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[HTPC4ME]

i was just about to finish changing over my whole library from keywords back to genres. and artistS back to artist, (I wanted to benefit from jrivers get movie info so that it would tag properly) because i read it was now possible to have multiple Genres, and multiple artists... well i needed to change a bunch of files keywords tag... so i chose genres (where i had previously move/copy from keywords to genre, keep source)
and when i clicked on genre which had 4000 files in it it said varies so i clicked on the up arrow and it changed all 4000 genre tags to 3D (which is the first choice when you select keywords) and i lost all my genre tags. i had to select all files and chose move/copy to get those keywords tags back in to genre so that files would should up with multiple genres in them.

Can we please get ticks for Genre, and for Artist so we don't screw up our library files that have mulitple genres,artistS in them.

This is dangerous for new users and intermediate users such as myself...for the mean time i will redo all my standard views, theaterviews, gizmo, and rules back to keywords and ArtistS.

[rick.ca]

This is dangerous for new users and intermediate users such as myself.

It's true a field with list-type editing avoids the issue, but the source of the problem is unrelated. It's equally dangerous for any field except those with list-type editing (i.e., including all non-list fields). It may seem like a subtle thing, considering you can abort by pressing <Escape> before <Enter>, or Undo afterwards. But that's beside the point. It shouldn't be selecting the first item by itself—and then not simultaneously changing the edit window from '[Varies]' to the value it has selected. It's possible to look at the drop-down, then abandon the edit—and then assume nothing will be changed because, well, nothing was changed.

I'd call it a bug. A list edit-type being made available to [Artist], [Genre], etc. is separate matter. If there's a reason why the edit-type can't be changed, I don't know what it is.

[rpalmer68]

I noticed this too, and have also manged to wipe out a few genre tags I had already set.

I agree that the tick-box way of editng them is preferable to the current way, as it is WAY to easy to wipe them and there is no cancel button to back out of you do wipe them!

Also how does one select multiple genres with the current method setup? I have had to manually type them in with a ; between them if thre is more than one which is very annoying.

R

[HTPC4ME]

rpalmer thats why i had to change all my views, settings back to keywords and artistS.
As it sits now i have over 40 genres, it is physically impossible for me to remember all of them.

Men In Black Keywords
Action
kids & family
Sci fi
500 Top Movies

Via the genre route i would have to remember them all, make sure i type them correctly and with same casing
like so...
Action; kids & family; Sci fi; 500 Top Movies
But if i need to add another tag in the future... we watch movie and feel it should go under say Suspense as well. then being there are no ticks i will have to re-write the whole line again Action; kids & family; Sci fi; 500 Top Movies; Suspense

Way to much manual work. so in future when i use get movie info i will just make sure all artist and genre get copied over to artistS and keywords then i can add my custom keywords to the file... once/IF genre and artist get's ticking then i will just select all files and move-copy keywords/artistS to genre/artist then reset all views and settings to use artist and genre.

[rick.ca]

Way to much manual work.

And error-prone. MC downloads genres to [Genre]. You have no choice or control over that. Leave it alone. Add a custom list field [Genre.+] (with a list edit-type!) and use that for you additional values. Combine them using a [Genre.x] expression field, and use that in your views. You'll never have any problem adding values, and you'll be able to update the meta data in the future without overwriting the values you've added.

Here's a puzzle...What expression would combine [Action; Sci fi] and [-Action; Suspense; kids & family; 500 Top Movies] to produce [Suspense; Sci fi; kids & family; 500 Top Movies]? If we can figure that one out, you could use [Genre.+] to remove values from [Genre].

MrC?

[Grenache]

Can we please get ticks for Genre, and for Artist so we don't screw up our library files that have mulitple genres,artistS in them.

+1

[HTPC4ME]

thanks for reply Rick.. honestly i dont have the time to learn a whole new "way" i've gotten use to keywords, artistS for the last couple years... much easier to stay that way until it get's implemented, then to have to re-tag all my files and chance a total library catastrophe.

[darichman]

I agree with the request. For any custom list fields I create I always set the edit type as 'list'.

