Topic: BUG: PAL 50Hz refresh rate auto switching it not happening. (Read 11203 times)

stewart_pk · « **on:** August 20, 2012, 07:18:09 pm »

PAL DVD's and ripped PAL DVD's to HDD don't auto switch refresh rate to 50Hz.
I have "Enable Automatic Display Seetings changing" selected and "1920x1080x32x50" selected for PAL.
PAL DVD's ripped to HDD have their FPS tag set to 29.97.

My Windows desktop refresh rate is set to 59.94 (NTSC).

I've tried both XBMC and Arcsoft TMT and they're both capable of auto switching refresh rate to 50Hz from my 59.94 (NTSC) desktop rate and back again.

This really seems to be an ongiong problem (PAL) with JRiver.
I don't see how this should NOT be a fix that requires the highest priority.

NickF · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2012, 01:40:44 am »

Quote from: stewart_pk on August 20, 2012, 07:18:09 pm

PAL DVD's ripped to HDD have their FPS tag set to 29.97.

These need to be changed to 25, assuming they were shot at 25fps.

Auto refresh rate changing for PAL does work. I have been using it for ages.

Nick.

dean70 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2012, 06:15:28 pm »

I have found this as well - not just PAL DVDs, but also 23.976 & 24hz BluRays. The projector always reports 60hz as the refresh rate (same as desktop) regardless of what Enable Automatic Display Seetings is set to. Running AMD A8-3850 with integrated graphics. The EVR renderer properties page will show the correct refresh rate for the content.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2012, 06:53:59 pm »

Quote from: NickF on August 21, 2012, 01:40:44 am

These need to be changed to 25, assuming they were shot at 25fps.

Auto refresh rate changing for PAL does work. I have been using it for ages.

Nick.

Of course it will work if I change it to 25, but this is totally unacceptable.
JRiver should detect the video as PAL and set the FPS to 25.
And what about a PAL DVD rather than a PAL DVD ripped to HDD, can you actually set an FPS for it?
Even if you can, am I seriously expected to do that everytime I pop a DVD in?
Once again XBMC and Arcsoft TMT have no problem.
Obviously JRiver has some some sort of propblem detecting PAL, but this has simply been going on for far too long to be ignored.

Cheers.

NickF · « **Reply #4 on:** August 22, 2012, 01:24:09 pm »

MC relies on tags or fields being populated correctly to do the refresh rate switching for DVDs. MadVR in RedOctober HQ can switch by inspecting the frame rate of the media but does not handle DVDs at present (I think). How did you rip your DVDs and why is the FPS value wrong?

Nick.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #5 on:** August 22, 2012, 08:16:32 pm »

Hello, I rip my DVD's using DVD Fab Passkey as a full disk folder rip (not iso).
The reason that it's wrong is that JRiver is setting it wrong, when it inspects and imports the media, I guess!

Thanks for your replies.

Jong · « **Reply #6 on:** August 23, 2012, 06:52:54 am »

I do not currently use auto rate switching but might fairly soon.

I just checked and I can confirm that all my PAL DVDs, ripped as full discs to a folder using AnyDVD, are incorrectly tagged by MC as 29.97fps. I can also confirm that if the same video_ts.ifo file MC links to is checked using Mediainfo it is reported as 25fps as are the .vob files.

CraigNZ · « **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2012, 01:14:21 pm »

Initially, auto switching sometimes worked and sometimes did not work. I later found that when I started the PC and the AVR was switched off, that the available graphics frame rates did not include 25 Hz which normally would cause my plasma screen to switch to 50 Hz for PAL DVD playback, same with 24Hz switching on bluray movies. To fix this I had to turn on the AVR then restart the PC.

Apparently when MC17 looks to change the frame rate it checks with the video card (in my case Intel 3000 graphics). If the frame rate is not supported then MC17 does not change the frame rate (or maybe this is done by the video card, not sure). So now I always make sure my AVR is powered on first, then the PC.

