mojave]

I use JRSS to upmix music with the option selected to "Move center to front L/R." When this option is selected, JRSS leaves the front L/R with the original material and just upmixes to the surrounds with the extracted ambiance cues.

Here is a paper by Carlos Avendano and Jean-Marc Jot that one method of upmixing technique in technical detail. These guys later developed the CMSS-3D upmixing used by Creative Labs in their X-Fi cards.

FREQUENCY DOMAIN TECHNIQUES FOR STEREO TO
MULTICHANNEL UPMIX

You can easily test a JRSS upmix vs just stereo by putting one of the Parametric EQ DSPs at the end of your filter chain. Click Options in the upper right after selecting the DSP and select "Process only when viewed." In the Parametric EQ add mute and select all channels other than the front L/R. Now you can arrow between the Parametric EQ DSP and the DSP right above it. If you have JRSS on and select a the other DSP then you will get the complete upmix. However, if you arrow down to the Parametric EQ DSP (make sure it is checked) then all speakers but the mains will be muted and you will hear the complete original stereo signal from your mains.

With the levels adjusted properly on all channels you should never hear any of the surrounds when listening to music. They add ambiance and spaciousness, but you shouldn't actually be able to pinpoint any sound coming from the surrounds. When I toggle from just stereo to JRSS the sense of space in the room changes and the walls seem to disappear.