There are a few problems with the 'standard' edit type for list fields, and often you don't realise you've made sweeping changes until it's too late:

• pane editing: this is really problematic. If you have multiple list entries and attempt to check/uncheck one, all of the other entries are wiped. This is dangerous and unintuitive.
• pane editing: Also, if you select and rename an entry from the panes (F2), all the other list entries for the files selected will be wiped and replaced only with the entry you've just renamed. Again, it's not always clear that this has happened
• Tag AW: pretty much what's been discussed above. Simply clicking in the field if it says (Varies) results in an irreversible change, and it's not often easy to tell what's happened until it's too late

Please consider revising this, or maybe allow us to set edit type to 'list' for default fields if we prefer it.

[HTPC4ME]

darichman, could you please elaborate on below?

or maybe allow us to set edit type to 'list' for default fields if we prefer it.

would that be the same thing as what keywords/artistS is? tick/check boxes?
If so where does one find that option IF it were available?
Thanks

[darichman]

darichman, could you please elaborate on below?

If you go to Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields... you can click on any fields in the database (default or custom).

When defining a custom field, one of the dropdowns on the right (under 'Data' > 'User Data') is 'Edit Type'. There are a few to choose from, but the two common ones are 'Standard' and 'List'.

'Standard' is what is being used in fields like Artist, Keywords etc > ie you edit the field as a string, but it's displayed as a list.
'List' allows the check-box type editing.

Standard is a quicker way of editing (ie fewer clicks) but can become complicated if you're trying to add multiple values.
List requires more clicks to edit, but allows you to see what you're doing a bit more easily, at least in my opinion.

You'll note for default fields, the option to change the field and edit types are greyed out.

[Grenache]

Please consider revising this, or maybe allow us to set edit type to 'list' for default fields if we prefer it.

Well, I've already +1'ed the original request, but this is more precisely what we need!

[HTPC4ME]

Thanks... Found it.

[MrC]

Here's a puzzle...What expression would combine [Action; Sci fi] and [-Action; Suspense; kids & family; 500 Top Movies] to produce [Suspense; Sci fi; kids & family; 500 Top Movies]? If we can figure that one out, you could use [Genre.+] to remove values from [Genre]. 8)

MrC? ;)

How about something like:

if(Regex([Genre.+,0], /#^(?:(.+?); -|-)([^;]+)(?:; (.+))?$#/),
   listbuild(1, ;/ , Replace(Replace([Genre], [R2],), ;/ ;/ , ;/ ), [R1], [R3]),
   just use combined fields here)

This works by identifying a string such as -Action as an entire item within a list.   It then Replace's that found value out of [Genre].  The additional Replace cleans up any extraneous junk semicolons and spaces from between list items after the removal.  This is all spliced together with listbuild, in the same order presented: Genre, [R1] which is the initial sequence of genres from [Genre.+] and [R3] is its final sequence.

[rick.ca]

WOW! Thanks! Be honest now, did you even break a sweat on this one?

This so cool. Another useful tool for keeping downloaded meta data isolated from the final result (although I wish this was the way things were designed in the first place). I wondered for a bit how this could be extended to do more than just one replacement, then decided it unlikely that would be necessary. I decided it would be more effective to have the expression ignore [Genre] entirely when '-All' is found in [Genre.+].

The screenshot is a (rather goofy) illustration of what can be done with this. My [Genre.x] expression ignores [Genre] and uses the other terms in [Genre.+] when it finds '-All'. It changes all occurrences of 'Romance' to (a more meaningful) 'Mush', and removes 'Family'—so I can decide whether it's something I'd rather (my hypothetical) 'Kids' watched alone. It also adds a 'Top 250' term if there's a value in [Rank.IMDb]. No point in using [Genre.+] to manually change things like these. The result is a [Genre.+] list field where you make the only the changes that have to be done manually. It's list of checkbox items is therefore shorter more efficient to use than if it included all genres.

While this illustrates a useful technique and an important data management concept (keeping source data intact), I'm not advocating this particular application. I find it more effective to get [Genre] from a reliable consistent source (I use IMDb) and leave it alone. Other terms such as 'Adult', 'Family', 'Kids', etc. are easier to maintain and use in a separate [Audience] field. If I didn't have the IMBb Rank, I'd still use a separate field for 'Top 250'. That might be a field that indicates which of a number of lists the movie is on. Or an [Attributes] list where that and any number of unrelated things are tracked (i.e., attributes which don't merit their own field, but are easily maintained together in a list).