Hope this helps.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #8 on:** August 25, 2012, 09:43:11 pm »

Bump.

tls62dk · « **Reply #9 on:** August 26, 2012, 06:58:10 am »

Auto switching works correctly in my system, but I can also confirm that all my ripped Pal DVDs (video_ts) are being imported with the incorrectly 29.97 fps. I manually have to correct it to 25 fps afterwards.

TLS

stewart_pk · « **Reply #10 on:** August 27, 2012, 06:52:32 pm »

Bump.

dean70 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 27, 2012, 07:34:34 pm »

What graphics card are you running?

I managed to get refresh rate change working (for DVDs played from disc) by setting the refresh rates in directly in MadVR refresh rate settings page. MadVR Ctrl+J stats screen reports the correct refresh rate detected by the decoder (LAV). I also had to disable scaling in AMD CCC utility to get the rate switch to work.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #12 on:** August 28, 2012, 08:27:08 am »

Hi dean, I'm running an AMD Radeon HD 6450. I've disabled scaling in the AMD CCC utility as you suggested.

Where is the MadVR refresh rate settings page?

Thanks.

Daveyravey · « **Reply #13 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:35:32 pm »

I have a similar problem.. When watching a bluray for example tv switches to 23Hz but when going back to main menu in JRiver sometimes doesn't switch back to 50Hz always ends up either staying at 23 or more strangle changing to 60Hz. I have not set up any of my default auto switching in video settings to set 60 Hz so it must be a new bug in the latest build. Bear in mind this has only just started in the last couple of builds.
Also if PC sleeps and then wakes up it also defaults back to 60 Hz..... Any ideas?

NickF · « **Reply #14 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:55:51 pm »

Quote from: daveyravey1972 on August 28, 2012, 01:35:32 pm

I have a similar problem.. When watching a bluray for example tv switches to 23Hz but when going back to main menu in JRiver sometimes doesn't switch back to 50Hz always ends up either staying at 23 or more strangle changing to 60Hz. I have not set up any of my default auto switching in video settings to set 60 Hz so it must be a new bug in the latest build. Bear in mind this has only just started in the last couple of builds.
Also if PC sleeps and then wakes up it also defaults back to 60 Hz..... Any ideas?

In Tools> Options > Video > Display Settings, did you set the default to 50 fps?

Nick.

NickF · « **Reply #15 on:** August 28, 2012, 02:05:23 pm »

Quote from: stewart_pk on August 28, 2012, 08:27:08 am

Where is the MadVR refresh rate settings page?

Play a movie and right click. Select DirectShow Filters then madVR. Under your device, select Display Modes. The settings are fairly obvious. Don't forget to enter your allowable/required display modes.

Nick.

Daveyravey · « **Reply #16 on:** August 28, 2012, 03:22:36 pm »

yes default settings are set to 50 fps still switches to 60

dean70 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 29, 2012, 07:22:06 am »

Here is an example of the options screen for MadVR for refresh rates http://www.homecinema-hd.com/images/madvr/madvr_display_mode.png

I have had success using 1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p50, 1080p59, 1080p60

get 23.976hz for BluRay, 59.94hz for Interlaced 29.97 (using deinterlace settings in driver, madvr deinterlace disabled to prevent dropped frames), 50hz for 25fps PAL - measured from Projector status screen

stewart_pk · « **Reply #18 on:** August 29, 2012, 07:36:48 am »

Quote from: NickF on August 28, 2012, 02:05:23 pm

Play a movie and right click. Select DirectShow Filters then madVR. Under your device, select Display Modes. The settings are fairly obvious. Don't forget to enter your allowable/required display modes.

"madVR" is not selectable when playing a DVD, only "Enhanced Video Renderer" is.
"madVR" did become selectable when playing an mkv file.
Under the three separate devices I found "display modes".
To the field "list all display modes madVR may switch to" I added 1080p25.
I then played my test PAL DVD again, no change, playing at 59.94 or 60 hertz as indicated my my Panasonic TV.
I repeated the above steps using 1920x1080p25, again no change.
Any further suggestions?

Thanks!

maid · « **Reply #19 on:** August 30, 2012, 05:27:46 pm »

I have disabled this as I am testing a lip synch problem. Has anybody got any ideas??