[MrC]

WOW! Thanks! Be honest now, did you even break a sweat on this one?

You're welcome.  This one was a little tricky, mostly because of the edge cases, so I'll concede some dampness.

[MrC]

The expression I provided earlier will fail in one case.   Normally we'd solve a problem like this using a substitution, as it makes the problem *much* simpler and more robust.  But we can somewhat emulate the same technique.  Here's a different solution which solves the problem of the missed case, makes the RE easier to read, and concatenates the entire string to work on as one unit.  It needs to place [Genre.+] ahead of [Genre] though. [R2] would be the excluded genre.

If(Regex([Genre.+,0]; [Genre], /#^(.*)-\b([^;]+)\b(.*)\b\2\b(.*)$#/),
   listbuild(1, ;/ ,
      RemoveCharacters([R1], ;/ , 3),
      RemoveCharacters([R3], ;/ , 3),
      RemoveCharacters([R4], ;/ , 3)),
   [Genre.+,0]; [Genre])

[Frobozz]

 
Seeing a regex like this makes me realize how much I quickly forget about regular expressions.  I'd have to pull out a regular expressions book to figure out what that regex is doing.  And I wouldn't be comfortable letting it loose on my library without knowing what it is doing.  That's some crazy stuff.

If I had to do something like this for myself I'd be looking at writing a script in MP3Tag using its scripting language rather than doing a complicated regular expression that makes my head spin.  Or a Python script if MP3Tag turns out to be too limited.

[HTPC4ME]

<<<<<<<<<lost

[rick.ca]

The expression I provided earlier will fail in one case.

Oh, no! I haven't even figured out the first one works.

With this one, I found it necessary to test for the case where [Genre.+] is not used (i.e., using If(IsEmpty([Genre.+]), , [Genre.+,0];) instead of [Genre.+])—or those would start with a ';'. Did your missed case involve the unwanted evil ';'? They drive me nuts!

It needs to place [Genre.+] ahead of [Genre] though.

It depends on the circumstances, but in this application I prefer that the original order be retained—mainly because my [Genre.] (for Video) is an ordered list, and its integrity is better maintained by adding the additional terms to the end of the list.

If I had to do something like this for myself I'd be looking at writing a script in MP3Tag...

That wouldn't be applicable to what we're doing here—creating an expression field that combines two existing data fields. In the case of video files, there wouldn't even be file tags for MP3Tag to operate on.

<<<<<<<<<lost

Hey! The least you could do is follow your own topic. We've brilliantly solved a bunch of problems you didn't even know you had.

[HTPC4ME]

Rick, Guys... i've never once doubted your brilliance!

def following the thread but all a foreign language to me.

[icstm]

I think what we need is a media related RE masterclass somewhere. The wiki is ok for simple things, but makes it hard to break out:

if(Regex([Genre.+,0], /#^(?.+?); -|-)([^;]+)(?:; (.+))?$#/),
   listbuild(1, ;/ , Replace(Replace([Genre], [R2],), ;/ ;/ , ;/ ), [R1], [R3]),

into a understandable pseudo code; if we have that middle step it should be easier.

[rick.ca]

The wiki is ok for simple things, but makes it hard to break out...into a understandable pseudo code.

Use a regex analyzer like Expresso.

[Matt]

I need help understanding the original report.

Could someone provide a step-by-step that makes unexpected changes?

If you change more than 100 files, there's a confirmation.  You can also Undo (Ctrl+Z) if you make a mistake.

Thanks.

[HTPC4ME]

Hi Matt, i had my whole library setup as genre being keywords and artist being artistS

well i read that genre and artist could now have multiple entries in them
so i copied all keywords to genre, and all artistS to artist

after playing with your new get file info.. i noticed that all my kids movies which i had a keyword as kids & family(which were now all moved to genre... were being brought in as JUST family for genre... so i wanted to change all my genres for all those kids and family files to family.

so what i did was the same thing i've been doing with keywords and artistS.. i highlighted all the kids and family in Genre. and then it said (varies) for the tag info (as it does with keywords) and i clicked the down arrow well after clicking the down arrow. it did not show me the ticked boxes or the tags of genre for those files... instead it just wiped all the genre file tags and it automatically chose the first genre tag being 3D.