NickF · « **Reply #20 on:** August 30, 2012, 05:37:24 pm »

Quote from: stewart_pk on August 29, 2012, 07:36:48 am

"madVR" is not selectable when playing a DVD, only "Enhanced Video Renderer" is.
"madVR" did become selectable when playing an mkv file.
Under the three separate devices I found "display modes".
To the field "list all display modes madVR may switch to" I added 1080p25.
I then played my test PAL DVD again, no change, playing at 59.94 or 60 hertz as indicated my my Panasonic TV.
I repeated the above steps using 1920x1080p25, again no change.
Any further suggestions?

Thanks!

Sorry, Stewart. I have most of my DVDs ripped to mkv. madVR does not work with native DVDs at present, as far as I know.

I know you don't like the idea but the only solution to this problem at present is to change the FPS field to 25. Let's hope that JRiver can fix the import problem.

Nick.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #21 on:** August 30, 2012, 06:39:18 pm »

Quote from: NickF on August 30, 2012, 05:37:24 pm

Sorry, Stewart. I have most of my DVDs ripped to mkv. madVR does not work with native DVDs at present, as far as I know.

I know you don't like the idea but the only solution to this problem at present is to change the FPS field to 25. Let's hope that JRiver can fix the import problem.

Nick.

Hey Nick that's OK, I welcome any possible ideas!
Yes I can change the FPS for DVD rips to my HDD but I don't think you can set the FPS for a DVD you just want to play straight from disc.
If anyone knows otherwise please let me know!
I love this product, but I'm a bit disappointed at the silence from the developers on this.
It's almost like it's a very well known problem sitting in the "too hard basket".
JRiver is well behind in detecting and playing PAL content compared to XBMC, Arcsoft TMT and Media Player Classic Home Cinema just to name a few.

Thanks.

dean70 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 31, 2012, 07:25:43 pm »

I tried with the desktop rate in windows set to 50hz, which is a partial work-around as long as the DVD is the first thing played. In the case with MadVR rate switching, it leaves the refresh rate at whatever the setting was after the previous video. Interesting it only resets it back to the desktop (50hz) again when you exit JRiver.

Jong · « **Reply #23 on:** September 01, 2012, 05:21:31 am »

An alternate workaround, until this bug is fixed, is to leave the display @50hz, enable Videoclock and disable refresh rate switching.

MC will then alter the frame rate for all video to be compatible with 50hz. It speeds up bluray and US drama by about 4%, but this is essentially the same speed up applied to all PAL DVDs. It is not ideal, but possibly acceptable for a while.

NickF · « **Reply #24 on:** September 01, 2012, 06:56:02 am »

Quote from: Jong on September 01, 2012, 05:21:31 am

An alternate workaround, until this bug is fixed, is to leave the display @50hz, enable Videoclock and disable refresh rate switching.

MC will then alter the frame rate for all video to be compatible with 50hz. It speed up bluray and US drama by about 4%, but this is essentially the same speed up applied to all PAL DVDs. It is not ideal, but possibly acceptable for a while.

The speed up for Blu-ray might just be acceptable but US recordings at approx 30fps will be speeded down by 17% which is huge and very noticeable.

Nick.

Jong · « **Reply #25 on:** September 01, 2012, 08:32:28 am »

Most US TV stuff I watch is 24p ('quality' drama), so works just like bluray. I suspect this is true for many.

And actually what you say does not happen even for 30p material. 17%, you are right, is too big for speed down, so the player plays it with a 0.1% speed up (29.970 to true 30p) and uses a regular cadence (2:2:1 I think), similar to telecine when playing 24p @60Hz and again, pretty much the same as what has to be done anyway when broadcasting such material in a PAL country. Not ideal, of course, but mostly tolerable.

NickF · « **Reply #26 on:** September 01, 2012, 09:19:06 am »

Quote from: Jong on September 01, 2012, 08:32:28 am

Most US TV stuff I watch is 24p ('quality' drama), so works just like bluray.

Sorry, didn't realise that.

Nick.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #27 on:** September 02, 2012, 12:16:18 am »

Quote from: Jong on September 01, 2012, 05:21:31 am

An alternate workaround, until this bug is fixed, is to leave the display @50hz, enable Videoclock and disable refresh rate switching.

MC will then alter the frame rate for all video to be compatible with 50hz. It speeds up bluray and US drama by about 4%, but this is essentially the same speed up applied to all PAL DVDs. It is not ideal, but possibly acceptable for a while.

Thanks for your response, but I won't be doing this.
This issue should be resolved by the developers of JRiver MC.
I see many new features being added to this software that are completely useless to me.
I've purchased versions 16, 17 and now 18 and I really want this fixed, permanently.
It would be good for product as a whole anyway!
While I'm still alive, hopefully I'll have the will to keep bumping this thread.

Cheers.

Jong · « **Reply #28 on:** September 02, 2012, 02:30:06 am »

I am sure this will be fixed in MC18, if not 17. I too am surprised there has been no dev response here. I can only assume they are too busy coding! Still, I would try just using 50hz. Arguable, even if the bug did not exist, for those used to PAL it is a nicer overall experience than switching display rates. And there are none of the potential AV sync issues some experience @24p when using 50hz.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #29 on:** September 02, 2012, 10:39:29 pm »

No Jong, I don't want to have to manually set my display to 50Hz from 60Hz and back again, everytime I watch a movie.
Plus sound will be well out of pitch playing 23.976Hz content at 25Hz.

Cheers.

Jong · « **Reply #30 on:** September 03, 2012, 02:50:22 am »

That's fine Stewart. I was only ever suggesting you give it a try and even then only until this bug is fixed, which I am 100% sure it will be.

However, just so it is clear for anyone else with a similar issue reading this thread:

- almost all PAL DVDs of movies and US TV are sped up to 25fps without any pitch correction. So when you watch those PAL DVDs which you say you want to play @50Hz you are hearing faster, higher pitch audio.

- MC actually does apply pitch correction the audio when it speeds it up, so when listening to a bluray or US TV recordings @50Hz the audio is faster but the pitch is as in the original recording.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #31 on:** September 04, 2012, 06:55:39 pm »

Quote from: Jong on September 03, 2012, 02:50:22 am

That's fine Stewart. I was only ever suggesting you give it a try and even then only until this bug is fixed, which I am 100% sure it will be.

Hmmm, I wished I shared your enthusiasm and confidence. This problem has been going on for far longer than this thread.

Thanks.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #32 on:** September 06, 2012, 06:26:09 pm »

Bump.

Jong · « **Reply #33 on:** September 07, 2012, 02:24:28 am »

See 18.0.33 here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=73965.0

Matt · « **Reply #34 on:** September 07, 2012, 10:00:00 am »

This build should help:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=74283.0

Do 'Update Library (from tags)' on the files to make sure the correct FPS gets filled.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #35 on:** September 08, 2012, 01:02:33 am »

Thanks very much for this, it appears to be working for PAL DVD's ripped to my HDD.

BUT, only half the problem has been solved! PAL DVD's direct from disk are still not playing at 50Hz.
And the most annoying thing is that even when I set my desktop to 50Hz, JRiver will switch to 59.94Hz when playing a PAL DVD, direct from disk, it must still be detecting it as NTSC.

The only way I can get around this at the moment is to set refresh rate switching to 50Hz for NTSC playback in Display Settings. But doing this of course will mean that when I next play any NTSC content, it'll be displayed at 50Hz rather than 59.94Hz which will result in judder.

Please please fix!

stewart_pk · « **Reply #36 on:** September 13, 2012, 07:10:40 pm »

Bump.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #37 on:** September 18, 2012, 07:59:24 pm »

Bump.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #38 on:** October 02, 2012, 06:45:27 pm »

Bump.

stewart_pk · « **Reply #39 on:** October 04, 2012, 08:39:53 pm »

Bump.

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Author Topic: BUG: PAL 50Hz refresh rate auto switching it not happening. (Read 11203 times)