So basically all my kids and family genre tags that were copied over from keywords were wiped out.. example, batman.. belongs in action, sci fi, kids and family... where as toy story belongs in kids and family - animation, kids and family,

so all those files were wiped cleaned and a new tag of 3D replaced them all...
I got all my files back by just doing a move/copy from keywords back over the top of genre. i'm just glad i didnt wipe out all those files keywords tags, and then re-search get movie info.. because then they would have been gone for good.

Hope this helps.

[rick.ca]

Could someone provide a step-by-step that makes unexpected changes?

In case you missed it...

It's true a field with list-type editing avoids the issue, but the source of the problem is unrelated. It's equally dangerous for any field except those with list-type editing (i.e., including all non-list fields). It may seem like a subtle thing, considering you can abort by pressing <Escape> before <Enter>, or Undo afterwards. But that's beside the point. It shouldn't be selecting the first item by itself—and then not simultaneously changing the edit window from '[Varies]' to the value it has selected. It's possible to look at the drop-down, then abandon the edit—and then assume nothing will be changed because, well, nothing was changed.

Select multiple records. In the tag edit window, select any field (other than a list-type with the list-edit-type enabled) where the value is [Varies]. Click the down-arrow to open the selection list. The first value is automatically selected and it becomes the new value—although the edit box will still indicate '[Varies]'.

This is not a big deal if you understand you shouldn't edit a [Varies] value unless you want to change all records to a common value, and that <Escape> will abort the edit. But if you don't understand the behaviour and perhaps just want to look at the selection list to see what the different values are, it will very likely bite you. I think it's clear the first item should not be automatically selected when the list is viewed.

[darichman]

Also, in pane view:

• filter the view by clicking on an artist in the pane (or any list-field with 'standard' editing for that matter)
• rename that artist entry (F2)
• the entire contents of the artist fields for all files filtered will be changed and other artists in the list removed (ie not just the artist you renamed)

Eg if I have two files with [Artist] values:
  - [Artist]=Air Suply; Fred
  - [Artist]=Air Suply
I note that Air Supply is spelt wrong.
In an artist pane, I will see two artists listed, as MC is treating the ; as a list delimiter:
     Air Suply
     Fred
I click on Air Suply in the pane, and press F2
I rename it to Air Supply
Now the [Artist] field for both files is
  - [Artist]=Air Supply
  - [Artist]=Air Supply

Where has Fred gone?

I think this is dangerous as the user doesn't know it is happening (at least I didn't) until I'd made multiple other changes and it was too late to undo. There is no warning for 'making multiple changes' as only a few files are affected in this example. Fortunately I still had my old custom [Artists] field and restored from that. New users mightn't be so lucky.

In a similar vein, if you enable pane editing and click in a check-box in the panes, it unchecks all the other check-boxes too. This is also unexpected, and not easy to correct if multiple files selected had different list values.

Suggestions (for the standard edit type in list fields)

• if you have multiple files selected, and the field displays 'varies' in the tag AW, clicking once in the field should still say 'varies' (current behaviour). Clicking the down arrow should NOT automatically change the contents of the field to the first entry listed, as once it's done it's not reversible unless you do an 'undo' operation
• renaming a list entry from the panes should just rename that entry in the list, not the entire field contents.
• checking or unchecking boxes in pane tagging should not remove all other checkboxes.

[HTPC4ME]

better explained darichman.. thanks!

[icstm]

Is there a right (or a wrong) way for storing multiple artists for the same title?

[Matt]

In a coming build:
Fixed: If a combobox contained text that wasn't in the droplist, opening and closing the drop list would switch the text to the first item in the list.

[vagskal]

In a coming build:
Fixed: If a combobox contained text that wasn't in the droplist, opening and closing the drop list would switch the text to the first item in the list.

Does this mean that the issue with pane editing a list item (changing a name inside the pane for a list type field) reported above is solved as well?

[HTPC4ME]

 I'm sticking to keywords and artistS. then i will not fear loosing it all being I'm not as advanced as the rest of you. hopefully this at least helps others from mistakenly messing up their libraries.

i'd love to eventually see tick boxes for genre and artist. so that every thing melds well together for tagging and get movie auto importing.


Thanks for helping all.